Coronavirus: General discussion (see opening post for rules)

[StevieM]

The problem is that many small business owners are seeing their life's work going down the pan and many are in areas where they have never seen or heard of anyone with Covid-19, so it is very hard for them to be all altruistic and feel that the lockdowns and restrictions are for the greater good.

I did a quick straw poll this morning and no child in the school - 350 pupils - has presented with Covid-19 symptoms, no adult has had it and we have one member of staff isolating as a relative might have it, and one whose Uncle died of Covid-19 and other complications back in March.

Most of my friends don't know anyone who has had it other than one who, with her husband, had it the week before lockdown.

So everything seems pretty normal around here at the moment.

 

I get that and I do sympathise with people who are genuinely struggling to survive, especially where Covid cases are low. However, I'm assuming @mikeprice's post is referring to a gym in the only place in the country currently under Tier 3 restrictions due to very high infection rates. There are also small business owners who flout the rules because 'you can't catch what doesn't exist.' In such cases, any related Covid deaths would be, in my opinion, corporate manslaughter.

[the_quick]

There is NO agreement about Greater Manchester - as your linked article says

[Ditto]

My highlighting - it should say or use out of date software that loses data!

[elsiegee40]

There is NO agreement about Greater Manchester - as your linked article says

 

At the time of posting it said it was happening. This has changed with Matt Hancock’s announcement just now. I was just heading to edit my post

 

EDIT

My earlier post has now been edited

Edited October 15, 2020 by elsiegee40

[LeMarchand]

A member of staff at one of my schools is now off after having tested positive. (One of the nice ones, of course ). They've instituted stricter face covering rules and have bought in some of the "visor" masks.

 

 

1. These are a darn site more comfortable/breathable than the more common sort
   
2. I don't see how they prevent much in either direction
   
3. I can't believe that the neighbour's dentist is charging +£8/visit for having to provide their staff with the same
   

[mikeprice]

A member of staff at one of my schools is now off after having tested positive. (One of the nice ones, of course ). They've instituted stricter face covering rules and have bought in some of the "visor" masks.

 

 

1. These are a darn site more comfortable/breathable than the more common sort
   
2. I don't see how they prevent much in either direction
   
3. I can't believe that the neighbour's dentist is charging +£8/visit for having to provide their staff with the same
   

 

Everything I have seen says that the visors have almost no effect at all on virus transmission

 

they are better than nothing - but not by much

[Andrew_C]

I think that the visors, in a clinical situation, are an adjunct to a mask. They would reduce the chances of the virus getting in through your eyes. Yes, that IS a thing. But only where there is a lot of it about.

[jthompson]

My understanding is that visors are to protect the wearer against liquid splash or spray. Yum!

[6Foot2]

[stevejp]

Noticed that the town where I grew up was in the news yesterday - so I checked

 

Apparently the is a Gym there now - near the roundabout - and the owner was in the paper saying he was going to keep open anyway and ignore the new rules

 

the article says he was on the TV news as well

 

so this morning - strangely - he opens up and the cops turn up and warn him that he will get fined is he doesn't close

they left but he stayed open

So - strangely - they came back - and he got a £1000 fine

 

he is expecting a GoFundMe campaign to pay for it

 

idiot

 

And the worst thing? He’ll get his money ( and probably more) because another equally idiotic bunch (other adjectives are available) will be stupid enough to put their hands in their pockets.

[nicholab]

Will I get my money back for the Ferry company I booked to go and see my parents at half term in London? Will I get my money back from the London eye? I am so cross why did they not do it before half term or after. I not seen my family for over a year why does it not count as essential travel?

[mikeprice]

Now this has gone tooo far

 

 

He's only gone and done it

 

I mean

 

this is serious

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/15/sale-alcohol-banned-in-house-of-commons-coronavirus

 

How can the place function!!!

 

 

Questions will be asked in the house

 

Dear Boris

 

actions have consequences

 

Yours sincerely

 

everyone

[StevieM]

And the worst thing? He’ll get his money ( and probably more) because another equally idiotic bunch (other adjectives are available) will be stupid enough to put their hands in their pockets.

If it's the same one I've read about, he'd already raised £31K by yesterday evening. I hope he remembers to declare it on his tax return...

 

On the subject of flouting the rules, while I was walking Ciara the dog in the park, this morning, I saw three uniformed NHS workers in the park next door to a health centre facing each other less than 1m apart having a fag break. Good to see that they're taking things seriously.

[jthompson]

And the worst thing? He’ll get his money ( and probably more) because another equally idiotic bunch (other adjectives are available) will be stupid enough to put their hands in their pockets.

I wonder how many donors were on their doorstep every Thursday, all the way back in the Spring. You couldn't get much more of a contrast, imho.

[StevieM]

Will I get my money back for the Ferry company I booked to go and see my parents at half term in London? Will I get my money back from the London eye?

Probably.

 

I am so cross why did they not do it before half term or after.

Because viruses don't stick to termly timetables.

 

I not seen my family for over a year why does it not count as essential travel?

Because it's not - unless it's an emergency, in which case I'm sure you'd be allowed to 'follow your instincts'. I can't imagine riding the London Eye will save anyone's life, though.

 

I do understand your frustration. Please try to remember that it's not just you who is unable to see their family. Please also try to remember that, due to this virus, there are thousands of people who will never see some members of their family again.

 

Hang in there, @nicholab, and do the right thing.

[Simcfc73]

Maybe they should use these flouters for the clinical trial and get them to sign a waver for any future hospital treatment.

[paulkerton]

Noticed that the town where I grew up was in the news yesterday - so I checked

 

Apparently the is a Gym there now - near the roundabout - and the owner was in the paper saying he was going to keep open anyway and ignore the new rules

 

the article says he was on the TV news as well

 

so this morning - strangely - he opens up and the cops turn up and warn him that he will get fined is he doesn't close

they left but he stayed open

So - strangely - they came back - and he got a £1000 fine

 

he is expecting a GoFundMe campaign to pay for it

 

idiot

 

I can't begin to explain my fury at this idiot

 

But the Gofundme terms of service say

 

for the legal defence of alleged crimes associated with hate, violence, harassment, bullying, discrimination, terrorism, or intolerance of any kind relating to race, ethnicity, national origin, religious affiliation, sexual orientation, sex, gender, gender identity, gender expression, serious disabilities or diseases, financial crimes or crimes of deception;

 

So fingers crossed Gofundme shut him down.​

[Ditto]

Now this has gone tooo far

 

 

He's only gone and done it

 

I mean

 

this is serious

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/15/sale-alcohol-banned-in-house-of-commons-coronavirus

 

How can the place function!!!

 

 

Questions will be asked in the house

 

Dear Boris

 

actions have consequences

 

Yours sincerely

 

everyone

I hear this came about via the National Policy Lottery Draw

[mavhc]

I saw three uniformed NHS workers in the park next door to a health centre facing each other less than 1m apart having a fag break. Good to see that they're taking things seriously.

 

They weren't taking their health seriously last year, why start this year? Some people aren't smart.

 

Meanwhile in the "let's just secretly go with the herd immunity thing without telling anyone" camp:

 

'after the release of documents from the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) committee, showing that three weeks ago it advised that all universities should revert to online teaching.'

 

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/oct/14/university-staff-angry-that-covid-teaching-advice-was-ignored

[Andrew_C]

The elephant in the room - "Herd Immunity" is the ONLY answer.

 

Trying to get there without a vaccine, and allowing 390,000* people to die to achieve it, is immoral.

 

 

*For herd immunity to work, about 60% of your population have to be immune, and currently, about 1% of those infected die. Round figures, and I'm sure someone will find different figures, but it is something close to this in general terms.

[paulkerton]

The elephant in the room - "Herd Immunity" is the ONLY answer.

 

There is no evidence that immunity occurs when you catch it. There is more evidence that any immunity that you do get is temporary.

Herd immunity is no answer at all. Unless you're a eugenicist.

The only answer is an effective vaccine, be it one that works temporarily like the flu jabs, or one that has more long term immunity effect.

Edited October 16, 2020 by paulkerton

[StevieM]

They weren't taking their health seriously last year, why start this year?

It's not their health I'm concerned about! They can smoke as much as they like, as long as they don't huddle up, unmasked, in public, in an area with very high Covid-19 infection rates...and then go back inside to treat members of the public.

[Andrew_C]

There is no evidence that immunity occurs when you catch it.

There is SOME evidence that you DON'T become immune, or for how long.

[bald_pig]

Moot points, herd immunity is achieved via vaccination.

[Andrew_C]

Moot points, herd immunity is achieved via vaccination.

Only recently. Over millennia we have become immune, or resistant, to hundreds of diseases without vaccination.

 

I accept that with the current state of the world, with near instantaneous travel to anywhere on the planet, the sort of changes required to protect us are unlikely to develop fast enough to protect us.