richmackie Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 Apologies if this is in the wrong place. One of my schools - middle school, fairly large site but without a lot of money to spend - has asked me about getting a CCTV system up and running. A previous technician set up something but it was defunct before I got involved. There are some IP cameras still dotted around the building - not connected to anything - but instead of a DVR they had a Windows PC located in the server room. I think someone's got it into their head that I could resurrect the existing cameras and build my own server. As interesting as that would be, I don't think it would be a good idea. Bringing in a professional outfit and having them install a managed system is deemed too expensive, but has anybody out there had any joy with an off-the-shelf system from someone like Swann? The caretaker has seen Swann systems on Screwfix and is keen on something similar. I don't want to dismiss that out of hand but I also don't want to end up with them buying something unsuitable and then me spending ages trying to make it work. Cheers.
Jawloms Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 iSpy - open source CCTV which will recognise hundreds of IP cameras. 1
HBPS Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 what is a rough budget and how many cameras PS not a salesman
localzuk Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) Cheap systems are generally not great quality. Personally, I'd recommend you look at the Ubiquiti Unifi CCTV stuff. 30fps 1080p IP camera is £110, with weather proof, 4k options too etc... Unifi NVR with 2TB disk that can handle up to 20 cameras is £300. Cheaper than big name stuff, but better than the cheapo stuff. We have put it in to 2 of our schools now. Hikvision have a cheaper range too, the HiWatch stuff. 4MP dome is £53. Appears to be limited to 8 channels per NVR though. Edited June 4, 2019 by localzuk 1
Sibrows Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 We're got a mixture of Gen 2 and Gen 3 UniFi cameras across our site. Very happy with them, had one of the Gen 2 UVC Pros fail due to water ingress but that was identified as the firm fitting them hadn't bothered with the waterproof glad on the end. We've just put in our 50th camera, started at 10 4 years ago and grew it as budget permitted. 1
chazzy2501 Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 I've just setup a unifi G3 pro setup, with 3 cameras and the 2tb NVR and I can say that it was an extreme pain in the butt, please avoid. 1
localzuk Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 I've just setup a unifi G3 pro setup, with 3 cameras and the 2tb NVR and I can say that it was an extreme pain in the butt, please avoid. How so? Took us about 15 mins to get ours set up - plug the cameras in, plug the NVR in, adopt the cameras on the NVR, done... What issues did you have?
Arthur Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 Cheap systems are generally not great quality. Swann was in the news last year regarding their poor security. scotthelme.co.uk/hacking-iot-cameras bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44628399 1
steveg Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 We use luxriot software here on a server. The free version supports a few cameras, I run the free version at home. Steve 1
richmackie Posted June 4, 2019 Author Posted June 4, 2019 Oddly enough no specifics have been mentioned at this point. There is one specific area they want to monitor (kids climbing on the roof at weekends) so I'd have thought a couple of cameras initially but obviously you want scope to add more. As far as costs are concerned I suspect the school are thinking hundreds rather than thousands. That was my thinking behind the original post, because if the only way to do it is to get a company in and spend the money, I'd rather not get involved. what is a rough budget and how many cameras PS not a salesman
dhicks Posted June 4, 2019 Posted June 4, 2019 I think someone's got it into their head that I could resurrect the existing cameras and build my own server. You main issue with siteing CCTV cameras is probably going to be network access - do you have network ports somewhere near the areas you want to place cameras, or would you need to run more cabling? Ideally, you'd have switches that support PoE to power the cameras, but you can always use PoE injectors at the switch end of things to make individual ports PoE-capable. We use Ubiquiti cameras here, about a dozen over the school. Their software is easy enough to install on pretty much whatever hardware you have available - you could probably buy a second-hand rack server or NAS with a reasonable storage capacity, plus some cameras, for around £1,000 in total. 1
chazzy2501 Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 1, NVR and cameras had incompatible firmware so wouldn't talk. 2, NVR auto update can't work through a proxy but doesn't say that so falsely clamed to be up to date. (wasted half a day on that) 3, NVR auto update fails (when on a standard network) a problem discoverd in the forums over a month prior. (no plans to fix this but had a hack using ssh) 4, NVR installing putty to execute a script to allow 64bit something to work on the NVR and allow the updates to work again. (after finding the hidden allow ssh in local login) 5, A G3 Pro failed its firmware update and became unusable, another use of putty and (new to me) pscp to transfer via SSH a new firmware. (sarcastic unifi forums unhelpful here) had to use a 3rd party forum to get that fix. 6, User registration HAS to use full Google Chrome, no other browser will work. 7, You have to use Google Chrome (no other browser works, at all) 8, The app allows to to register a new account but NOT associate with an NVR (end up making all users accounts for site staff on a domestic laptop with chrome) Great hardware , poor software, worse support. This is NOT an enterprise class bit of kit and is far too complex for the average user. I don't know who it is for. Edited June 5, 2019 by chazzy2501 1
localzuk Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 1, NVR and cameras had incompatible firmware so wouldn't talk. 2, NVR auto update can't work through a proxy but doesn't say that so falsely clamed to be up to date. (wasted half a day on that) 3, NVR auto update fails (when on a standard network) a problem discoverd in the forums over a month prior. (no plans to fix this but had a hack using ssh) 4, NVR installing putty to execute a script to allow 64bit something to work on the NVR and allow the updates to work again. (after finding the hidden allow ssh in local login) 5, A G3 Pro failed its firmware update and became unusable, another use of putty and (new to me) pscp to transfer via SSH a new firmware. (sarcastic unifi forums unhelpful here) had to use a 3rd party forum to get that fix. 6, User registration HAS to use full Google Chrome, no other browser will work. 7, You have to use Google Chrome (no other browser works, at all) 8, The app allows to to register a new account but NOT associate with an NVR (end up making all users accounts for site staff on a domestic laptop with chrome) Great hardware , poor software, worse support. This is NOT an enterprise class bit of kit and is far too complex for the average user. I don't know who it is for. Ah, I didn't face any of that - cameras were adopted straight away, updates worked (we use a transparent proxy), and we use Google Chrome anyway. Seems like you had a rough experience. It isn't enterprise, that's definitely true. Its SMB class really. 1
richmackie Posted June 5, 2019 Author Posted June 5, 2019 I think SMB class is acceptable for a middle school as long as the expectations aren't too high. They have transparent proxy and PoE in most areas for wireless APs so installation shouldn't be too much of a stretch.
synaesthesia Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Not heard of Luxriot before, looks alright - hardware specs are just as laughable as everywhere else though
calwyn Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 I have over the last three years installed several (six I think) of these budget packages https://www.amazon.co.uk/SANNCE-Professional-Weatherproof-Surveillance-Smartphone/dp/B074TF2F1K/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=sannce+8+cctv+camera&qid=1559902451&s=gateway&sr=8-9 They are really cheap but the picture quality is decent, and I've not yet had any failures yet. The oldest kit will be three years old. All of the cameras are cabled using cat5 & baluns so there is no network load added, but the DVR's claim to accept IP cameras too. They also can be managed via the network so you can view the video (Live or recorded) remotely. Calwyn 1
mavhc Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 If you already have the IP cameras just add a large harddrive to a PC and let it record, lots of open source software options. Question is do you use the stream directly from the IP camera without re-encoding, or have a faster PC that will encode for you. Total cost £200 for a 10GB hdd. https://github.com/ccrisan/motioneyeos/wiki https://www.ispyconnect.com/
Anonimouse Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 I've installed a few large-scale CCTV systems in my time; the next one happens to be this summer break! In summary, be careful with regards to Ubiquiti. Their cameras and software do receive high praise - and the prices of their equipment is incredibly tempting - but Ubiquiti is not ONVIF compatible. This means you cannot mix and match camera manufacturers on a Ubiquiti system, which isn't the end of the world. However by not choosing to be ONVIF compatible, Ubiquiti have turned their backs on the one organisation that ensures there is a global open standard for physical IP-based security products. Why would you do that? Suffice to say, if you install a large Ubiquiti system and the company decides to cease making cameras, you're somewhat stuffed if you want to extend or replace cameras! I didn't look into this, but Ubiquiti also produce switches. Do you need to use their switches in conjunction with their cameras/NVR, or does the equipment run through any manufacturer of switch? I personally like Avigilon, but this is a more expensive solution. For one of our schools this summer, we've opted for a 40 camera HIKVision system. Good specs, good software, good price! ONVIF compatible too. Another school local to us has just installed a very similar HIKVision system, so be sure to check them out! 1
PotNoodleTech Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 I didn't look into this, but Ubiquiti also produce switches. Do you need to use their switches in conjunction with their cameras/NVR, or does the equipment run through any manufacturer of switch? No you can use the ubiquiti cameras on any make of switch. But I agree with you about the "lock in" being a problem, and also they do not make anywhere near a varied enough range of cameras (focal lengths, mounting options, PTZ etc) so I went with Hikvision instead.
Andycat Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 I personally like Avigilon, but this is a more expensive solution. For one of our schools this summer, we've opted for a 40 camera HIKVision system. Good specs, good software, good price! ONVIF compatible too. Another school local to us has just installed a very similar HIKVision system, so be sure to check them out! We're Avigilon, with a mix of old Panasonic cameras, Avigilons and some cheaper Hikvision. Good system, but pricey comparably. A lot easier to use though!
mrbios Posted June 19, 2019 Posted June 19, 2019 I started replacing our old CCTV system with Hikvision IP cams a year ago. Currently have 26 cameras under a desk in my office ready to be installed this summer, alongside the existing 24 that i've put in place. Overall the hikvision stuff is great, it's cheap (£50-80 a camera for the most part, buying them through millgate) with a few out door ones being a touch more expensive. Only negative is that i went for a hikvision NVR and that seems to be very buggy....connect via web page and it'll sometimes just crap out to login page again, if you leave it on connected monitoring cameras too long it'll sometimes just lockup and you have to refresh and log back in, the iVMS software i unfortunately can't get to load at all, although the ivms lite software seems to work a lot better, but can be prone to crashing if you view too many cameras at once. Can't export video from ivms lite without it breaking the recording file though, have to open web browser view for that...so lots of weird niggley bugs. So cameras = good, NVR = bad, but you can use the cameras with a lot of different solutions, not locked into a hikvision NVR. 1
sonofsanta Posted June 19, 2019 Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) Cheap systems are generally not great quality. Personally, I'd recommend you look at the Ubiquiti Unifi CCTV stuff. 30fps 1080p IP camera is £110, with weather proof, 4k options too etc... Unifi NVR with 2TB disk that can handle up to 20 cameras is £300. Cheaper than big name stuff, but better than the cheapo stuff. We have put it in to 2 of our schools now. Hikvision have a cheaper range too, the HiWatch stuff. 4MP dome is £53. Appears to be limited to 8 channels per NVR though. Slightly off-topic question--can you access the Unifi cameras via their IP to watch directly on a webpage? Reason I ask: our school hall isn't big enough to fit everyone in. When we do whole school stuff (handover, pantomimes etc.) a couple of year groups have to sit in the gym, and we set up a projector to stream from an old IP camera on the ceiling of the hall. But this camera is oooold, and terrible, and we have to keep an XP laptop on hand specifically to handle it... but any newer cameras have always been near a grand when I've looked (granted, not for a few years) and it's not a common enough requirement to warrant spending that money. If a Unifi camera can give us a decent upgrade for £100, though, it might be worth looking at for this summer. Especially if they do PTZ cameras (ETA: I've got no issue with Hikvision either, if they do this, just that we have Unifi APs already so I'm inclined to trust & like Unifi kit) Edited June 19, 2019 by sonofsanta
caffrey Posted June 19, 2019 Posted June 19, 2019 The cameras have RTSP streams so yes a webpage shouldn't be an issue, I used to run a Raspberry Pi as a monitor for one camera. You can also limit access to certain cameras per user and put the unifi App on an iPad and use that too 1
CyBeRkId2002 Posted June 19, 2019 Posted June 19, 2019 We have both Ubiquiti and Hikvision in-house. As much as I love the ubiquiti wifi I don't think their CCTV is up to much and you can get far more for your money with Hikvision. Software is much more user-friendly too!
mavhc Posted June 19, 2019 Posted June 19, 2019 Weird to hear people call the hikvision software good, what are you using? What version? I mostly just bypass it all
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