Coronavirus: General discussion (see opening post for rules)

[mavhc]

Maybe just advertise it as Free Drugs!

 

If you don't want the vaccine, that's fine, but as you hate society, you have to stay at home. Or go live in the Town For The Unvaccinated, population: dropping rapidly

[Duranis]

I'll try to remain non-political, but is there a point where any ruling government in a country should just make vaccines mandatory unless there is a good medical reason not to have it, rather than force large chunks of the population be indirect means?

As insane as I think Anti-vaxers are the idea of Government mandated vaccinations scares the hell out of me. It does make me sound like a tin foil hat wearing nut job but I do not trust that any government has our (individual) best interests at heart. Looking back through not too distant history there have been many Governments that have directly experimented on civilian populations within the last 100 years. Again not wanting to sound like a nut job but I don't trust that a Government would not do the same again if it deemed it worthwhile for the "greater good".

 

Also not wanting to use the slippery slope argument but making vaccinations mandatory does open the door for a lot more invasive yet similar actions to be normalised.

However I do think that having been vaccinated to be able to do certain jobs is acceptable. I also think that being restricted from being able to take part in certain activities without proof of vaccination is also acceptable. If you work in a care job and do not want to do everything you can to protect the people in your care then you should not be doing that job.

 

The issue is where do you draw the lines and how do you have a robust and usable "passport" system?

[Duranis]

Maybe just advertise it as Free Drugs!

If you don't want the vaccine, that's fine, but as you hate society, you have to stay at home. Or go live in the Town For The Unvaccinated, population: dropping rapidly

Honestly I feel the same. However what if next year the Government decide that anyone from a specific ethnicity is a danger to the rest of society so needs to be separated into their own living area "for everyone's protection".

 

Be careful what you wish for and be careful what powers you allow your Government to have over you. (Writing that made me cringe, I'm not sitting here wearing a tinfoil hat, I swear!).

[Andrew_C]

How do you think the world got rid of Smallpox??

 

And you do realize that without a suite of vaccines, you don't get into school in 'merca?

Edited October 5, 2021 by Andrew_C

[mavhc]

Honestly I feel the same. However what if next year the Government decide that anyone from a specific ethnicity is a danger to the rest of society so needs to be separated into their own living area "for everyone's protection".

 

Be careful what you wish for and be careful what powers you allow your Government to have over you. (Writing that made me cringe, I'm not sitting here wearing a tinfoil hat, I swear!).

 

How does X lead to Y?

 

Can't leave the house because everywhere might be a slippery slope?

 

If you didn't want a mandatory vaccination policy, like France, then you shouldn't have been so stupid, like anti vax people in France.

 

Some countries, such as Italy and France, have mandatory

vaccination policies in place, an overview of which is provided on pages

43-48. In response to falling vaccination rates, some countries (including

Italy) have extended existing mandatory vaccination programmes, or

introduced them for the first time, such as in Germany. Some policies

criminalise vaccine refusal, such as by fining parents, or make access to

services – like state-run schools – contingent on immunisation status.

 

Putting on seatbelts is a law, and the chance of you flying out of your car and killing someone else is super low.

 

In Australia, for example, under the national “no jab, no pay”

legislation, a child must meet the immunisation requirements set out in

the National Immunisation Program Schedule in order receive child care

fee assistance

 

In France: Coverage increased for

all vaccines for children born in 2018 compared with children born in

2017. For example, hepatitis B coverage increased from 90.5% to

96.3%, the first does of meningitis C coverage increased from 35.5%

to 75.8% and the first dose of measles, mumps and rubella (MMR)

increased from 86.2% to 87.6%

 

the proportion of the French population in favour of mandatory vaccination

increased from 49% in 2017 to 63% in 2019

[jmak]

I don't usually use football managers as lifestyle guides, but Jurgen Klopp says it pretty well for me:

 

“If I say I am vaccinated, other people say: ‘How can you tell me I should be vaccinated?’ It is a little bit like drink-driving. We all probably were in a situation where we had a beer or two and thought we still could drive but, [because of] the law, we are not allowed to drive so we don’t drive. But this law is not there for protecting me when I drink two beers and want to drive, it’s for protecting all the other people because I’m drunk and we accept that as a law."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/oct/02/liverpool-jurgen-klopp-says-anti-vaxxers-endanger-others?

 

I'm still amazed at the fuss there's been about mandating vaccines for healthcare workers; you can't get on a nursing course without proving immunity to a ready of diseases (most of which is only realistically attainable by vaccine in this country), never mind a job. Why should covid be any different?

[6Foot2]

Link:

 

 

[Ditto]

Vaccine data now includes all 12+ year olds. Current first dose percentage is 85.3%. It shouldn't be, but it's a bit annoying not to have hit 90% milestone when it was 16+; we were so close! In some ways, a milestone of limited value, but would have been good to see it reached.

 

The level of uptake in this range is going to be interesting to watch given the preamble. My kids school have now processed permissions, so school vaccinations seem to starting to move a bit faster.

 

On cases in general, comparing against previous weekdays, shows the reduction for about a week has turned and we now have a couple of days of rising numbers. It's still be yo-yoing, but at high numbers. Today, a Thursday, we see over 40,000 - that's only happened 4 other times (on a Thursday), once in July and the other 3 in December/January when the numbers were at all time highs. On the positive side, healthcare numbers are holding steady.

 

One anomaly I've not yet got my head around; the weekly deaths on certificate, by date registered, has been steadily rising since mid June, where it was just below 100, but now is showing over 1,110 for the end of September. The same isn't reflected in the 28 day numbers. Am I missing something or are a lot more deaths happening after 28 days now?

[the_quick]

You can't get into many African countries without yellow fever jab. And we already have mandates against actions that can hurt people, like seatbelts, crash helmets, no smoking in the car with children etc.

So another one, to stop spreading of a deadly disease - bring it on, or it will stay dangerous forever, constantly mutating

[mavhc]

One anomaly I've not yet got my head around; the weekly deaths on certificate, by date registered, has been steadily rising since mid June, where it was just below 100, but now is showing over 1,110 for the end of September. The same isn't reflected in the 28 day numbers. Am I missing something or are a lot more deaths happening after 28 days now?

 

Better to compare Daily deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate by date of death

with Weekly deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate by date registered

 

7 day average for daily is 150, weekly is 1108, 150*7 = 1050

[mikeprice]

We went o my sister-in-law's house yesterday and the subject of vacines came up because Mrs mikeprice had just had her Covid booster

 

the 20 year old niece has had her vacines - which is good becaue she is just the type to not have it due to $stuffsaidonfacebook

 

her reason - because I want to go out to clubs and stuff and go on holiday

nothing about the possibility of getting it and bringing it home to her Mum and Dad - especially as her Dad is diabetic and seems to have a bunch of other stuff as a result - so getting Covid could be serious

but no - need it to go out and on holiday

 

whatever it takes!!

 

 

 

BTW - if anyone is worried about rising fuel bills and is looking for ways to save money

 

now is an excellent time to tell the kids Santa didn't make it through Covid

 

you're welcome

[mavhc]

In an entirely unpredictable state of events,1 in 14 secondary school children infected https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/08/covid-rates-rising-in-secondary-schools-in-england-ons-data-shows

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/07/england-vaccine-just-plus-europe-covid Why is England so rubbish at preventing infections?

 

Also we're terrible at rolling out vaccines for them https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/09/delays-covid-jabs-teens-christmas-period-headteachers-vaccinations

Edited October 9, 2021 by mavhc

[mikeprice]

I saw a mention of a website on a local newspaper comments section - seemed to be from an anti-vaxer

 

so I went to look

 

VERY well done - initial shock headlines and follow up showing why this is true

justified by details in VERY small font size going on over several pages

including data extracted from proper ONS sites

 

thing is - they were using numbers in a very clever manner - showing percentages not numbers - so - in this case - a small number of kids 12-15 died in a specific period in 2020

then there was a small increase in 2021 in the same 6 months were they stared vaccinating that age group

but a small increase over a small number gives a large percentage

so they could claim big increases when the data (when you find it) showed no such thing

 

Scary thing is how well done it was - and how they deliberately used ONS data in such a clever way in order to show what they wanted

I followed the links they gave - they linked to ONS sites and documents which were very technical, detailed and long - many many pages long before you found the data they had mentioned

 

 

I came to the conclusion that this confirmed my thoughts that this sort of article is created by people who deliberately mess with the data in order to create a narrative that suits their aim

and not by true believers who are biased

it was just to well done

must have been done by professionals with a deliberate aim

 

This sort of thing then convinces people who become believers and post stuff on FaceGram or whatever

 

I will not say what the website was to make sure it doesn't get publicity or hits - even on here I don't think it should be mentioned directly

 

and, of course, I went back and reported the comment that mentioned it on the newspaper website - I checked later and it had been removed

[mikeprice]

Just a warning

 

On another thread that I frequent (yes - I know - sorry) a few people are reporting trying to remove anti-vax posters and finding they have been booby trapped with razor blades

mostly someone has gone to the trouble of separating the blades from a multi blade razor to make them more difficult to detect

 

AT least they had been placed too high up a a kid to get to them

 

I have heard of this before but it was more of an Urban Myth

this seems more real

 

 

be careful out there folks!

[Theblacksheep]

Without vaccines, life expectancy would be in the 40s.

 

When the next one hits, a lot of people are going to die because some people want to freedom to spread disease to others.

 

The monetisation of popularity on social media is a bigger problem than people imagine. A lot of them don't actually believe the rubbish they are spouting, but it makes them money.

[Garacesh]

Without vaccines, life expectancy would be in the 40s.

 

When the next one hits, a lot of people are going to die because some people want to freedom to spread disease to others.

We can only hope the next pandemic can be properly vaccinated against.

 

I mean ideally, people wise up and learn about diseases, how they spread, how vaccines work, etc, and opt to not spread misinformation at all, but I don't believe that's going to happen.

I suspect the best we can hope for is that it's a disease whereby those that choose to keep doing as they're doing aren't still putting those that do the sensible thing at risk.

[mavhc]

New vaccine to stop misinformation spreading https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/businessman-with-sticky-tape-on-his-mouth-picture-id184947798

[6Foot2]

New vaccine to stop misinformation spreading https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/businessman-with-sticky-tape-on-his-mouth-picture-id184947798

 

New vaccine: Ineffective!

 

You don't need to use your voice to spread misinformation via Twitter, Facebook, etc.

[mavhc]

New vaccine: Ineffective!

 

You don't need to use your voice to spread misinformation via Twitter, Facebook, etc.

 

There's no stock images of fingers taped together to stop typing, maybe that's the problem

[6Foot2]

There's no stock images of fingers taped together to stop typing, maybe that's the problem

Hmm. Tape together the fingers of those who would generate misleading material online to prevent them from doing so.

 

As effective as the vaccine proposed earlier!

 

[jthompson]

Maybe a swarm of Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp bots that seek out sources of misinformation and sate them with waves of phantom popularity, leaving human users relatively unbothered by recommendations? I'm not sure what's in it for the platforms, though.

[Slarty66]

We can only hope the next pandemic can be properly vaccinated against.

 

I mean ideally, people wise up and learn about diseases, how they spread, how vaccines work, etc, and opt to not spread misinformation at all, but I don't believe that's going to happen.

I suspect the best we can hope for is that it's a disease whereby those that choose to keep doing as they're doing aren't still putting those that do the sensible thing at risk.

We have three friends that just won't get vaccinated. One says they are healthy and go to the gym therefore they won't catch it!

One is scared because of the chance of blood clots and one because they just don't feel it's right for them at the moment! The last one really surprised me as they are a teacher!

A friend we know did not get the vaccine due to friends telling him to get it done with other people telling them not to. In the end they got so confused they didn't.

They nearly died. Caught Covid had two blood clots in their legs. While in hospital they were told that they would probably not survive.

Luckily they pulled through but they are very ill still. It could be months even years before they can work again.

Even after telling our friends about this they still are refusing to be vaccinated.

There is a very high chance that another more dangerous pandemic could surface in the future.

[Norphy]

Today’s Penny Arcade

 

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2021/10/15

 

[Garacesh]

Today’s Penny Arcade

 

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2021/10/15

 

 

Seen a lot of that on facebook groups. Cinema chains and the like. "I was going to come and see $Film but now I don't think I'll bother!" and it's.. Okay? You weren't going to see $Film anyway, because they've just told you they wouldn't have let you in. Why do you think this is a victory?

[Andrew_C]

Well, following a positive LFT and a negative within an hour on Tuesday, I've had my + PCR.

 

I do hope you lot are going to be posting lots of informative / entertaining things over the next few days.