Windows 11

[DrCheese]

Does Office refuse to work on the 2019 build, or just not supported? Not that even the latter is ideal.

 

Just not supported

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/changes-to-office-and-windows-servicing-and-support/ba-p/151509

 

You'd have to deploy the LTSC versions of office on those machines instead to stay in support.

 

https://redmondmag.com/articles/2021/02/19/microsoft-cuts-5-years-of-support.aspx < Here's where they say the next LTSC is only 5 years

[Jazeeba]

Im glad they are working on another os but there are so many things with this that seems quite out of place.

[MartinT]

I got Windows 11 setup on a new machine at home. It's very nice and slick once you get over the jarring from things not being where you are used to finding them. It is notably swift in getting things done and loves my Ryzen 6-core CPU, especially when you run the Quick CPU optimiser to prevent core parking. No problems at all installing Office 365 and an older version of Adobe Photoshop Elements from the new store.

 

Now I realise that's different from supporting a fleet of them at work, but there's nothing like getting ahead of the game and becoming familiar with it.

Edited October 11, 2021 by MartinT

[LeMarchand]

My in-place upgrade worked

 

Was your hardware up to spec? Trying to find a way to do an in-place upgrade on "You're 'avin a laff" machines to save time reloading software etc.

 

Sure someone said the Media Creation tool worked for them, but it looked like it was going to be a clean or new partition install via that method.

Edited October 11, 2021 by LeMarchand

[MartinT]

Apparently the Update Assistant is wise to the registry hacks and won't comply. The full ISO should allow it, but you must have at least TPM 1.2.

[Gongalong]

Was your hardware up to spec?

Yes it was.

[Oaktech]

Little heads up for anyone... If you in-place-upgrade a copy of any N edition of windows 10 that has subsequently had the media pack installed on it, all editions of Smart Notebook will refuse to run with a DLL error.

 

DISM /Online /Add-Capability /CapabilityName:Media.MediaFeaturePack~~~~0.0.1.0

 

Seems to fix it.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Already posted in the thread about upgrading admin machines, but here's my blog on Windows 11.

 

The Eleventh Hour | ICT Direct Blog - The Leading UK Refurbishers of quality computers for schools, colleges and Public Sector

 

I'll update it / add content as we learn more

[localzuk]

@ICTDirect_Dave - the issue is not installing Windows 11 on older kit it is lack of support for doing so. Microsoft have stated that unsupported devices may well not get Windows Updates, including security updates. It would be very risky for schools to follow a path of installing it in an unsupported manner these days.

[LeMarchand]

I'm wondering if MS are planning to wait and see how many people are using older hardware and, if there are a lot, let them get updates... or, take a kickback from the hardware peeps for increasing sales when they cut off updates.

[hardtailstar]

I'm wondering if MS are planning to wait and see how many people are using older hardware and, if there are a lot, let them get updates... or, take a kickback from the hardware peeps for increasing sales when they cut off updates.

 

My laptop is only 4 years old and its not supported because of the processor which is an old gen i7. The rest is supported. I spent £1500 on it to last me a few years. I would rather stay on Windows 10 until my laptop gives up than buy a new laptop that supports Windows 11.

 

If Microsoft decides to support my laptop then I'll upgrade.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

@ICTDirect_Dave - the issue is not installing Windows 11 on older kit it is lack of support for doing so. Microsoft have stated that unsupported devices may well not get Windows Updates, including security updates. It would be very risky for schools to follow a path of installing it in an unsupported manner these days.

At this time, I was just testing the new edition on older hardware. Specifically using Microsoft's own install route (USB created with their own Media Creation Tool).

Providing you have UEFI boot with secure boot enabled and at least a TPM 1.2, Windows does not complain, or even suggest the machine may be unsupported.

 

I've just powered the old T430 up once more, checked for updates and installed the same ones that the T480 got.

As I mention in the blog. For now, at least. Supported and unsupported PCs are getting the same updates, which rather leaves the unsupported ones in in the supported category.

I mentioned that it's early days, and things may well change. But currently, the evidence points to things beings okay

[Gongalong]

What @localzuk says. It's really important to note that Windows 11 will only be supported on Intel 8th gen onwards and AMD Ryzen 2nd gen (more or less) with TPM2.

 

I sincerely hope Microsoft see sense and change this, but equally they need to make a decision for schools that have older hardware and will need to plan upgrades over the next 4 years.

[Oaktech]

I'm wondering if MS are planning to wait and see how many people are using older hardware and, if there are a lot, let them get updates... or, take a kickback from the hardware peeps for increasing sales when they cut off updates.

 

It seems to depend how you read the reports. Some reports suggest that at some point unsupported system will simply not get updates, others suggest that unsupported systems will not be offered updates at the same priority as supported ones... I'm not sure how WSUS fits into all of this as I'm currently authorising updates for Windows 11 and they're appearing, applying and reporting fine on all harwdware?

[DrCheese]

What @localzuk says. It's really important to note that Windows 11 will only be supported on Intel 8th gen onwards and AMD Ryzen 2nd gen (more or less) with TPM2.

 

I sincerely hope Microsoft see sense and change this, but equally they need to make a decision for schools that have older hardware and will need to plan upgrades over the next 4 years.

 

They won't & they have no reason to as the problem will get smaller over time anyway as organisations upgrade equipment.

[Gongalong]

I was struggling to find Microsoft's official word on the matter, but have finally found this. It's rather woolly when you've got to commit to tens of thousands of pounds of hardware, or not: "Installing Windows 11 on a device that does not meet Windows 11 minimum system requirements is not recommended. If you choose to install Windows 11 on ineligible hardware, you should be comfortable assuming the risk of running into compatibility issues. Your device might malfunction due to these compatibility or other issues. Devices that do not meet these system requirements will no longer be guaranteed to receive updates, including but not limited to security updates." https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/installing-windows-11-on-devices-that-don-t-meet-minimum-system-requirements-0b2dc4a2-5933-4ad4-9c09-ef0a331518f1

[Protec]

Does Windows 11 still activate with Windows 7 keys and Windows 8 / 8.1 Digital entitlements?

[localzuk]

The thing is, Win 10 support doesn't end for another, what, 4 years? At that point, a 7th gen Intel CPU will be 9 years old. By that point, 8th and better gen CPU machines will be available as refurbed machines. So, the only real issue will be people with older machines for some reason wanting to rush into Windows 11.

 

I know its not on my development plan for at least a couple more years anyway!

[Gongalong]

Does Windows 11 still activate with Windows 7 keys and Windows 8 / 8.1 Digital entitlements?

No idea. It hasn't appeared in VLSC yet. The only machine I've updated was an in-place upgrade, and there's been no message about activation.

[Gongalong]

The thing is, Win 10 support doesn't end for another, what, 4 years? At that point, a 7th gen Intel CPU will be 9 years old. By that point, 8th and better gen CPU machines will be available as refurbed machines. So, the only real issue will be people with older machines for some reason wanting to rush into Windows 11.

 

I know its not on my development plan for at least a couple more years anyway!

And in that time will Microsoft change their minds...

[hardtailstar]

The thing is, Win 10 support doesn't end for another, what, 4 years? At that point, a 7th gen Intel CPU will be 9 years old. By that point, 8th and better gen CPU machines will be available as refurbed machines. So, the only real issue will be people with older machines for some reason wanting to rush into Windows 11.

 

I know its not on my development plan for at least a couple more years anyway!

 

My personal laptop is only 4 years old, its still good for a few more years. I'd like to update it to Windows 11 but the CPU isnt supported.

[Gongalong]

My work laptop has hit 5 years, and my desktop's beyond that, so I've put in for an upgrade of both so I can at least use it. If I can get Dell to give me a quote...

[LeMarchand]

Does anyone else think http://www.edugeek.net/forums/windows-11/224154-anyone-upgrading-their-admin-machines.html should be merged with this one?

 

Anyway, I just added the W11 wim to our MDT using the existing W10 settings (which may need a tweak as it doesn't seem to auto-join to the domain any more) and tried an in-place upgrade from W10 on an i3-3220 machine with 4GB RAM and no TPM. It failed to copy existing users (due to lack of domain/other connectivity at the time, I guess?) but W11 installed and is running. All devices available under "Optional Updates". Took a couple of restarts to properly accept it was part of the domain and pick up policies but otherwise seems fine.

 

Now... should I put it in the staffroom and see what people have to say?

[Norphy]

And in that time will Microsoft change their minds...

 

I don't think it's likely. Indulging in some speculation here:

 

AFAIK Microsoft haven't publicly stated why the 8th Gen Core ix and 2nd Gen Ryzen is the minimum required CPU for Windows 11 but the most likely sounding theories to me are:

 

1) There's a security related feature built into Windows 11 which isn't enabled by default which requires a certain CPU instruction which either isn't available in the earlier versions of the CPU or, if it is, isn't as developed.

2) There have been a lot of widely publicised flaws with CPUs in the past couple of years like Meltdown and SPECTRE which have workarounds either in firmware or CPU microcode updates, and older CPUs aren't as likely to have those workarounds.

 

Either way, it's probably security related and those security reasons aren't going to go away just because we want them to. If reason 1 is true, chances are that subsequent releases of Windows 11 are going to first enable the security feature by default, then enforce it. That sort of thing is likely to come with a major release of the OS (e.g. 22H2, 23H2 etc) rather than a hotfix. That's probably what Microsoft mean when they say that they reserve the right not to update the OS on anything that's not officially supported.

 

So, right now, this means that you can put Windows 11 on your unsupported Sandy Bridge based systems but come October next year it may well not work when the new build gets released. If you're going to keep hardware that doesn't officially support Windows 11, you're probably safer keeping Windows 10 on it. If you want to roll out Windows 11 to your estate, that means that it's safer to either wait until unsupported hardware is replaced or do it in phases with your newer hardware first. I would seriously recommend against putting W11 on unsupported hardware and putting it into production as you just don't know either when it's going to a) stop working or b) stop receiving security updates.

 

If Microsoft do change their minds about which CPUs are supported by Windows 11, I find it unlikely that they're going to start supporting older CPUs. I think it's more likely that they're going to phase out ones which are supported right now. It's also worth pointing out that CPU requirements for Windows 10 now aren't the same as they were when Windows 10 1511 was released; Windows 10 1903 changed the CPU requirements and stopped support for a lot of older CPUs, mostly Atom based ones IIRC.

 

Please don't take any of this as an endorsement and/or condemnation of what Microsoft are doing by the way. The fact is, this is the reality of what's happening and that reality is what we've got to work with.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Norphy

[DrCheese]

And in that time will Microsoft change their minds...

 

Why will they?