ESS SIMS 3 Year Contracts

[Zoom7000]

Just got this email from Stone King if anyone is interested in attending.

 

Urgent Client Briefing – ESS SIMS Contract Renewal

 

We are being contacted by schools and Academy Trust clients who are very concerned about how to respond to the contract renewal notices they are receiving from ESS, which propose a minimum contract term of 3 years going forward. Given what appears to be an automatic renewal in the event of no response, clients must urgently review their options. We have prepared this briefing to alert clients to this issue and to invite clients who might be affected to get in touch and to participate in a webinar we are arranging for 11am on Thursday 2 December, at which we will review whether the actions of ESS may be the subject of a legal challenge.

 

Whilst not all schools and Academy Trusts will necessarily be troubled by the new 3-year deal, it is likely to be of particular concern to those considering migration to another supplier. However, schools and Academy Trusts cannot simply renew with ESS without complying with the public procurement rules, which all schools and Academy Trusts therefore need to consider, along with securing best value for money.

 

Time: Dec 2, 2021 11:00 AM GMT

 

Register here.

 

[Seb1780]

We had a message from the LA this morning stating "as an LA maintained school we ask you continue to renew via us on a yearly basis" - it'll be interesting to see how this pans out.

 

AFAIK, we haven't been appoached directly but the message also says "...ESS asking schools to sign a 3-year contract directly with themselves, rather than via the LA for SIMS.net and FMS licences"

[Jawloms]

We had a message from the LA this morning stating "as an LA maintained school we ask you continue to renew via us on a yearly basis"

 

 

I've seen that email too. We are an academy and buy direct from ESS. AFAIK all the academies around here buy SIMS direct from ESS rather than through the LA. Is that because they aren't allowed to buy it through the LA, and if not, why not? Can we go back to the LA for annual renewals and give ESS notice? I am aware that this would mean we can't contact ESS for support and would have to go to the LA for that too.

[Ditto]

I do wonder how strong the anti-competitive argument is in this saga. It would be interesting if a school or MAT submit a complaint to the Office of Fair Trading. I suspect the private equity firm has considerable access to legal advice, but if OFT accepted the complaint, it could change the landscape.

[localzuk]

I do wonder how strong the anti-competitive argument is in this saga. It would be interesting if a school or MAT submit a complaint to the Office of Fair Trading. I suspect the private equity firm has considerable access to legal advice, but if OFT accepted the complaint, it could change the landscape.

I think the other MIS providers would be better placed - this effectively forces ESS to have a locked in monopoly for 3 years, meaning the other companies basically get no new business during that time.

[Ditto]

I think the other MIS providers would be better placed - this effectively forces ESS to have a locked in monopoly for 3 years, meaning the other companies basically get no new business during that time.

Yes, that would make sense. I would expect the legal aspect has been discussed by the bigger players in the MIS market.

 

***EDIT - it made me smile that a competitor MIS advert was on screen whilst I typed this. It said "12 month contracts available"! ***

Edited November 30, 2021 by Ditto

[mthomas08]

It said "12 month contracts available"! ***

 

I've looked at 3 other MIS products and they offer a 12 month contract.

[garbage46]

I've seen that email too. We are an academy and buy direct from ESS. AFAIK all the academies around here buy SIMS direct from ESS rather than through the LA. Is that because they aren't allowed to buy it through the LA, and if not, why not? Can we go back to the LA for annual renewals and give ESS notice? I am aware that this would mean we can't contact ESS for support and would have to go to the LA for that too.

 

Academies have the freedom to sign SLA's and contract with the provider of their choice, this includes your LA. Out MAT still has a number of SLA's with our LA.

Similarly, you can get your support from your preferred supplier; ESS, LA or other provider

[garbage46]

So, I have just emailed our ESS account manager for some updates and received an automated response... I wonder if they also went to Arbor/Bromcom/insert MIS here

Thank you for your email. I am no longer working for ESS, but don't worry [redacted] will be able to support you. Her email address is [email protected]

[mthomas08]

So, I have just emailed our ESS account manager for some updates and received an automated response... I wonder if they also went to Arbor/Bromcom/insert MIS here

 

We got a phone call back within 3 days and he provided us with his direct email address to contact.

 

I'm now booking a slot for our 2nd MIS review and then the 3rd.

 

Already had 1 seminar demo and that looked highly impressive. It was recorded so I can pass this on to our staff and they can watch when they want.

 

Two can offer fast track switch overs but that requires sign up by the 17th DEC. I get the feeling the 3rd will offer the same knowing full well that some have ditched SIMs. Quite a few in the seminar are in our position.

Edited December 1, 2021 by mthomas08

[enjay]

Just had this statement from our outsourced DPO. They specialise in DPO services in schools.

 

"As a very short summary, you should refuse to sign any contract change unless you consider the procurement requirements of the DfE and conduct an impact assessment with your DPO as dictated by 70(1) of the DPA 2018.

$ at this stage does not consider ESS in the claimed form to meet the obligations of a compliant Processor"

 

So now there is a DPA angle too.

My outsourced DPO is happy for me to share their name, but to avoid any risk of advertising, I've not mentioned them here, but I can respond to PMs.

 

You and I have the same DPO. I would suggest a very large pinch of salt with their advice on this particular topic, as they have an almost vendetta-like loathing of FMS and paint with a very large brush as a result. Elsewhere in the article you're quoting, they say "all current educational software is not fit for purpose" :-D

[Ditto]

You and I have the same DPO. I would suggest a very large pinch of salt with their advice on this particular topic, as they have an almost vendetta-like loathing of FMS and paint with a very large brush as a result. Elsewhere in the article you're quoting, they say "all current educational software is not fit for purpose" :-D

I deal mostly with the CEO and I understand where you are coming from and there are some forthright views! I'm familiar with the quote and there's a lot more detail behind it but it focuses on the 'Accountability and Governance' part of GDPR, in particular the concept of 'Data protection by design and default'. I'll not go down that rabbit hole in this thread, but with several hundred schools using this DPO, it's likely what they say has some influence. The parent MAT of my local primary school governance also use them. I have emailed the trust to get some feedback, but currently a wall of silence.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Ditto

[synaesthesia]

they have an almost vendetta-like loathing of FMS and paint with a very large brush as a result :-D

 

And this is a bad thing, why? The only positive thing ANYONE has to say about FMS is "we've used it since 1832, it works and we know it"

[enjay]

And this is a bad thing, why? The only positive thing ANYONE has to say about FMS is "we've used it since 1832, it works and we know it"

 

Hating FMS is absolutely fine but not using it as key evidence for the claim all education products are unfit for purpose.

[paulkerton]

Hating FMS is absolutely fine but not using it as key evidence for the claim all education products are unfit for purpose.

 

Were they claiming all products, or just the ones ESS has collected like FMS, or NOVA-T, Options Module...

[enjay]

Were they claiming all products, or just the ones ESS has collected like FMS, or NOVA-T, Options Module...

 

Their wording is always "all products" and it is a claim they've been making since before ESS acquired SIMS.

[supportman]

There was some discussion earlier about the time it takes to "onboard" to a different MIS once purchased. Bromcom released a video about it today.

 

 

Actual data migration is 3 to 5 days, but looks like its about 4 weeks currently to move complete systems with training.

[mthomas08]

Arbor / iSAMS / Bromcom

All offering a fast boarding option to get people switched over quick including the migration of SIMs data.

 

Nice to see.

[ABR82]

We got sent a lovely pdf from SIMS today regarding how nobody wants change, nobody wants anything new and that different things are full of fear, whilst also claiming that you can drive change using SIMS, when the entire remainder of the pdf is crowing about their lack of change. Wonder if everyone else has had them?

 

Perhaps if they actually had something to show or sell to people they ought to have done so before attempting to tie everyone in for 3 years without them realising or giving them time to make decisions. Very much looks like a reaction to the daft process they've started and presumably the number of people looking to move elsewhere.

[paulkerton]

We got sent a lovely pdf from SIMS today regarding how nobody wants change, nobody wants anything new and that different things are full of fear, whilst also claiming that you can drive change using SIMS, when the entire remainder of the pdf is crowing about their lack of change. Wonder if everyone else has had them

If that's something generic you've been sent - any chance you could share it with us all?

[GrumbleDook]

I love marketing and sales spin.

 

"Lack of change means stagnant products", "Refusal to change shows poorunderstanding of users", "Limited vision slows down progress in schools".

 

"Stability of functionality", "rigorous change process, ensuring improving functionality meets customer needs and requests", "Established features and functionality that have a strong track record on supporting school improvement".

 

Two different groups talking about the same thing.

 

This is an argument about contract length and any risk included within that.

[localzuk]

All that everyone can do now is go through your internal processes, and see where they lead you.

 

For us, that's getting demos of all the options (including demos of bits of SIMS we're not using), getting pricing, drawing up how we're going to decide and then deciding... All in the next 2 weeks. HA *melts from stress*

[Andycat]

We're cancelling, even if we have to go back cap in hand in March. SLT investigating going back to LA in meantime.

[supportman]

We're cancelling, even if we have to go back cap in hand in March. SLT investigating going back to LA in meantime.

Since the Sims license is perpetual, this makes the most sense to me for anyone stuck what to do. Its not like there is a switch off date if you do that.

 

Sims will continue to work even after April 2022, all you would need to do was sign the renewal anytime after the date and simply get updates again.

 

Saying that, I would advise everyone to do what @localzuk is doing and look at the 4 major competitors who all have good MIS products ASAP.

[enjay]

Sims will continue to work even after April 2022, all you would need to do was sign the renewal anytime after the date and simply get updates again.

 

But only until August, when we'll almost certainly need the Summer 2022 update in order to import exam results. If we dodge that, we'll need Summer 2022 for staff workforce census. If we dodge both of those, we'll need Autumn 2022 for student census.