London Riots

[Stuart_C]

It's very easy to assing blame. Really the only blame should be assigned to the people doing the rioting and looting!

 

Yes things could be done better by governments but it's very easy to look back and say that x made mistakes.

 

I have my own thought on government in general but to me the biggest issues is with society. In general far too many people have the attitude "what can ssociety do for me" instead of "what can I do for society".

 

I was brought up to understand that if you want something you work for it. Everything I have I worked for and there is loads of things I want but I know that I will need to work to get them. I hope I raise my child the same way.

 

 

/RamblingThoughts

 

P.s. Having a day off and watching batman. There might be something in this...

[mattx]

I love reading all the knee jerk reactions - puts a smile on my face.

[Theblacksheep]

BBC News - Injured boy mugged during disturbances in London

 

Absolutely ridiculous. How long before the army arrive - shame we aren't in Northern Ireland, they would be there by now.

 

Chris

 

Irish history would suggest the British Army made the problems (far worse than riots) intensify for decades. Who wants to learn from history when there's some large sweeping statements to make?

[MK-2]

Irish history would suggest the British Army made the problems (far worse than riots) intensify for decades. Who wants to learn from history when there's some large sweeping statements to make?

 

Perhaps the difference here being the British Army would be in a British city in England that isn't under dispute by another country with sectarian violence, just mindless idiots?

Otherwise wouldn't it be like saying the army shouldn't be on the streets of London as look how it ended up in Iraq?

[Theblacksheep]

Scotland Yard reporting the man shot (don't know who by) last night has died. RIP.

[Butters]

Scotland Yard reporting the man shot (don't know who by) last night has died. RIP.

 

Didn't say whether he was a looter or not.

 

If it carries on tonight, expect more deaths as I've seen the shops in the area I work (Islington) already arming themselves in case it spreads towards here.

 

The local JD sports has closed its doors and barricaded the windows up and won't be opening all week.

[Haptic]

Well said MK-2.

 

I am not saying lets round them up and shoot them, in fact far from it. However, in a case of serious civil unrest and where the fire brigade are being stopped from putting a blaze out which is endangering British Citizens surely the lads we pay to be abroad and implement democracy would be bettter off protecting and upholding it here.

 

In regards to Northern Ireland blacksheep, I was under the impression the army were sent in after the police couldn't carry out their job in containing the situation that had gotten well out of hand. Does it not look pretty similar to you?? All I have seen so far are the emergency services being over stretched and being chased away from serious situations.

 

Chris

[Hightower]

Not targeting your point directly (bit more general and sweeping but hey!).

 

The police are there to protect the people and keep the law and order - they are trained to handle complex situations on the streets of the UK.

The Army/Military are there to protect the nation from other nations through the deployment of weapons - they are trained to handle complex situations on the streets of other nations. Indeed if you are a detachment of 30 men and you have a large force coming towards you your next move is to lay down as much fire as possible and reach for the RAF to rain down an air strike.

 

So although the Army wouldn't go in with weapons they would go in with the wrong training/experience for the situation.

 

I'm sure many members of the military would like to help - after all they feel a strong enough link to the country to fight for it but that doesn’t mean they signed up to start policing the streets.

 

Erm, that is completely incorrect. The army are there to use as desired by the head honcho's. They are trained to dealing with our streets if they so need to. The police do not have the equipment that the army has to handle things like this.

[featured_spectre]

Part of military duties involves martial law and policing streets.

 

*edit*

 

This came as part of my bct and I am sure others can confirm.

[jamesfed]

Part of military duties involves martial law and policing streets.

 

*edit*

 

This came as part of my bct and I am sure others can confirm.

 

And what has their training been focoused on most recently? Fighting in Afgan - yes indeed to many senses training and policing out there as well however its a whole diffrent world here in the UK.

 

To that degree as well who has the better training to police the UK streets? The Police or the Army? as such should we not use the forces that are best suited to the current needs.

[Hightower]

And what has their training been focoused on most recently? Fighting in Afgan - yes indeed to many senses training and policing out there as well however its a whole diffrent world here in the UK.

 

To that degree as well who has the better training to police the UK streets? The Police or the Army? as such should we not use the forces that are best suited to the current needs.

 

The army are trained no differently (at first) to what they were long before the days of afghan and iraq. Basic training is much the same. The army have additional training for the likes of iraq before they go over, but that doesn't mean that can no longer effectively control our own country.

 

I've just learned about Server 2008, but I'm still going to have to know how to handle 2003.

 

If you can't sort something in your school, what do you do? I expect like many schools you'll escalate it in some way - advice from the LEA, or a 3rd party consultant, but one thing is for sure - you won't just let it be will you? Why can't the police do that too? Everybody needs some form of escalation - when the police don't have the equipment, why should they go and buy it and train in it when we already have a service which can provide that support? Next you'll be wanting the police to put out the fires, because they were caused by criminals.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Hightower

[jamesfed]

The army are trained no differently (at first) to what they were long before the days of afghan and iraq. Basic training is much the same. The army have additional training for the likes of iraq before they go over, but that doesn't mean that can no longer effectively control our own country.

 

I've just learned about Server 2008, but I'm still going to have to know how to handle 2003.

 

I'm looking wayy beyond basic here and more at pre deployment training.

The basics may be there but not recently practiced (or put into practice for those who have come back from deployment) in the right context.

[JJonas]

Social networking being put to good use. I wonder if the media will report this...

 

Catch A Looter

[jamesfed]

Further to that and using your 2003 and 2008 part - I know precisely where many settings are in 2008 and this can translate back fine to 2003 (which indeed I have used as well) however because I'm used to using 2008 it might take a second or two longer for me to figure out just where that setting is.

 

In a IT situation that’s no biggy - however put that in a fast moving riot....that one or two second longer of thought/action could mean a big difference between putting someone down hard on the ground and restraining them and putting someone hard down on the ground and cracking their skull.

[Theblacksheep]

In regards to Northern Ireland blacksheep, I was under the impression the army were sent in after the police couldn't carry out their job in containing the situation that had gotten well out of hand. Does it not look pretty similar to you??

 

It does look similar. My point being, how well was that chaotic situation in a British City handled by the army?

[JJonas]

From Twitter

 

lots of tweets about this

 

ALERT: gangs forming in london fields right now and en route to hackney town hall. Stay Away! #Hackney

[simpsonj]

I just can't believe people are advocating a "shoot to kill" policy. These are 14-20 year olds, do you really think that the sight of a dead 14 year old girl broadcasted around the world is a good thing? You can argue all you want about how this started, whether they are just "mindless thugs" (which just seems to be a nice way dehumanising these people), and whether the government is to be blamed, but to say we should just kill them strikes me as appalling.

 

Yes, it should stop. Yes the police could be using more force, and definitely need more numbers and reassert their authority, but how could you trust them again if they just opened fire into a crowd, killing indiscrimanently.

[localzuk]

whether they are just "mindless thugs" (which just seems to be a nice way dehumanising these people)

 

I agree with your other comments but this is ridiculous - how else do you describe these people!? They are mindless thugs, no question about it.

[JJonas]

London and UK riots day three aftermath: live coverage | UK news | guardian.co.uk

 

Great picture

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pixel-eight/6024429000/

Edited August 9, 2011 by JJonas

[mthomas08]

Surely the army are trained to deal with civil unrest? I see the adverts enough and its not just about guns blazing but also "Peace Keeping", sorting out evacuating Civi's and tons more - seen the adverts over the years? I could write a long list of what they deal with. They deal with possible hostile situations all the time? which pretty much is what's happening over here. We need to stop pampering the thugs and deal with them in a way they actually understand - A club over the head or a gun in their face. Sorry to sound a bit OTT but when criminals (Yes they are Criminals for what they are doing) cause things like this then we should be showing them the full force of the police/army if we have to and stop sugar coating the yobs. Kind of moments like this I have zero sympathy for gang members who do get shot.

 

Reading the sun there is a video of a woman shouting saying she is disgusted at them and ashamed to be from Hackney and what not. More and more people will end up dead and not the yobs but the innocent people who decide to defend their business's and homes/belongings and the yobs deserve NO human rights. Moments like this I think the cops should be armed with guns just like the yanks.

[featured_spectre]

And what has their training been focoused on most recently? Fighting in Afgan - yes indeed to many senses training and policing out there as well however its a whole diffrent world here in the UK.

 

To that degree as well who has the better training to police the UK streets? The Police or the Army? as such should we not use the forces that are best suited to the current needs.

 

Actually we were taught to police "European and Western world" streets as part of a NATO initiative (as are most NATO Armies), and the training was top notch - Riot control, maintain order, provide emergency services, and general policing (alongside local police complying with local laws).

[MK-2]

These are 14-20 year olds, do you really think that the sight of a dead 14 year old girl broadcasted around the world is a good thing?

whether they are just "mindless thugs" (which just seems to be a nice way dehumanising these people)

 

my initial comment of shoot to kill was said tongue in cheek, but obviously in such a heated forum it can be overlooked so i apologise for that. i still stand by the fact that a much harder stance should be taken.

and yes they are mindless thugs (look at the video of a group of them robbing a man who had been injured). if you want to protest over this mans death, protest. in the same sense if you wanted to protest over student fees, protest.

but if your sole intention is to loot, riot, cause harm and destruction, you are a thug, a criminal and closer to savage animals than humans (so yes, it is dehumanising them, but from their actions they have done that themselves)

[simpsonj]

I agree with your other comments but this is ridiculous - how else do you describe these people!? They are mindless thugs, no question about it.

 

Because I could equally describe them as teenagers, sons, daughters, nieces, nephews. When you say you want to kill a "mindless thug" it sounds justified. However saying you want to kill someone's teenage son or daughter, it doesn't sound quite as justified, it sounds like murder.

 

I'm not saying what they are doing is right, far from it, but I think people need to be reminded that these are still people. Uneducated, and by the sounds of the two teenage girls the BBC have interviewed, mind bogglingly self centred, but surely we have to ask why they have these views, and not just shoot them because of those views.

[JJonas]

from Twitter

 

Hackney violence brewing... Town Hall cleared. Hatton Gardens said to start at 2pm. #Londonriots

 

Stay safe people

[JJonas]

Somebody give Domino a shout. from Twitter

 

Office Workers in #BROMLEY have been told by Police to go home, trouble is starting there.