ESS SIMS 3 Year Contracts

[enjay]

You gotta laugh at them saying they are making £40m investment.... Thats only because you have to because you bought such a crap product that needs significant investment

 

Sounds like the social media rhetoric from my local council, explaining how much more they're spending on road resurfacing this year compared to last. That could be because they didn't resurface any last year, and indeed tightened the criteria for which holes get repaired.

[paulkerton]

SIMS remains by far the most widely used and functionally complete school management information system (MIS) in the UK and is familiar to the majority of UK education professionals.

So we're going to ignore EduLink, ParentPay's own tools, text messaging services, payment solutions all having to be bolted on.

Familarity is not a reason to keep using a tool. If that was the case Spotify wouldn't exist because cassettes were familiar to the majority.

 

ESS are planning to invest £40 million into SIMS and FMS over the next 3 years, to make them even better solutions for all of our customers. That is many times what any of our competitors invest

Because your competitiors are at an advantage already, and don't need to plough that kind of money in to catch up to create a modern MIS that isn't trapped by 30 years of legacy

 

We call this ‘SIMS Next Gen’.

I call myself a younger David Gandy, but that doesn't mean it's true.

 

Purchasing a school MIS is invariably a long-term commitment by both customer and supplier. A MIS is not something which schools would sensibly wish to change from year to year. Indeed, schools typically remain with the same system for many years.

 

So in deciding which MIS to use it makes sense for schools to consider a supplier’s long term viability, investment plans, scale and ownership as well as the breadth and depth of its MIS functionality both now and as it is likely to be in the future.

Yes, which is why SIMS churn rate is so high these days. After all, Capita sold off ESS because of long term viability problems.

 

As foar functionality now and as it is likely to be in the future... one would assume exactly the same as it is now with no real changes based on the previous 7 years of promises of change not being delivered.

Let's see the SIMS "Next Gen" roadmap...

 

We believe that on all those counts ESS and SIMS score highly.

Belief is an acceptance that something is true without evidence.

 

SIMS was designed by its users

I guess we're going with the inifinte monkeys and infinite copies of Photoshop approach to UX. If ParentPay's UX is anything to go by then this isn't going to go well either. ParentPay is horribly difficult to work with.

 

The whole clarity for the future email does seem very desperate on their behalf. They've clearly upset a lot of people and people are deciding to look elsewhere.

Edited December 8, 2021 by paulkerton

[Seb1780]

We got our Clarity For The Future email last night but as we're a maintained school there are some differences.

 

In a section entitled Next Steps it says

"Your Local Authority's (LA) existing Annual Entitlement (AE) agreement is not due to expire on 31 March 2022, so this year's renewal arrangements through your LA are unchanged."

 

This means we can continue with our annual licensing and buy some time to make the change, if we decide to change. I urge other maintained schools to check this out with their LA, if you've not already done so.

 

Later in the message the section called SIMS Next Gen it says

"We are not able to provide SIMS Next Gen as part of your LA’s existing contract due to GDPR compliance issues. We are in discussions with your LA regarding contractual changes that will enable you to access SIMS Next Gen functionality at no extra cost. However, to benefit from SIMS Next Gen you will need to enter into a new direct three-year agreement with ESS.

 

Line one - You will not get access to SIMS Next Gen via the LA when (if) that is released

Line two - We're discussing with your LA access to SIMS Next Gen at no extra cost

Line three - You can only get SIMS Next Gen via direct agreement with ESS

 

And what are the GDPR implications on a system that already holds so much personal data?

 

So much nonsense in three little sentences

[mavhc]

Because it's hosted by them, so they're storing your data I suppose.

[DrCheese]

Have people read the FAQ's here: https://ess-sims.co.uk/sites/default/files/2021-12/SIMS-Contract-Changes-2022-FAQs_0.pdf

 

The language used, the indirect (direct) digs at other competitors and the patronising tone it takes against schools/MATs wanting to do the best for their school is honestly a joke (imo)

 

Yes I read it last night, it's an absolutely awful document. The bit about "We're not forcing you" is utter c**p really, it's like having a gun against your head with a document to sign in front of you "Oh we're not forcing you to sign" - Yeah, right!

 

They know they hold most of the cards at the moment so can act this way.

[Seb1780]

Because it's hosted by them, so they're storing your data I suppose.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I know there are GDPR considerations with SIMS; my query was what GDPR considerations are preventing them providing SIMS Next Gen via our existing LA contract?

[paulkerton]

Have people read the FAQ's here: https://ess-sims.co.uk/sites/default/files/2021-12/SIMS-Contract-Changes-2022-FAQs_0.pdf

It is the one of very few significant education suppliers in the UK that isn’t private equity owned.

 

Excuse me? So who are Montagu and how much do they own of ParentPay exactly?

Shady, shady, shady.

[Theblacksheep]

"Purchasing a school MIS is invariably a long-term commitment by both customer and supplier. "

 

ironic that SIMS has been sold twice in the last 12 months

[enjay]

As foar functionality now and as it is likely to be in the future... one would assume exactly the same as it is now with no real changes based on the previous 7 years of promises of change not being delivered.

 

Is it fair to judge ESS for the development which Capita didn't make?

[mavhc]

More fair than asking the customers to pay for things that don't yet exist.

 

Is this a business or a gofundme?

[DrCheese]

Is it fair to judge ESS for the development which Capita didn't make?

 

Yes. Because they've owned parentpay and schoolcomms for a while, both of which have had sod all development in years. Parentpay is exactly the same now as it was in 2005. It *still* can't automatically import staff (& treats them like students when you do)

 

Their track record is as rubbish as capita's, so I'll judge them on that.

[paulkerton]

Is it fair to judge ESS for the development which Capita didn't make?

Yes. The ownership is different, but the management is the same.

Also, ParentPay, Schoolcomms and CyPad haven't developed in any way in many years, so...

[enjay]

Yes. The ownership is different, but the management is the same.

 

Different ownership can bring different focus, and different budgets.

 

Also, ParentPay, Schoolcomms and CyPad haven't developed in any way in many years, so...

 

Ah okay, fair point. I'm not particularly familiar with ESS' other products. That said maybe I am, because I used Schoolcomms 3 years ago!

 

Certainly, when we looked at payment and communication tools last year, I remember being surprised how not much had happened in the time since I had used Schoolcomms and evaluated ParentPay at my previous school. Even down to the fact they are still totally separate platforms despite the shared ownership.

[ABR82]

Different ownership can bring different focus, and different budgets.

 

Like a sudden focus on how to extract cash and maintain a monopoly position in the short term, for instance?

[supportman]

To be fair they have said that they are recruiting developers and making "significant" investments into Sims.

 

But I've heard it all before...

 

Add to that, private equity just buys up these sucesful companies and tends to wind down support, management and development overheads to make money. It is literally how they work with little regard for the long term future as their main aim usually is to sell it on for a profit. God knows how they are going to do that with Sims though with a failing product and market saturation. The only way is down!

[Chris_Cook]

Yes. Because they've owned parentpay and schoolcomms for a while, both of which have had sod all development in years. Parentpay is exactly the same now as it was in 2005. It *still* can't automatically import staff (& treats them like students when you do)

 

Their track record is as rubbish as capita's, so I'll judge them on that.

 

 

Its a little bit unfair to say parent pay hasn't changed - they made it more difficult to make a payment for lunch a few years back.

[jmak]

Schoolcomms used to get quite regular updates (at least in terms of features, if not UI)....

 

Until they were bought by ParentPay/ESS - when they also introduced a 3 year term to their renewal contract!

[supportman]

Vote with your feet people!

[paulkerton]

As I said many pages ago, the backfire irony of them trying to force 3 year terms on them and ending up with so many schools furious and ready to move cannot be lost here.

Delicious irony.

[FragglePete]

Vote with your feet people!

 

Will do - just have to be later on down the line. We have long memories.

 

Pete

[mthomas08]

To be fair they have said that they are recruiting developers and making "significant" investments into Sims.

 

But I've heard it all before...

 

Add to that, private equity just buys up these sucesful companies and tends to wind down support, management and development overheads to make money. It is literally how they work with little regard for the long term future as their main aim usually is to sell it on for a profit. God knows how they are going to do that with Sims though with a failing product and market saturation. The only way is down!

 

We have heard it before and that is the problem. Since I joined here, SIMs has generally gone slow and the 'memory errors' which they denied was a problem.. magically fixed themselves 2 years after they admitted they existed.

 

Why have they done this now?

Their market is shrinking and this is the perfect time to force us in to a 3 year contract.

 

Why?

- Christmas period and people are desperately trying to make the break without topping over. How many schools have the time to tender?

- Middle of a pandemic - some staff/students are working from home or covid isolation etc

- They waited until November to tell us when our notice needs to be given by 31st December

- Rival MIS systems seem to be catching up on what SIMs provides while offering other nice things within their packages

 

What better time to do this to schools from their point of view.

 

Even for us, our decision won't be fully made until next week and I wonder how many actually DO leave. Even in 2 and a half years, how many will decide just to stick around....

 

I'm not even confident we will be leaving.

[LeMarchand]

Will do - just have to be later on down the line. We have long memories.

 

bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'

[Andycat]

Our Data Manager was told by our account manager yesterday that the Government are making an announcement today about it all. I would have thought they're still in hiding, but we'll see!

[FragglePete]

I forwarded the last communication from them to my SBM, she noticed the ASCL Logo was at the bottom of the e-mail. They were one of the unions seeking clarification about the legality of the new contract. She is going to contact ACSL if they don't make any comment on ESS's stance.

 

Pete

[mthomas08]

Our Data Manager was told by our account manager yesterday that the Government are making an announcement today about it all. I would have thought they're still in hiding, but we'll see!

 

Account manager at your school or?

 

I've still not heard or seen anything official from the DFE/Government over this. And for us here, we need to know by Tuesday evening. We are making our official decision there and then.