Coronavirus: General discussion (see opening post for rules)

[StevieM]

Well, following a positive LFT and a negative within an hour on Tuesday, I've had my + PCR.

 

I do hope you lot are going to be posting lots of informative / entertaining things over the next few days.

 

Oooff! Sorry to hear that. Look on the bright side; at least it wasn't the Friday before half-term!* May your symptoms be mild and your isolation productive/relaxing^.

 

(^delete as preferable)

 

(*or is it? I hope not.)

[JSpaced]

One says they are healthy and go to the gym therefore they won't catch it!

 

One is scared because of the chance of blood clots

 

one because they just don't feel it's right for them at the moment!

 

A friend we know did not get the vaccine due to friends telling him to get it done with other people telling them not to. In the end they got so confused they didn't.

.

Just to make sure I've got this clear:

 

One guy thinks his muscles will stop the itty bitty virus. (Judo chop! Benchpress the immune system!)

 

One doesn't understand that the chance of a blood clot from birth control (or a hemorrhage from GIVING birth) is way higher?

 

One thinks that the virus has a timetable! ("Oh, I'm the popular character in the franchise. I get bit by zombies in the SECOND film, not the first.")

 

The last one can't even serve as an example to the other three?

 

I've seen it on Twitter (so pinch of salt) but a nurse recalling the last words of SEVERAL Covid patients as "Please can I have the vaccine" and her having to tell them "it's too late".

 

But frustratingly they aren't alone and they're being egged on by people who should know better. We're going to either get another lockdown or people will be dying at home because no-one will do another lockdown.

[jthompson]

We're going to either get another lockdown or people will be dying at home because no-one will do another lockdown.

 

I can't image that another lockdown for COVID in the UK would see anything even remotely like the level of compliance of earlier ones. Even the possibility of it floating about in public discourse would set half the country hard against it before it got very close to happening.

[pooley]

Surely we are past the need for Lockdowns? 2 vaccine jabs with the possibility of a 3rd, normality has to happen.

[JSpaced]

Surely we are past the need for Lockdowns? 2 vaccine jabs with the possibility of a 3rd, normality has to happen.

 

So not everyone CAN be jabbed. Not everyone WANTS to be jabbed. A chunk of people are objecting to a: being jabbed and b: being told that being jabbed is a prerequisite for using a facility.

 

So people are still transmitting the virus in the thousands daily and immuno-compromised people are continuing to be pushed into further and further isolation so that other people don't feel "put out", "uncomfortable" or "being tracked by Bill Gates". (They will of course sacrifice ALL of their privacy to tell everyone this on social media.)

 

As a comparison (and there are mitigating factors) New Zealand's new cases daily are in the TENS with spikes of nearly 80 a day.

 

New cases in the UK are in the TENS OF THOUSANDS. Even given the comparative size of population etc. etc. even as a per capita number, it's a massive difference. ALSO: these are only the people reporting and NOT the people who "feel a bit peaky, still gonna go coach synchronised swimming" or whatever.

[Slarty66]

Just to make sure I've got this clear:

 

One guy thinks his muscles will stop the itty bitty virus. (Judo chop! Benchpress the immune system!)

 

One doesn't understand that the chance of a blood clot from birth control (or a hemorrhage from GIVING birth) is way higher?

 

One thinks that the virus has a timetable! ("Oh, I'm the popular character in the franchise. I get bit by zombies in the SECOND film, not the first.")

 

 

The last one can't even serve as an example to the other three?

 

I've seen it on Twitter (so pinch of salt) but a nurse recalling the last words of SEVERAL Covid patients as "Please can I have the vaccine" and her having to tell them "it's too late".

 

But frustratingly they aren't alone and they're being egged on by people who should know better. We're going to either get another lockdown or people will be dying at home because no-one will do another lockdown.

Too true sadly, I only hope they come to their senses.

[pooley]

So not everyone CAN be jabbed. Not everyone WANTS to be jabbed. A chunk of people are objecting to a: being jabbed and b: being told that being jabbed is a prerequisite for using a facility.

 

So people are still transmitting the virus in the thousands daily and immuno-compromised people are continuing to be pushed into further and further isolation so that other people don't feel "put out", "uncomfortable" or "being tracked by Bill Gates". (They will of course sacrifice ALL of their privacy to tell everyone this on social media.)

 

As a comparison (and there are mitigating factors) New Zealand's new cases daily are in the TENS with spikes of nearly 80 a day.

 

New cases in the UK are in the TENS OF THOUSANDS. Even given the comparative size of population etc. etc. even as a per capita number, it's a massive difference. ALSO: these are only the people reporting and NOT the people who "feel a bit peaky, still gonna go coach synchronised swimming" or whatever.

 

While I feel for those who are unable to have the vaccine for medical reasons I have no sympathy for the anti-vaxxer/flat earth type of people who are ignorant to their own and other peoples health by choosing not to have it. In thier case i'm firmly in the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" camp.

[jmak]

While I feel for those who are unable to have the vaccine for medical reasons I have no sympathy for the anti-vaxxer/flat earth type of people who are ignorant to their own and other peoples health by choosing not to have it. In thier case i'm firmly in the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" camp.

Agreed. The problem is that they're clogging up our healthcare system. And, despite them often being the same people complaining about restrictions on freedom, are delaying return to normality.

[JSpaced]

While I feel for those who are unable to have the vaccine for medical reasons I have no sympathy for the anti-vaxxer/flat earth type of people who are ignorant to their own and other peoples health by choosing not to have it. In thier case i'm firmly in the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" camp.

 

They often don't get the booby prize though. They share that around. It's really frustrating because they WANT a "live and let live policy" and what they're actually angling for is a "live and kill random people, but who cares, are they related to me? Well maybe, but you can't pin that on me, I wanna go down the pub!"

[mavhc]

We're not currently doing enough as it's not going down, if we did a bit more it would go down, and then we'd save the lives of 100 people every day, and probably another 500 who'll have long term health problems. Not acting now means 10000s more people in trouble for years to come, and 1000s more dead.

 

Doesn't mean you need a full lockdown, if you only want to stop killing people for no reason slowly then you can just increase protective measures a bit.

[jmak]

Which is demonstrated by Japan. They were having a disaster, then hosted the Olympics and were in an officially declared state of emergency.

 

Their vaccine programme had started to bite, but importantly, they are almost universally wearing masks, bars are open but hours are restricted and their cases have plummeted. Restrictions are being gradually lifted, but because they are still doing some carefully targeted things, they're getting freedom and declining infection/death rates.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/13/back-from-the-brink-how-japan-became-a-surprise-covid-success-story

 

Edit: I think "the public" has decided that what we currently have is an acceptable compromise between restrictions and deaths. I'm not sure if they've really thought it through as 35,000 to 50,000 deaths per year indefinitely.

Edited October 15, 2021 by jmak

[Ditto]

We're not currently doing enough as it's not going down, if we did a bit more it would go down, and then we'd save the lives of 100 people every day, and probably another 500 who'll have long term health problems. Not acting now means 10000s more people in trouble for years to come, and 1000s more dead.

 

Doesn't mean you need a full lockdown, if you only want to stop killing people for no reason slowly then you can just increase protective measures a bit.

I agree with this. Even if it's not enforceable by legislation, if the government was more in line with much of Europe requiring mask wearing, supporting home working and more cautious with large gatherings, I think we'd be in a better place. If the conclusion this is 'living with the virus', the idea of the current levels of cases, hospitalisations, death is very disagreeable. Perhaps a degree of herd immunity through vaccination (including third jabs) and infection in the younger age ranges will at some point see the numbers reduce, but it doesn't look like that's happening anytime soon.

[Andrew_C]

The BIG problem we have is that whatever 'policy' the Govt announce, it has got to be clearly articulated, achievable, and enforced.

 

I think C19 might be going to my head...

[Slarty66]

While I feel for those who are unable to have the vaccine for medical reasons I have no sympathy for the anti-vaxxer/flat earth type of people who are ignorant to their own and other peoples health by choosing not to have it. In thier case i'm firmly in the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" camp.

Well after my post about people not having the vaccine I heard on Friday that the bass player from a band I played in the late 80's has just died from Covid.

Only 54 he wasn't vaccinated.....

Talking to another friend, his wifes friends mum and dad anti-vaxxers, the father caught Covid and died last week.

What more can I say to people I know that won't get vaccinated.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Slarty66

[kennysarmy]

Well after my post about people not having the vaccine I heard on Friday that the bass player from a band I played in the late 80's has just died from Covid.

Only 54 he wasn't vaccinated.....

Talking to another friend, his wifes friends mum and dad anti-vaxxers, the father caught Covid and died last week.

What more can I say to people I know that won't get vaccinated.

 

It won't matter what you say.

[jthompson]

It won't matter what you say.

 

Yup, especially if they're of the opinion that the vaccine is less effective than 'natural immunity', fresh vegetables or aerobic exercise.

[Slarty66]

Yup, especially if they're of the opinion that the vaccine is less effective than 'natural immunity', fresh vegetables or aerobic exercise.

Too true! My younger son had Covid ,both me and my wife have been double vaccinated. His PCR test positive, both ours negative.

I'm sure it wasn't 'natural immunity' that stopped us contacting the virus.

I just wish our friends would listen. I don't want to have to go to another funeral....

[jthompson]

On the subject of 'natural immunity', this arstechnica article covers it nicely. https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/10/prior-infection-vs-vaccination-why-everyone-should-get-a-covid-19-shot/

 

TLDR: prior exposure to the virus might give you the same level of immunity as a vaccine, but far less predictably so.

[Ditto]

BBC finally report in more depth on the high case rate https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58954793

 

I do feel the media haven't really shone a light up on the continued high, growing case rate and the impact it is having, even allowing for the hugely successful vaccine programme. Whilst hospital numbers are manageable right now, they are a long way from desirable and backlogs are ever growing - let alone the on-going impact on the dedicated NHS staff. I suspect we will see a 50k daily figure very soon and it'll flare up again with the wider media.

[jmak]

I listened to "A Life Scientific" interviewing Sir Patrick Vallance https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09yckyr

 

Personally prepared to give him quite a lot of leeway the circumstances he had to work in. His view, which I largely share, is that the biggest reason for poor decision making was a complete lack of understanding of exponential growth. Far to few people - politicians, policy advisors, general public - have sufficient grasp of it to make timely decisions.

 

I think maths education needs completely revisiting. Currently it mostly covers the groundwork for further scientific study (and from personal experience is only partly successful at that) and has far too little emphasis on maths that affects day to day life. Interpretation of statistics (so you've got some hope of spotting when politicians of all varieties and the media are lying) and personal finances would seem more useful to most people.

[mikeprice]

Today's briefing suggested that we should be thinking of including a Lateral Flow Test as part of our weekly routine

 

which seems sensible as it is starting to sound like that test is good at finding if you have the virus NOW whereas the PCR test looks for different things and can give a +ve if you had it a week or two ago

 

 

If they continue to give them away free outside Tesco and push the 'test yourself every week just in case' concept

then it might just make a difference

 

assuming people are honest

[Ditto]

Today's briefing suggested that we should be thinking of including a Lateral Flow Test as part of our weekly routine

 

which seems sensible as it is starting to sound like that test is good at finding if you have the virus NOW whereas the PCR test looks for different things and can give a +ve if you had it a week or two ago

 

 

If they continue to give them away free outside Tesco and push the 'test yourself every week just in case' concept

then it might just make a difference

 

assuming people are honest

 

I think's a fairly decent idea. We tend to do them if visiting grandparents. Work ask us too if we go in which for me is rarely. It's not 100%, but so much of this is about odds. I thought the press were pretty gentle with them given current state of affairs. I did appreciate the honest reply to the question about the House of Lords not following guidance.

[Rob_D]

Today's briefing suggested that we should be thinking of including a Lateral Flow Test as part of our weekly routine

Huh. I thought we'd been doing twice weekly LFD tests since last March? We get all ours through the school, apparently they've got the new LFD kits that only need nose samples now.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Rob_D

[Ditto]

Huh. I thought we'd been doing twice weekly LFD tests since last March? We get all ours through the school, apparently they've got the new LFD kits that only need nose samples now.

@mikeprice and I are currently outside of school employment. You're right about the new LFD kits - I think I participated in a pre-launch trial. It's certainly nice to avoid putting the swab to the back of your throat! One of my kids came home with a pack from school recently, but not the other - no idea why. I haven't read the paperwork, but do they give a result in less than 30 minutes? The old ones always showed a successful test within a few minutes, but I always understood you need to wait 30 minutes. Fortunately I haven't seen a positive test yet, but wondered if the 'C' shows before the 'T'.

[elsiegee40]

I am outside school employment and Mr gee40 and I have been doing our LFTs twice weekly since forever. It’s not difficult to get hold of them and just do the tests.

 

Fortunately, so far, they have always been negative. We are not assuming they will continue this way. Close friends of ours doing similar tested positive last week. Neither seems to have ben particularly ill, but they’re both wiped out. Luckily we haven’t met face to face with them for several weeks.