ESS SIMS 3 Year Contracts

[DavidYoung]

Hi Everyone,

 

Just wanted to give a heads-up that our annual entitlement statement came through for one of my schools this morning and noticed they are trying to force everyone on to three year contract terms. The exact wording they use:

 

2. Moving to three-year contracts.

 

To deliver best-in-class solutions and increased value to our users, we are making changes to your SIMS Annual Entitlement plan. We are extending the length of the agreement to three years, giving you the certainty of a fixed cost for the first year and a capped price increase for years two and three. The revised agreement provides full access to the enhancements we’re making to SIMS, including the ‘Next Gen’ software feature sets. These improvements to SIMS will be available at no additional cost.

 

I have sent them a message through the renewals portal and also emailed them directly to say we only want to renew for 1 year as we are planning to move to a new MIS soon.

 

Just wanted to give everyone a heads-up and you might want to warn your business managers, etc. in case someone just clicks blindly through the renewal or, I suspect if the renewal form isn't completed they would just automatically move everyone to 3 year terms.

 

I have to say when I saw they were taken over by ParentPay my hopes were pretty low but this is clearly just a way to force schools that are likely looking elsewhere to stay while they try to catch up.

 

David

[localzuk]

That is incredibly poor. We don't want to sign up to a 3 year commitment. Doing so would require us to go to full tender due to the value of the contract.

[paulkerton]

That is a classic example of a company who are in trouble, or certainly are panicking about their future.

 

That is incredibly poor. We don't want to sign up to a 3 year commitment. Doing so would require us to go to full tender due to the value of the contract.

Well, there would be a certain irony to a company deciding to push everyone to a multi-year contract in order to try and secure themselves ending up forcing everyone into a competitive tender situation rather than their actual intention to keep their market monopoly.

[mavhc]

So SIMS has 3 years left to live? RIP

[DrCheese]

Not sure how this is even legal - This is what we've just got through about our renewal

 

• Please be aware that if the portal process is not completed by 1st February 2022, an agreement will be generated for existing products with a 3 year term. An invoice for the first year of this term will be issued in full and will be payable.

 

They can't swap you to a longer contract without consent.

Edited November 9, 2021 by DrCheese

[paulkerton]

They can't swap you to a longer contract without consent.

Well, I'm not sure that's true. I guess they have to notify you within a certain period of time of a change of terms and conditions, upon which you then have the opportunity to bounce out?

[DrCheese]

Well, I'm not sure that's true. I guess they have to notify you within a certain period of time of a change of terms and conditions, upon which you then have the opportunity to bounce out?

 

It really should be. The government did start looking into consumer companies that do this (eg Locking you in for long periods with an auto renewal/no get out) as you often find out too late it's happened.

[supportman]

Ahh if there was ever a reason to move, now is it!

 

Sounds like they are panicking already....

 

Companies that have good software don't need to lock people into long contracts.

[paulkerton]

It really should be. The government did start looking into consumer companies that do this (eg Locking you in for long periods with an auto renewal/no get out) as you often find out too late it's happened.

 

I agree. It's shady and stinks of "uh oh, we'd better lock them in else we are in trouble"

Alongside that shocking statement regarding the cloud future (or lack of it) and playing on FUD, then its clear that as renewals come, if you're being pushed to 3 year, you should start to look at alternatives.

[localzuk]

I emailed their annual entitlements email address, and got a fairly prompt reply stating... I have to use their renewals portal and tick the "I want to discuss the renewal" box, and put my issues in there. Completely unintuitive. And unhelpful for a MAT with a bunch of schools.

[simpsonj]

Is there a way to only renew for a year? Our MAT is starting an MIS tender this year, so signing up for the next 3 years isn't really an option for us!

[localzuk]

You have to contact them - it doesn't look like there's a way to do it in the renewals portal.

[simpsonj]

You have to contact them - it doesn't look like there's a way to do it in the renewals portal.

 

Superb, no doubt I'll get an immediate response

[sefton]

I'll be so glad to be cancelling our contracts this time around.

[FragglePete]

This is par for course with the Parent Pay parent company, this happened with Schoolcomms - forced us onto a 3 year contract. Makes planning changes in the future difficult.

 

Pete

[mthomas08]

Thank you for the heads up.

 

Also - "including the ‘Next Gen’ software feature sets"

 

What next generation software features?

SIMs is incredibly old and nothing about it is next generation. I've gone through Windows XP > Windows 7 and Windows 10 site wide changes and SIMs.net is still here.

 

Edit: Good news for us, we signed up for a 1 year agreement.

 

Anyone know how much notice we need to give? The paper work I have doesn't state it.

Edited November 9, 2021 by mthomas08

[Theblacksheep]

 

What next generation software features?

SIMs is incredibly old and nothing about it is next generation. I've gone through Windows XP > Windows 7 and Windows 10 site wide changes and SIMs.net is still here.

 

Depends which direction on the timeline you are looking.

[mavhc]

A generation is about 25 years, so probably due soon

[DrCheese]

This is par for course with the Parent Pay parent company, this happened with Schoolcomms - forced us onto a 3 year contract. Makes planning changes in the future difficult.

 

Yarp. If your product is good enough, it should be able to stand without locking customers in for 3 years. Without the threat of customers being able to walk away it allows companies to get lazy and do the bare minimum.... which funnily enough, companies that tend to do this often do. (Hi Parentpay, SIMS, School Asset manager, RsConnected/keep kids safe, Schoolcomms!)

What bugs me even more is silent rollovers to fresh 3 year contracts as well, sneakily disgused as normal renewals.

 

Pack it in. Make a decent product and the renewals will come anyway.

[andyfield]

I've already spoken to them and had a webinar with their new CEO included... They all confirmed that a 3 year minimum contract length is required... Guess they are trying to keep some guaranteed income to assist with future developments. Apparently the new developments are coming as soon as early 2022 but when I asked what they were.... silence...

[Primus]

So glad we've already switched 1 school and are in the process of switching all the others by the new year!

[7777newgeek]

Hi all,

 

Our SLT aren't sure they want to commit to 3 years, however, we've also spoken to a few of the other MIS providers and they all seem to want to start with a 3 year contract. Is this standard these days or do some offer a 1 year to start with? Also has anyone spoken with SIMS about a 1 year contract?

 

Thanks

[pete]

Just spotted this too.

 

It would be lovely if current incumbents would stop accelerating our departure plans from them all at the same time.

[PrimaryNetMan]

Sounds like typical ParentPay renewal practices. They do the same with Schoolcomms it seems. Have a school that was coming to the end of a 3Y term, school went to give the equivalent of 6m notice, only to be told that as the school recently purchased the payments module, messaging was automatically renewed for the same term! The fact they do this is hidden in the T&Cs. Awful practice!

[localzuk]

Our SLT aren't sure they want to commit to 3 years, however, we've also spoken to a few of the other MIS providers and they all seem to want to start with a 3 year contract. Is this standard these days or do some offer a 1 year to start with? Also has anyone spoken with SIMS about a 1 year contract?

 

If you're signing up to a new one, its pretty much always 3 years.