ESS SIMS 3 Year Contracts

[paulkerton]

Lots of talk and good discussion in this thread, but i've yet to see anyone actually move

 

Has anyone taken the jump yet?

 

Our Primary will be moving.

[sister_annex]

Lots of talk and good discussion in this thread, but i've yet to see anyone actually move

 

Has anyone taken the jump yet?

 

We're starting to look (after a number of years trying to convince SLT that it is a good thing to do) however, it is looking likely that we wont be switching till next academic year at the earliest. After discussions with the powers that be they are willing to accept the loss if we do get tied in to a contract but at the moment with the threat of the big O in the new year and having staff at breaking point with workload etc we decided not to push them over the edge with a massive change like this would be on top of everything else.

[supportman]

We're starting to look (after a number of years trying to convince SLT that it is a good thing to do) however, it is looking likely that we wont be switching till next academic year at the earliest. After discussions with the powers that be they are willing to accept the loss if we do get tied in to a contract but at the moment with the threat of the big O in the new year and having staff at breaking point with workload etc we decided not to push them over the edge with a massive change like this would be on top of everything else.

 

I wrote about it earlier but it took our staff about 10mins to learn the new MIS. It really wasnt a big change at all for them. In fact most very much welcomed the new teacher smartphone app that let them do things much quicker.

 

Sure it takes a while to learn from a data manager point of view.

[localzuk]

Has anyone taken the jump yet?

Though the timescales are very limited, everyone still has a few days of term left to decide and sign any dotted lines...

[sister_annex]

I wrote about it earlier but it took our staff about 10mins to learn the new MIS. It really wasnt a big change at all for them. In fact most very much welcomed the new teacher smartphone app that let them do things much quicker.

 

Sure it takes a while to learn from a data manager point of view.

 

You don't know our staff

 

That being said, I know most would relish the opportunity to have something that would work on a phone or at home but that we've decided to wait for now. No doubt there will be some outcry from those stuck in their ways but the way I see it is that it's almost 2022, things change, the world of teaching, the ICT systems in use and how they all integrate with the curriculum and in a pastoral sense too is an ever evolving landscape that teachers (and support staff) need to evolve with alongside.

[mthomas08]

Lots of talk and good discussion in this thread, but i've yet to see anyone actually move

 

Has anyone taken the jump yet?

 

We're in the final stages - got some i's to dot with some minor questions.

 

We're also recommending people give their notice in and then do a u-turn if you change your mind.

 

Our leadership have actually united in leaving SIMs. At the moment it is two questions that need answering regarding certain types of reports but there is a very good chance we will be leaving SIMs.

 

Arbor/iSAMS/Bromcom seem to pretty much do everything that SIMs does.

[Jamman960]

I can't see many schools being in a position to pull off a switch before April in our case I'm initiating a process review in January in the hopes of identifying where a more modern system would improve them, we're in the fortunate position of having our renewal date in September rather than April(independent)

[paulkerton]

I can't see many schools being in a position to pull off a switch before April in our case I'm initiating a process review in January in the hopes of identifying where a more modern system would improve them, we're in the fortunate position of having our renewal date in September rather than April(independent)

I think that depends on the size of the school and how actively it is used.

[mthomas08]

I think that depends on the size of the school and how actively it is used.

 

We use it for everything. I have a lost list of things we use and the process hasn't been as daunting as I thought. BUT - I am aware of how our staff do their job. Having dealt with endless amount of SIMs issues, I had to work closely with people to understand their job.

 

Plus links to EduLink/ParentPay/Wonde/GroupCall - all must haves at the moment.

 

The best thing to say, what we DON'T use SIMs for....

 

We're currently reviewing timetable replacements to help the DHT feel at ease, he raised some good questions and now feels more comfortable.

 

*edit*

We're a typical secondary school/academy with 1500 kids and 200 staff.

Edited December 15, 2021 by mthomas08

[Damon]

As far as I'm aware, our LA (we're a maintained school) is starting the procurement process now-ish. Of course there's a chance we stick with ESS, I think we find out February next year.

 

Interesting as I'd heard of a fair few LA's that are doing this and it means that potentially their schools would need to go single site if they want to stay on SIMS.

 

Anyone else in a situation where their LA is not going to sign the facilitation agreement? I believe it would mean that you wouldn't get the LA discount anymore and have to purchase your own license. If yes, is that what you've been told? Could do with knowing for my school (governor) just in case as I don't have LA contacts there. To be fair to the LA's in this position, arguably they need to do a full procurement for legal reasons as their 3 year cost would be huge.

[paulkerton]

Interesting as I'd heard of a fair few LA's that are doing this and it means that potentially their schools would need to go single site if they want to stay on SIMS.

If I was an LA, or an IPS or however LAs and Schools are organised now, I would absolutely be trying to diversify and provide & support multiple systems rather than going all in on one. Personally.

[garbage46]

"We are no longer offering one-year renewals for core SIMS and FMS products"

 

What exactly is core SIMS? On our renewal quotes we have modules like Assessment Reporting Suite, Attendance, Lesson Monitor, then there is Start-Up Kit II (Core, Reporting, Personnel, SENCO)

Are all modules core SIMS or is the module with "core" Core SIMS?

 

Can I have Core on three years, the modules on one year?

[mthomas08]

What exactly is core SIMS? On our renewal quotes we have modules like Assessment Reporting Suite, Attendance, Lesson Monitor, then there is Start-Up Kit II (Core, Reporting, Personnel, SENCO)

Are all modules core SIMS or is the module with "core" Core SIMS?

 

Can I have Core on three years, the modules on one year?

 

Interesting.. our quote/contract uses the terms:

Assessment Suite Pro (assessment manager, profiles, exams, performance anylysis, discover

Curriculum management Suite (Cover, Options, Nova T)

Registration Suite (Attendance, Lesson Monitor)

SIMs Intouch

Start-up-kit II - (now reading it) this is the CORE, reporting, personnel, senco (so basically... not much)

[Andycat]

From today's DfE Covid email?!?

 

"Information for schools on the renewal and procurement of management information (MI) system contracts

On Friday 19 November, we responded to a number of queries received from schools about proposed changes to contracts for their MIS Systems by saying that we would look into the matter as part of our responsibility for providing commercial and procurement advice and best practice guidance to schools and Academy Trusts.

 

In response to the questions received, our advice is that schools should proceed in connection with the proposed contracts as they ordinarily would when procuring any contract, following the obligations they have as a Contracting Authority (which are there to ensure that schools manage public money compliantly and deliver best value from their budgets).

 

It may be worth noting that multi-year contracts should be considered as a single total overall sum, rather than based on the annual amount (which means schools moving from single-year to multi-year arrangements should check the spend thresholds that apply – in some cases, a move to a multi-year arrangement may mean the current £189,330 threshold set out in the Public Contract Regulations 2015 is crossed that requires a procurement process).

 

For advice on best practice buying procedures please refer to our get help buying for schools guidance or contact [email protected]."

 

Worth waiting for....

[mthomas08]

Just heard that same thing from a rep while doing the tender process.

 

Really not helpful.

 

Basically, you're on your own - good luck!

[localzuk]

I think their view is linked a little to the earlier comments that were made that a lot of schools were not following proper practice with regards MIS procurement anyway, letting it run on forever without any new competition or analysis of needs. So, if schools had been following those rules anyway, this *shouldn't* have been such a shock to the system.

[GeneralDreedle]

Well, we play by the rules. So, with no time to go through tender before 31st Dec we now we have to send a cancellation letter to ESS at 11 Kingsley Lodge, 13 New Cavendish Street, London W1G 9UG.

Drafting it now.

 

The ill-will that this has generated, at a time when schools are already on their knees, is difficult to express politely.

[Ditto]

From today's DfE Covid email?!?

 

"Information for schools on the renewal and procurement of management information (MI) system contracts

On Friday 19 November, we responded to a number of queries received from schools about proposed changes to contracts for their MIS Systems by saying that we would look into the matter as part of our responsibility for providing commercial and procurement advice and best practice guidance to schools and Academy Trusts.

 

In response to the questions received, our advice is that schools should proceed in connection with the proposed contracts as they ordinarily would when procuring any contract, following the obligations they have as a Contracting Authority (which are there to ensure that schools manage public money compliantly and deliver best value from their budgets).

 

It may be worth noting that multi-year contracts should be considered as a single total overall sum, rather than based on the annual amount (which means schools moving from single-year to multi-year arrangements should check the spend thresholds that apply – in some cases, a move to a multi-year arrangement may mean the current £189,330 threshold set out in the Public Contract Regulations 2015 is crossed that requires a procurement process).

 

For advice on best practice buying procedures please refer to our get help buying for schools guidance or contact [email protected]."

 

Worth waiting for....

What a complete waste of electrons from DfE. They've completed ignored the main issue on the timeframe and their earlier advice has now only exacerbated it.

[Ditto]

Anyone know if their school is part of the Stone King collective action - https://schoolsweek.co.uk/400-schools-sign-up-to-take-collective-action-against-sims/

Clearly, SK view things differently to DfE.

[mthomas08]

The ill-will that this has generated, at a time when schools are already on their knees, is difficult to express politely.

 

We discussed this exact thing during the SLT meeting.

-Pandemic

-Short notice period when 31st DEC is around the corner

-Christmas period

-We were already starting a tender process before this hit (we wanted another 1 year contract)

 

What a fantastic time to hit us with this.

 

The good news is, it does look like the closest rivals of SIMs pretty much do a full 'like for like' replacement. The major questions have evolved around things like Parents Evening (which we have EduLink for) and any other systems that could be replaced which relies on SIMs data (ParentPay).

 

Our decision got delayed to allow further questions to be answered. Our decision to leave SIMs occurred Tuesday but now it's a question of which company we go to.

[supportman]

Regarding Parents evenings, we moved to:

 

SchoolCloud Parents Evening

 

Since there are no logins for parents other than knowning their childs details, it took about 30mins to setup and get working. Also allowed remote parents evenings which was a bonus.

[Ditto]

As school census returns include the school MIS in use, next year is going to interesting to watch in turns of churn. I'd be interested in any predictions from @bringmoredata, but in time we will know the impact of the recent forced contractual changes. Personally, I suspect we will see records broken in terms of churn, but that SIMS will hold on to more than we might expect, and that'll bring ESS a certain amount of guaranteed income for the next three years.

[supportman]

Seems to me that most people are simply frienghtend to move. 35 pages of discussion and only 1 primary confirmed to have moved.

 

I've tried my best in this thread to show how easy it was for us to move away from Sims as a large secondary, but there are still so many comments about SLT not being on board or "not having enough time". We had all those issues and still made it work

 

Feels really sad to me that all these schools will be using a legacy MIS until at least 2024...

[Jamman960]

I think the real problem is that SLT's and admin teams don't see the problem with Sims, it works for them and with it being so complex they've had to invest a serious amount of effort to get it working in a way that works for them. In my school I'm the only one particularly keen to push this forward although our new head is coming from a school already using iSAMS and has already been through a migration which is going to be a massive help.

 

I'm planning to approach this from a process review angle, how are we doing things now and how can alternative systems improve on this? can we reduce the number of systems we use and provide better value for all stakeholders in the process. I've been planning it for a few years but Covid, major management changes have pushed it further along the road. I'm still worried that Covid may still de-rail this although the Sept 22(in our case) deadline seems to have increased willingness to at least look at alternatives.

[Ditto]

I absolutely have seen the same with SLT and trust leadership all the way to the top. What they are also completely missing, is the fact that the are spending public money and not fulfilling the role of spending/investing accordingly. Whether full procurement or not, that should happen with all significant school spend, whether it's school meals contracts, cleaning contracts, IT support contracts or MIS software contracts.