Windows 11

[Jcx500]

Can you download the iso yet?

[tg12]

Can you download the iso yet?

 

When I looked a couple of hours ago, no, sadly not.

[Oaktech]

It sounds like you have ancient hardware that should have been replaced already. You can’t really blame Microsoft that old hardware doesn’t work with modern software.

 

Of course... And yet, here we are.

[supportman]

All of our PC's here are Generation 7 intel and above, so should theoretically work. Lets see how it goes.

[Guest Guest]

All of our PC's here are Generation 7 intel and above, so should theoretically work. Lets see how it goes.

From what I've seen you require 8th gen

[BOOT]

Wow... this thing is very buggy.

End of the year release would be very ambitious.

[localzuk]

It sounds like you have ancient hardware that should have been replaced already. You can’t really blame Microsoft that old hardware doesn’t work with modern software.

Remember, resellers were selling 7th gen devices last year still...

[FN-GM]

Remember, resellers were selling 7th gen devices last year still...

 

It would have been a 3 year old processor. In the real world devices with a 3 year old process would be being removed from service or not far from it.

[Steve21]

Honestly more than the TPM issue, the webcam issue is what surprised me... Forced requirements for webcams on non-desktops hidden under the full documentation.

 

 

Depending on why it's being forced, we still have a bunch of laptops without webcams from previous yonders, so even with TPM they're going have problems

 

Maybe they're going to force using facial rec going forwards on mobile devices?

 

Edit - As a side note, desktop pc "not" including All-in-ones under their definition in there as well, so sounds like they're requiring them too

 

Steve

Edited June 29, 2021 by Steve21

[Norphy]

But this is the point mavhc made earlier: don’t confuse what’s required for new computers with what it’ll actually run on. I don’t think that it will refuse to install on an older laptop without a webcam but to get Windows certification, a new non-desktop will need a webcam.

[localzuk]

It would have been a 3 year old processor. In the real world devices with a 3 year old process would be being removed from service or not far from it.

Not at all true. Last year, there was a world pandemic where devices had to be bought on short notice. ANY laptops for sale were bought by many schools.

 

A 3 year old processor 100% would not be removed from service in any real organisation. The accounting firm (a large national firm) that does our audit? They've sent their staff in with 5 year old laptops before here... Many organisations follow a 5 year cycle. Not to mention, if you have organisations that don't have IT expertise of their own, so they rely on the expertise of external organisations - in some cases the very companies selling the kit.

 

It is entirely unreasonable to think a 3 year old processor should be disposed of. It isn't a good use of taxpayers money to say the least.

[DrCheese]

It would have been a 3 year old processor. In the real world devices with a 3 year old process would be being removed from service or not far from it.

 

You have way too much money to burn if you can afford to throw out 3 year old CPUs.

[FN-GM]

Not at all true. Last year, there was a world pandemic where devices had to be bought on short notice. ANY laptops for sale were bought by many schools.

 

They were short term solutions and an exception.

 

Not at all true. Last year, there was a world pandemic where devices had to be bought on short notice. ANY laptops for sale were bought by many schools.

 

A 3 year old processor 100% would not be removed from service in any real organisation.

 

I work in a business and this is the reality. These type of devices also went out of service when I was in schools.

 

 

It is entirely unreasonable to think a 3 year old processor should be disposed of. It isn't a good use of taxpayers money to say the least.

You have way too much money to burn if you can afford to throw out 3 year old CPUs.

 

Removing a device from service doesn't mean throwing it away with no financial return. In fact in many cases a carefully planned refresh meant that selling 3 year old devices meant a lower cost per month. Plus users had better facilities.

 

 

Besides - by the time Windows 10 is end of life these devices will have 9 year old processor and should be gone anyway.

Edited June 30, 2021 by FN-GM

[localzuk]

They were short term solutions.

 

There is no such thing in education. Money doesn't magically appear to fill the hole these new devices made in budgets, therefore these new devices have to survive until the budget hole is filled.

I work in a business and this is the reality. These type of devices also went out of service when I was in schools.

 

Do not take your one business as being the norm. It isn't.

 

Removing a device from service doesn't mean throwing it away with no financial return

 

If all businesses are going to only buy devices that are brand new, current generation CPUs, where exactly is the money for these old devices going to come from? There wouldn't be a market for them... One of the biggest markets for refurbished machines right now? Education...

Besides - by the time Windows 10 is end of life these devices will have 9 year old processor and should be gone anyway.

Again, schools bought 7th gen CPU devices last year. Which means in 2025 they will be just hitting 5 years old. Not 9.

[FN-GM]

There is no such thing in education.

 

I have worked in education for a long time including time as a senior leader. I know how it works.

 

Do not take your one business as being the norm.

 

It isn't just 1 business. It includes other business and schools. Do not take your work experience as the norm either...

 

Again, schools bought 7th gen CPU devices last year. Which means in 2025 they will be just hitting 5 years old. Not 9.

 

Buying outdated technology and expecting a long term service life is a poor procurement decision. Whilst the physical asset might be 5 years old it's using 9 year old technology.

Edited June 30, 2021 by FN-GM

[Boredguy]

I'll be honest, but certainly within our MAT there just isn't sufficient budget to contemplate buying new PC's for the 5 schools, so the refurb market is the only option we have.

 

It was not so bad in ye olden days when there was the government grants for IT, but now it's a lot harder as building maintenance and staff costs take up the vast majority of our budget.

 

Running the W11 test, most of our refurb workstations we've put in in the last 2 years should be fine as they were all 3rd or 4th gen i3/i5's and had TMP chips so will get us by for another couple of years before we have to think about replacing them with maybe 8th gen or similar.

[localzuk]

I have worked in education for a long time including time as a senior leader. I know how it works.

 

You quite clearly don't. Schools don't spend tens of thousands on kit and then happily throw it away after a few years. It just doesn't happen. It can't happen. We don't have the funding for it. Especially after a decade of budget freezes and cuts.

 

Put it this way. The average IT spend in 2018/19 was £59 per pupil. For a small primary school like a few of ours? That'd be £8k a year - and that would include internet connectivity, licensing etc... Impossible to do what you suggest. I get a budget roughly double that amount per pupil, and I still couldn't handle it. I'd have to double my budget again to be able to do it. Never going to happen unless the UK government suddenly decides to give schools a huge increase in funding.

It isn't just 1 business. It includes other business and school. Do not take your work experience as the norm either...

 

In schools? Its fairly self evident that it is the norm not to replace kit after 3 years. I've worked in 10 schools now, and have worked closely with another 4, and none of them replace kit after 3 years. Some of them aim to replace at 5 years though. I know of loads that are still running 8 year old or older kit.

Buying outdated technology and expecting a long term service life is a poor procurement decision. Whilst the physical asset might be 5 years old it's using 9 year old technology.

 

Remember, Microsoft had said that Windows 10 was the final version to ever be released, and Windows 10 operates on these devices just fine. So, it is not outlandish to do this. Remember also, MANY schools buy refurbished devices (not something we do here) as well.

[FN-GM]

I'll be honest, but certainly within our MAT there just isn't sufficient budget to contemplate buying new PC's for the 5 schools.

 

This could be likely be the financial decisions made by the MAT. In my last position (2 years ago granted) the MAT ran at a considerable surplus. We had a healthy IT budget, all schools had also been upgraded from RI to good or outstanding. They were some sound financial decisions and revenue from other sources.

 

It probably couldn't work for all but I do believe there is an industry wide issue of poor financial management in education in the UK. Most of the people making the decisions are not from the finance industry nor had any training. But its the IT folk (and others) who suffer.

[FN-GM]

You quite clearly don't. Schools don't spend tens of thousands on kit and then happily throw it away after a few years.

 

I didn't say throw it away. I actually said the opposite.

 

 

 

Put it this way. The average IT spend in 2018/19 was £59 per pupil. For a small primary school like a few of ours? That'd be £8k a year - and that would include internet connectivity, licensing etc... Impossible to do what you suggest. I get a budget roughly double that amount per pupil, and I still couldn't handle it. I'd have to double my budget again to be able to do it. Never going to happen unless the UK government suddenly decides to give schools a huge increase in funding.

Put it this way. The average IT spend in 2018/19 was £59 per pupil. For a small primary school like a few of ours? That'd be £8k a year - and that would include internet connectivity, licensing etc... Impossible to do what you suggest. I get a budget roughly double that amount per pupil, and I still couldn't handle it. I'd have to double my budget again to be able to do it. Never going to happen unless the UK government suddenly decides to give schools a huge increase in funding.

 

Remember, Microsoft had said that Windows 10 was the final version to ever be released, and Windows 10 operates on these devices just fine. So, it is not outlandish to do this. Remember also, MANY schools buy refurbished devices (not something we do here) as well.

 

Please see my response to Boredguy. (at the time of starting to write this you hadn't responded).

 

I am going to draw a line under this as we are going way off the original topic here. I am happy to continue elsewhere is there is a constructive discussion to be had.

Edited June 30, 2021 by FN-GM

[Michael]

This all kind of reminds me when Windows Vista gave computer 'ratings', not that anyone really paid that much attention to it. It was purely advisory.

 

The main difference between Apple and Microsoft predominately are that Apple manufacture the software as well as the hardware, whereas Microsoft don't, excluding Surface and XBOX hardware of course. This means there's a lot more varied hardware options.

 

If Microsoft are sensible about it, the requirements should be tweak-able and life cycle policies should be longer for Enterprise/Education than that of home users. At some point they'll be a big Microsoft drive to encourage users to adopt W11 over W10, but it'll back fire if a lot of installs aren't compatible (for whatever the reason).

 

I really wouldn't worry about it too much, as without a doubt, this is why Microsoft have Preview/Beta OSes - not only to test the OS, but also to obtain feedback from customers going forward. I very much doubt the requirements are set in stone, otherwise many of us will be running LTSC until 2029!

[localzuk]

This could be likely be the financial decisions made by the MAT. In my last position (2 years ago granted) the MAT ran at a considerable surplus. We had a healthy IT budget, all schools had also been upgraded from RI to good or outstanding. They were some sound financial decisions and revenue from other sources.

 

It probably couldn't work for all but I do believe there is an industry wide issue of poor financial management in education in the UK. Most of the people making the decisions are not from the finance industry nor had any training. But its the IT folk (and others) who suffer.

One thing to remember - the amount of money schools get varies wildly by area.

 

Some areas get upwards of £8000 a year per child. Others, get the minimum, around £4000. That makes an enormous difference.

[Boredguy]

This could be likely be the financial decisions made by the MAT. In my last position (2 years ago granted) the MAT ran at a considerable surplus. We had a healthy IT budget, all schools had also been upgraded from RI to good or outstanding. They were some sound financial decisions and revenue from other sources.

 

It probably couldn't work for all but I do believe there is an industry wide issue of poor financial management in education in the UK. Most of the people making the decisions are not from the finance industry nor had any training. But its the IT folk (and others) who suffer.

 

It would be nice to have a surplus, however as funding is based on student numbers and there is more secondary school choice than ever, that means less in our schools. Our site has gone from highs of 1200 students in 2008 down to the mid 900's as additional secondary's in the area have opened, which is similar for some of the other schools in the MAT.

[jthompson]

I guess in times past you could buy more years of service by buying higher performance spec to begin with. These days that maybe doesn't play out, as support for required protocols, etc. may now drop off faster than performance within 5 years or so.

[FN-GM]

Back to the topic on hand.

 

Apple have done a good job with theARM implementation (albeit some improvements are needed). Could Windows 11 see the ARM take off in the PC world?

[Zoom7000]

I've just set up a Windows 10 VM on my home PC, which can run Windows 11 and joined the Dev channel. But I'm not getting the Windows 11 preview show up in Windows Update. Any ideas?