ESS SIMS 3 Year Contracts

[PrimaryNetMan]

If you were already thinking of moving away but hadn't started the process, start it today! There are 5 weeks until the end of term. Think about what your schools managed to do in 5 weeks during the start of the pandemic.

[lordasb]

We are a large school but also part of the mat, I had a call with our account manager asking them to confirm the following

 

Of the 7 line items we order which of those are locked to the 3 year term, if so we would look to either drop them and move to Microsoft teams for those parts, or in the case of NovaT have already moved away.

 

She did the stock " this is the answer to the one year question" before seeing my point that we would see them as optional add on's to the core package and that throwing it on the end of the renewal was a little wrong and should have been communicated in a more formal way.

 

Will post reply when and if I get one.

[paulkerton]

Of the 7 line items we order which of those are locked to the 3 year term, if so we would look to either drop them and move to Microsoft teams for those parts, or in the case of NovaT have already moved away.

 

It's been a while since I had to be directly involved with SIMS. What parts of it could you move to Teams?

[howartp]

A thought has just occurred to me.

 

I know some schools use alternative companies for their SIMS support.

 

How does this relate to the renewals we're currently discussing? Can we drop the (~£13,000) Capita 3-year renewal and move to a 3rd party support unit? Does this still provide us access to SOLUS patches, filesets and upgrades (albeit indirectly)?

 

Is it the whole Capita cost we'd drop, or is there a usage license as well as the support cost in there somewhere?

[DrCheese]

that throwing it on the end of the renewal was a little wrong and should have been communicated in a more formal way.

 

Do we all have the same renewal dates? (Feb/March) In which case then yes, they've delibrately gone out of their way to leave this as late as possible to tell us.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

A thought has just occurred to me.

 

I know some schools use alternative companies for their SIMS support.

 

How does this relate to the renewals we're currently discussing? Can we drop the (~£13,000) Capita 3-year renewal and move to a 3rd party support unit? Does this still provide us access to SOLUS patches, filesets and upgrades (albeit indirectly)?

 

Is it the whole Capita cost we'd drop, or is there a usage license as well as the support cost in there somewhere?

 

No, that's just support not licensing. Can't have one without the other.

[Primus]

I thought everyone was on the same renewals - you have to give notice by December 31st and the new contract starts on April 1st?

[supportman]

I thought everyone was on the same renewals - you have to give notice by December 31st and the new contract starts on April 1st?

 

Thats how it was for us when we left, needed to give notice by Christmas. Stopped paying in April.

[howartp]

A thought has just occurred to me.

 

I know some schools use alternative companies for their SIMS support.

 

How does this relate to the renewals we're currently discussing? Can we drop the (~£13,000) Capita 3-year renewal and move to a 3rd party support unit? Does this still provide us access to SOLUS patches, filesets and upgrades (albeit indirectly)?

 

Is it the whole Capita cost we'd drop, or is there a usage license as well as the support cost in there somewhere?

 

No, that's just support not licensing. Can't have one without the other.

Sorry, which part of the three questions are you saying no to?

[localzuk]

Sorry, which part of the three questions are you saying no to?

The money we pay to ESS is yearly maintenance, not support. There's a separate cost for support on top. In our case, we pay our LEA for this.

[DrCheese]

^ Yes what Localzuk said. You can't cut off the SIMS annual renewal and get by with just the support contract. You can't have support without the licenses.

[jmak]

Can you not issue a notice that you don't intend to renew and then change your mind in March?

 

Would they really refuse to take you back if you offered to sign a three year contract?

[DrCheese]

Can you not issue a notice that you don't intend to renew and then change your mind in March?

 

Would they really refuse to take you back if you offered to sign a three year contract?

 

Playing a dangerous game, not something I'd want to do with a system that's so important

 

What's annoying, is they know that. Which is why they're getting away with this.

[SWreporter]

Hi all,

 

I am a reporter at education newspaper Schools Week. We’ve been made aware of the SIMS contract change and are working on a story for later this week.

 

I spotted your posts in this thread and was wondering if anyone would be happy to chat more about the situation?

 

We’re especially keen to show the impact the change could have on schools, and schools’ reactions to this change, especially as the move seems to be pressuring schools into making a quick decision on what is usually a fairly long process.

 

Would anyone be happy to have a chat for the piece?

 

I’m on [email protected] or 07710 159 488.

 

All the best,

 

James

[HereIGoAgain2601]

Happy to discuss if you wish James.

 

We are looking to move away ASAP - they have been promising things for years and never deliver.

 

The new bosses have simply realised that a lot of schools has had enough and they are deliberate trying to stop us from being able to get a new MIS that is modern and more useful.

 

Nobody actually believes that SIMS is going to be truly cloud based even within those 3 years. I went to a meeting of the Capita big wigs 4/5 years ago and there has not been 1 bit of actual change or progress since then.

 

It is disgraceful behaviour by basically forcing us to stick with something for 3 years or putting pressure on schools that we don’t need to now get this done quickly.

[localzuk]

I will check with our management tomorrow to see if I'm ok to have a chat.

[titch]

Some cloud MIS providers already have join now start pay at the end of your current SIMS agreement. I can see these being extended to secure new long term customers.

Which ones have you seen doing this out of interest?

[PrimaryNetMan]

This offer was back in May and ran till end of summer. - https://www.schoolbusinessservices.co.uk/news/mis-switching-to-arbor

 

Admittedly this was Primary only, but once the new year roles round and everyone who is currently running SIMS is then locked in to another 3 years, how are other providers going to get new sign ups? It's as if they are taking advantage of their monopoly status....

[DrCheese]

everyone who is currently running SIMS is then locked in to another 3 years, how are other providers going to get new sign ups?

 

Yes, it's somewhat different if everyone is on 3-year contracts that were all signed at different times so finish over the course of a number of years, but this is a "big bang" to move everyone at once and completely lock up the market for 3 years. I'm not sure what laws (if any) their competitors can really use to try and block this tho. You'd hope the government/DFE would intervene in this, but again I don't see how.

[paulkerton]

I would assume competitors will have to head to the Competition and Markets Authority. Afterall, a monopoly is considered by them to be anyone who has over 25% of the market.... and ESS SIMS has 70%.... and then they're trying to tie people down for three years to eliminate any competition in that period...

[howartp]

Does anyone who has already jumped ship have any tender documentation they're willing to share as to what sort of questions/criteria were used?

 

Obviously the weights and direction of every school is different but seeing other examples is always a good starting point.

[SWreporter]

Thanks for your reply.

 

Please do email me the best number to reach you on and I will give you a call.

 

Cheers!

[SpaceInvader83]

Does anyone who has already jumped ship have any tender documentation they're willing to share as to what sort of questions/criteria were used?

 

Obviously the weights and direction of every school is different but seeing other examples is always a good starting point.

 

It's worth taking a look at the G-Cloud framework, which I believe would cut down the amount of work you'd need to do.

Edited November 16, 2021 by SpaceInvader83

[JamesWeatherill]

This offer was back in May and ran till end of summer. - https://www.schoolbusinessservices.co.uk/news/mis-switching-to-arbor

 

Admittedly this was Primary only, but once the new year roles round and everyone who is currently running SIMS is then locked in to another 3 years, how are other providers going to get new sign ups? It's as if they are taking advantage of their monopoly status....

 

Hi there, I'm the CEO & cofounder of Arbor and this post was about our offer. I can confirm that this is available for ALL schools. It's meant to reduce the timing to switch only when you're contract expires and gives you more time to pick a time that suits you. I'll be putting a blog live on the Arbor website & linkedin today to explain my views on what's going on and what school's options are!

Edited November 16, 2021 by JamesWeatherill

[woodham]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/unfair-contract-terms-cma37

[localzuk]

Has anyone not yet logging into their ESS Renewals account that can send me a screenshot of the initial blurb that outlines the change? As I clicked past it, I cannot now go back to it.

 

EDIT, never mind, it came up when I looked at a different school.

Edited November 16, 2021 by localzuk