Coronavirus: General discussion (see opening post for rules)

[bald_pig]

Not the only options though, is it? How about 5 staff who HAVE been vaccinated, and are therefor less likely to give her a disease that may well kill her?

 

The care home isn't instantaneously replacing those 5 members of staff, so your option isn't realistic.

[Andrew_C]

The care home isn't instantaneously replacing those 5 members of staff, so your option isn't realistic.

They wouldn't NEED to be replaced if...

[smurfomatic]

The care home isn't instantaneously replacing those 5 members of staff, so your option isn't realistic.

 

This is exactly what I meant. If "the five" are being let go, it's not like there's a massive group of replacements to choose from.

[mavhc]

They can instantly get a vaccine though

[LeMarchand]

They can instantly get a vaccine though

 

It does take two, spaced by months, to be most effective.

 

Apart from the pre-Covid decision to make employment hard for a huge part of the care home work force, I would imagine that many of those who aren't affected by that are probably less educated than many, and so more prone to believing "Trumpian" Covid/Vaccine "Facts".

 

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS NOT A DENIGRATION OF CARE HOME STAFF, WHO WORK FOR PEANUTS DOING A JOB THAT I DON'T THINK I COULD, AND NOR IS IT TO BE TAKEN AS A SLUR ON THE QUALITY OF CARE THEY PROVIDE.

[smurfomatic]

They can instantly get a vaccine though

 

We're in danger of going round in circles on the personal choice v government legislation angle, but you're (deliberately?) missing the point again. It's not the care workers I'm worried about - they've made their choice, rightly or wrongly, and have to leave their job. It's the people like my grandmother whose care will suffer, and the fact there's already a recruitment crisis in care homes and the NHS, it'll only get worse.

[mavhc]

It's easy to not have a vaccine when there's no penalty (you know, apart from dying, but that's someone else's problem).

 

When you're suddenly homeless turns out you can do your own research (ie watched a video on youtube) to suddenly find the opposite of what you used to believe.

 

Stats update: 5 million dead

6th wave starting

500,000 new cases per day

7000 deaths per day

UK slightly worse than Poland at deaths per capita

 

51.5% of people have received at least one dose

7.4 billion doses given (but it's still not well tested!11!!!)

29 million doses per day. (34 weeks until everyone is at current rate)

 

Covid 19 now the 6th worst pandemic

[Andrew_C]

We're in danger of going round in circles on the personal choice v government legislation angle

Nurses (and others I'm sure) have ALWAYS had to have up to date vaccines. Hell, children attending school do too.

 

The only difference here is loonies touting conspiracy theories.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Andrew_C

[Rob_D]

But surely, by the time someone's been let go it's too late. You have a hole you can't instantly fill. And even if the people who were let go, go out straight away and get vaccinated, there's still a recruitment process they have to go back through, if they even want to go back to the same place that fired them.

However you work it, there's going to be a (hopefully temporary) drop in the people doing these jobs.

[Ditto]

It's easy to not have a vaccine when there's no penalty (you know, apart from dying, but that's someone else's problem).

 

When you're suddenly homeless turns out you can do your own research (ie watched a video on youtube) to suddenly find the opposite of what you used to believe.

 

Stats update: 5 million dead

6th wave starting

500,000 new cases per day

7000 deaths per day

UK slightly worse than Poland at deaths per capita

 

51.5% of people have received at least one dose

7.4 billion doses given (but it's still not well tested!11!!!)

29 million doses per day. (34 weeks until everyone is at current rate)

 

Covid 19 now the 6th worst pandemic

 

When you say 6th worst pandemic, is one of the top 5 including the Bubonic plague in the mid 14th Century?

[Primus]

We're in danger of going round in circles on the personal choice v government legislation angle, but you're (deliberately?) missing the point again. It's not the care workers I'm worried about - they've made their choice, rightly or wrongly, and have to leave their job. It's the people like my grandmother whose care will suffer, and the fact there's already a recruitment crisis in care homes and the NHS, it'll only get worse.

 

Unfortunately on this I think the Government were in a no-win situation. I very much agree that care home staff and NHS staff should be vaccinated - Mav makes a good point about medical staff not trusting science being crazy. If you want to work with vulnerable people then there are standards and having the vaccine seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable one. Remembering that people who cannot have the vaccine on genuine medical grounds are exempt from this, it only affects the people who have made a conscious decision to effectively lose their job - they had enough warning!

 

Sadly there are way too many people out there who are really into their crazy conspiracy theories.

[jmak]

To get onto a nursing (or other healthcare) course you need evidence of vaccination for:

 

Tuberculosis, measles, rubella, hepatitis B, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, polio and meningitis. You have to have evidence of having had chickenpox otherwise you need to get a vaccination for that before you start your course.

 

I really don't see the difference in principle with either the fact it's a different vaccine or that it's employees working with vulnerable people in social care settings.

 

It is highly unfortunate that it's creating a staffing issue for care homes, but I think it's a nettle that needs grasping.

 

Link shows an example, but it's the same everywhere I've looked:

https://www.bournemouth.ac.uk/sites/default/files/asset/document/Vaccination%20requirements%20for%20all%20health%20care%20students%202015.pdf.pdf

[mavhc]

People not getting vaccinated mostly affects people who can't get vaccinated, so I'm sure they're super happy about isolating for also 2 years now, thanks Done My Own Researchers.

 

Then it affects everyone because oh look, the pandemic is still happening, and no businesses bother only letting in vaccinated people, so who knows what you're breathing when inside a building.

 

Remember, if you go inside a building with someone you're breathing not only their air, but the air of everyone they've ever breathed air with. Always wear a mask.

 

And finally it causes more variants, so we'll need new vaccines soon and the cycle will start again.

 

I'm fine with people not getting the vaccine, the problem is we then let them out of their houses. Or even worse, inside businesses filled with other people. Maybe we can send them to live on a farm upstate.

[kennysarmy]

Remember, if you go inside a building with someone you're breathing not only their air, but the air of everyone they've ever breathed air with. Always wear a mask.

 

??? ???

[Garacesh]

??? ???

 

I mean, ignoring the typical Mav flair, the message has some basis in truth.

That's why I hate vapes. It makes me consciously aware of how much air I'm breathing in that has just come out of somebody else's lungs.

[Duranis]

Its off topic but maybe if care homes started offering a decent salary and working conditions these idiots who refuse to put the best interests of the people they are supposed to be caring for would be easier to replace. Pretty much every care home and children's home I have ever come across (and I've been involved with a few) was run for maximum profit above all else. Staff are treated as disposable and worked as hard as they possibly can be.

 

Same deal as the HGV drivers. Make the job not absolute hell and you will be able to find lots of people that want to do the work.

 

Back on topic we had an email come round today encouraging staff to keep more distance, wear masks again and try to be more careful due to the surge in local cases in schools. Wonder how many will listen...

[LeMarchand]

Back on topic we had an email come round today encouraging staff to keep more distance, wear masks again and try to be more careful due to the surge in local cases in schools. Wonder how many will listen...

 

Judging by my schools, not many. The masks come off as soon as the kids go.

[Smee]

Judging by my schools, not many. The masks come off as soon as the kids go.

 

Same here, we've just had this email from the premises staff "It has been very noticeable over the past few weeks that the use of hand sanitiser and sanitising chemicals / materials seems to have become less important and in some areas non existent, this is also the case for hand washing .... this has been confirmed by the frequency of restocking and refilling"

 

No wonder we've got staff dropping daily, children come into school coughing but parents don't want to have their kids tested in case they are positive and the parents have to miss work.

No one gets in my room with out a mask!

[Rob_D]

Our school case numbers are reportedly down into single figures (down from 100+ in September). Edited November 15, 2021 by Rob_D

[localzuk]

We've just postponed the open day at our largest school, as the area is still in amber measures.

[smurfomatic]

Confusion over how many care staff missed deadline

 

So, it appears there's either 953, or 190, or 143 - or maybe more, or less - care home workers in Northamptonshire who have lost their jobs due to lack of vaccination. That's a big variation in numbers!

[LeMarchand]

Confusion over how many care staff missed deadline

 

So, it appears there's either 953, or 190, or 143 - or maybe more, or less - care home workers in Northamptonshire who have lost their jobs due to lack of vaccination. That's a big variation in numbers!

 

IANAS(tatistician) but:

 

NHS data showed 3,439 out of 3,762 staff — nearly nine percent — had not received even one jab. More than 620, nearly 17 percent, were not fully vaccinated.

 

In North Northamptonshire, NHS England says 2,408 out of 2,736 staff in older care homes — around 12 percent — have not been double jabbed.

 

[smurfomatic]

I saw those numbers too, I think they've got them the wrong way round - showing vaccinated rather than unvaccinated - as 3439/3762 is approx 91% and 2408/2736 is approx 88%. Quality local journalism, no longer employing sub-editors to check items before publication.

[BOOT]

The NHS is a massive employer, not all of those are in hospitals etc, interacting with patients. Some staff aren't even in the UK.

[Norphy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-59343987

 

Austria has introduced a full national lockdown for everyone and is making vaccines mandatory from February onwards.

 

I wonder how many nations will follow with both of those?