ESS SIMS 3 Year Contracts

[synaesthesia]

If you're signing up to a new one, its pretty much always 3 years.

 

This; there is a significant amount of time and resource involved in installing a new MIS so a 3 year contract for starters would be reasonable. Renewal however, not so much.

[7777newgeek]

This; there is a significant amount of time and resource involved in installing a new MIS so a 3 year contract for starters would be reasonable. Renewal however, not so much.

 

Ok, good point, but do the other MIS vendors then offer rolling contracts or do they only offer longer-term? If this is the norm outside of what our SLT is used to, then we need to know so we can change the we look at our contracts and procurement.

Edited November 10, 2021 by 7777newgeek

[FragglePete]

Just gone through our renewal portal and seen this too. What is interesting, the e-mail initial sent stated the following:

 

• Please be aware that if the portal process is not completed by 1st February 2022, an agreement will be generated for existing products with a 3 year term. An invoice for the first year of this term will be issued in full and will be payable.

 

This would indicate that if we go through the renewal portal as suggest we wouldn't be tied into a 3 year term, but when you do, it looks like you have no option anyway.

 

We were planning to start looking at something else, but nobody has the time just yet. But, looks like this will be a three year process now and will happily give them notice now that we don't continue in 3 years. Shame on them - I think the DfE needs to be made aware of this.

 

Pete

[DrCheese]

We were planning to start looking at something else, but nobody has the time just yet.

 

Aye a lot of schools are & I think they know this, hense this underhanded attempt at swapping to 3 years (A lot of places would just process the renewal as normal)

 

Future promises are no good, because they've been promising this stuff for years. Never buy a product based on what they promise in the future.

[FragglePete]

I've been asked by SMT/SLT to get a copy of the contract and we're going to gain legal advice from our solicitors before agreeing to anything. Our Auditors are also being asked the question if this is valid or not.

 

Pete

[Theblacksheep]

A PITA for MATs when new schools join, tied to a relic for another 3 years or simply paying for it.

[SpaceInvader83]

It's obviously a business tactic, sting schools into a 3 year sign up and then you'd like to think that buys them time to release (Maybe - pigs might fly?) the cloud offering, Sims 8 or whatever it may end up being, knowing education many schools would sit tight and move over to their cloud offering without looking elsewhere if this migration happens during that 3 year tie in.

[paulkerton]

It's obviously a business tactic, sting schools into a 3 year sign up and then you'd like to think that buys them time to release (Maybe - pigs might fly?) the cloud offering, Sims 8 or whatever it may end up being, knowing education many schools would sit tight and move over to their cloud offering without looking elsewhere if this migration happens during that 3 year tie in.

 

SIMS 8, now available with hen's teeth

SIMS 8, when hell freeze's over

SIMS 8 - released on the 12th of Never

 

"EES SIMS announces Duke Nukem as product spokesman for SIMS 8"

It has been 1686 days since they first announced SIMS 8 with the press release and the flash Next Generation SIMS website.

It's about time we all put our foot down and started calling SIMS 8 what it is. Vaporware.

 

Their blog post last month made it clear that SIMS 8 is basically cancelled and won't be coming out. They're basically going to RDP SIMS .net instead and that is their "Next gen project"

https://www.ess-sims.co.uk/resources/blog/next-generation-sims

It is pathetically laughable.

Edited November 10, 2021 by paulkerton

[synaesthesia]

A PITA for MATs when new schools join, tied to a relic for another 3 years or simply paying for it.

 

A PITA indeed but forward planning helps prevent this, especially if a change of MIS is on the cards anyway. New schools coming in would give the opportunity to have a couple of live tests.

[DrCheese]

[/size][/b]Their blog post last month made it clear that SIMS 8 is basically cancelled and won't be coming out. They're basically going to RDP SIMS .net instead and that is their "Next gen project"

https://www.ess-sims.co.uk/resources/blog/next-generation-sims

It is pathetically laughable.

 

lol oh my god. I can't believe this is still what they're going with. At this rate they could have bought up one of the other companies and used that as a platform for the future.

 

Edit:- Also what's the betting they avoid BETT this year (Well 2022) as well? Past few years they've hid - Either because of that massive data breach they had a few years ago, or because they kept promising SIMS 8 but had nothing to show...

Edited November 10, 2021 by DrCheese

[FragglePete]

So, looking at that blog post - anybody here been speaking to ESS then, as they claim to have been speaking to educators, administrators and school leaders? Anybody ?

 

I love the scare tactic of the 'disruption' of changing MIS and afraid of loosing Data - errr. No - careful planning, training etc, yep - we can do that if need be. Any now you've given us three years to start planning.

 

"Fueled by your feedback and substantial funding" - yeah, that'll be tying schools in for the 3 years then to give you that cash, but whose feeback? Who?

 

Heck, if your "SIMS Next Gen Project" is as great as you say it will be - show it first before you tie us in - but if we don't see something tangible from Q1 2022 then this too will be more Vaporware.

 

I'm so angry right now.

 

Pete

[Primus]

So, looking at that blog post - anybody here been speaking to ESS then, as they claim to have been speaking to educators, administrators and school leaders? Anybody ?

 

I love the scare tactic of the 'disruption' of changing MIS and afraid of loosing Data - errr. No - careful planning, training etc, yep - we can do that if need be. Any now you've given us three years to start planning.

 

"Fueled by your feedback and substantial funding" - yeah, that'll be tying schools in for the 3 years then to give you that cash, but whose feeback? Who?

 

Heck, if your "SIMS Next Gen Project" is as great as you say it will be - show it first before you tie us in - but if we don't see something tangible from Q1 2022 then this too will be more Vaporware.

 

I'm so angry right now.

 

Pete

 

I spoke to them, but at the time we'd already made the decision to leave, so my feedback to our account manager was "We're leaving and there isn't anything you can do to change our decision, to prevent others leaving you need a cloud product as soon as possible."

 

I think I even said it had to be a properly new cloud product not a remote desktop or other cobbled together solution.

[mavhc]

I mean the only way you'd lose data is if you set fire to the sims server after you migrated, guess that's what they're expecting you to want to do

[supportman]

For those of you who are still on Sims I would question "When is the right time to move?".

 

- I mean we've just been through a pandemic where everyone needed remote access.

- Sims are tying schools into lengthy contracts

- The entire world is moving to the cloud and has been for years

- There are 3 competitors in the market that offer a secondary cloud MIS that is far superior to Sims in nearly every way. Primary even more so.

- MATs are becoming more and more prevalent where you actually need to link school data in the cloud

- It can work out cheaper to move

- It reduces complexity of the network with 3rd party system integration

- There is an epidemic of Remote Desktop Ransomware going on with multiple examples of complete local MIS data loss in schools.

 

Anyone who doesnt at least look at the alternatives, is quite frankly burying their head in the sand in my opinion

Edited November 11, 2021 by supportman

[Cat_Jam148]

For those of you who are still on Sims I would question "When is the right time to move?".

For us, and probably some others, the right time to move is when the School Business Manager and Head Teacher deem it so. No matter the recommendations I make, convincing them to move from SIMS has been a fruitless task.

 

I'm 100% for moving but its out of my hands.

[paulkerton]

For us, and probably some others, the right time to move is when the School Business Manager and Head Teacher deem it so.

Its going to be part of your job to push and ask them why they're so hesitant. I had the same issue and the answer was "we don't want to rock the boat".

Eventually I left because they were flippantly transigent and they were a school that didn't fulfil my ambitions and were happy to be stuck in the past. They decided they were happy with students using Google Docs, but staff had to use Office because "I don't like the way the tables are formatted".

 

Literally throwing £5k at licensing a year because of the table formatting.

 

They're organisations that need screaming at, frankly.

[paulkerton]

Edit:- Also what's the betting they avoid BETT this year (Well 2022) as well? Past few years they've hid - Either because of that massive data breach they had a few years ago, or because they kept promising SIMS 8 but had nothing to show...

 

ParentPay, Schoolcomms and SIMS are not listed on the exhibitors list for BETT 2022 currently.

 

[mavhc]

"But I like FMS!", and also pain apparently?

 

So usually: when someone retires.

[PrimaryNetMan]

ParentPay, Schoolcomms and SIMS are not listed on the exhibitors list for BETT 2022 currently.

 

 

They are thinking of the health of all the SBMs who would otherwise be queuing to complain about their 3Y renewal policies.

[DavidYoung]

For those of you who are still on Sims I would question "When is the right time to move?".

 

There is never a good time to move but we are going to need to go through the pain to improve things in the long term.

 

We have only just started working on this project and were considering moving during the 2022 AY but looks like ESS might force our hand. I have a call with them booked for this afternoon.

[ajp233]

ESS are launching SIMS Connected, which is basically SIMS7 but in the cloud. Much improved over Hosted SIMS and comes with a performance guarantee.

[localzuk]

Had a chat with our account manager earlier. Now its all been referred up to my boss and to check with our solicitors to find out where we stand. Looking more and more like we're going to be forced to go to tender.

[paulkerton]

ESS are launching SIMS Connected, which is basically SIMS7 but in the cloud. Much improved over Hosted SIMS and comes with a performance guarantee.

SIMS Connected is exactly the same as Hosted SIMS, except they've turned on the HTML 5 RDP client.

 

It's just a rebranding exercise.

 

Had a chat with our account manager earlier. Now its all been referred up to my boss and to check with our solicitors to find out where we stand. Looking more and more like we're going to be forced to go to tender.

 

Which is exactly the opposite of their intentions.

 

*Womp womp*

Edited November 11, 2021 by paulkerton

[coolhands]

How can you do a tendering process at this stage? There's not enough time to properly evaluate the competitors etc and go through a whole tendering process and potentially go to an alternative if you weren't expecting this? Impossible. So the tendering process is moot cos we're going to have to renew! But frankly them doing this encourages one to look for an alternative MIS in 3 years time as this is disgraceful conduct. And I'm happy to sit with what i know (ie sims) but this actually makes me want to go. Absolute t0$$3rs

[Primus]

I think this is where Edugeek might be able to help - also ANME. Perhaps with a public letter signed by the community and copied to places like Schools Week, the TES etc?