ESS SIMS 3 Year Contracts

[LeMarchand]

I've tried my best in this thread to show how easy it was for us to move away from Sims as a large secondary, but there are still so many comments about SLT not being on board or "not having enough time". We had all those issues and still made it work

 

Yep, I've done it (admittedly in 3 Primaries) and it was less hassle than dealing with SIMS problems would have been during the couple of weeks of "handover".

[Jamman960]

Sims is still the HP of the MIS world, nobody ever got fired for sticking with the "Market Leader" and Sims is still a very safe bet unfortunately, they're also making all the right noises with their Next Gen claims so no ones going to criticise anyone for staying put, we can scream as much as we want but ultimately Sims works "well enough"

[paulkerton]

Sims is still the HP of the MIS world, nobody ever got fired for sticking with the "Market Leader" and Sims is still a very safe bet unfortunately, they're also making all the right noises with their Next Gen claims so no ones going to criticise anyone for staying put, we can scream as much as we want but ultimately Sims works "well enough"

 

I went to an event once where HP, Lenovo, Acer and Asus all got up to speak one after the other - all four claimed "Market Leader" for some area or another.

 

But that's the thing. They might be making noises, but it's the same noises we've heard for 8 years now.

[paulkerton]

As school census returns include the school MIS in use, next year is going to interesting to watch in turns of churn. I'd be interested in any predictions from @bringmoredata, but in time we will know the impact of the recent forced contractual changes. Personally, I suspect we will see records broken in terms of churn, but that SIMS will hold on to more than we might expect, and that'll bring ESS a certain amount of guaranteed income for the next three years.

I'd summise the same. I think SIMS will be down to 60-65% market share pretty soon, but that'll hold steady with the three year agreement (though obviously there are LA/Support Company agreements which may shift that in the years to come.)

 

What is going to be fascinating however, is what actually develops over the next three years and what the product will look like in December 22, 23 and 24. Let me just say, if 18 months into your new three years nothing much, if anything, has changed - I will not be surprised in the slightest.

[steven_layton_sl]

Well, thats our notice given, and we will start a procurement process in the New Year. We'll still include SIMS as, despite them shafting everyone, it does have some merits. Edited December 17, 2021 by steven_layton_sl

[Andycat]

Well, thats our notice given, and we will start a procurement process in the New Year. We'll still include SIMS as, despite them shafting everyone, it does have so merits.

 

We're exactly the same here

[mavhc]

in 2.9 years they'll promote their market share and sell it to some new sucker

[paulkerton]

Well, our notice is in and our order for our new MIS is also in.

 

Looking forward to helping our Primary forward.

 

Well, thats our notice given, and we will start a procurement process in the New Year. We'll still include SIMS as, despite them shafting everyone, it does have some merits.

 

Just remember to include all costs, be it self-hosting (so server, SQL, backup, costing out doing the SOLUS upgrade work) or the hosting costs for "SIMS Connected" which are not included in the price compared to other solutions out there.

Edited December 17, 2021 by paulkerton

[mthomas08]

Seems to me that most people are simply frienghtend to move. 35 pages of discussion and only 1 primary confirmed to have moved.

 

Secondary school here and the decision has been made - we are giving notice.

 

Most of SLT seemed happy to move from SIMs and not much positive to say about it. HT hit fury regarding the 3 year forced contract.

Edited December 17, 2021 by mthomas08

[dobsonl]

We are moving all 11 (10 primaries) schools with notice already provided and new contracts signed today.

[Wubbalubbadub]

We are a large trust of 21 schools, and are now at the final stage of the procurement process. We will be giving notice to SIMS/ESS next week. I honestly can't wait!

[steven_layton_sl]

Is there an 'oven baked, ready to go' best practice procurement process for MISs? I'll need to put my foot down in the New Year. Also, any advice, or gotchas to be aware of?

[Wubbalubbadub]

Is there an 'oven baked, ready to go' best practice procurement process for MISs? I'll need to put my foot down in the New Year. Also, any advice, or gotchas to be aware of?

 

If you want an "Oven ready" option, then look at getting one of these to help:

G-Cloud 12 - CCS (crowncommercial.gov.uk)

Everything ICT | ICT Procurement Framework | DfE Recommended

 

They are DfE approved for tenders and procurement. They presumably get a commission from the winning incumbent, and so doesn't cost you anything.

 

We went through Everything ICT, who were pretty good and made it easier.

 

In terms of advice, when you get your scoring sheet from the provider - be very particular on what you want removed. AKA.. if you don't have a catering system - then be sure to remove the catering system from the scoring sheet.

 

Hope this helps!

[Wubbalubbadub]

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/400-schools-sign-up-to-take-collective-action-against-sims/

 

Thought this was interesting

[localzuk]

Our 6 school trust has made its decision to move away last week. Just got the formalities to finalise now. We've used the G Cloud process.

[gh5000]

Our 6 school trust has made its decision to move away last week. Just got the formalities to finalise now. We've used the G Cloud process.

Have you chosen what to move to?

[localzuk]

Have you chosen what to move to?

Yup. We've chosen Bromcom.

[Wubbalubbadub]

Yup. We've chosen Bromcom.

Mind if I ask why you chose Bromcom over Arbor? If you prefer to PM, then please do. :-)

[elsiegee40]

Given the lawsuits being thrown round about MIS tender processes, I think it is wise of everyone to think carefully before answering questions regarding the decision making process and reasons in a thread or by PM.

[mavhc]

Bromcom, because it has oauth

[Wubbalubbadub]

Bromcom, because it has oauth

So does Arbor..?

[Wubbalubbadub]

Given the lawsuits being thrown round about MIS tender processes, I think it is wise of everyone to think carefully before answering questions regarding the decision making process and reasons in a thread or by PM.

Good call...

[mthomas08]

Given the lawsuits being thrown round about MIS tender processes, I think it is wise of everyone to think carefully before answering questions regarding the decision making process and reasons in a thread or by PM.

 

To be honest, I'd prefer people to be open about the information.

 

I understand the fear of being sued or in trouble by certain companies but it's also important to have that additional element of 'customer relationship'. After-all, the main reason we've walked away from SIMs is their inability to be flexible to our needs and the way they've dumped this contract on us right now (Covid/Christmas and 6 weeks before our notice needs to be given). Customer satisfaction is crucial to a tender process. And if people choose company A over B - just because how a school feels regarding trust, they are well within their right.

 

I guess people just need to cover their backs and be open about such things to SLT/Governors etc.

 

We gave 3 companies a fair chance and even the option of sticking with SIMs and continue as we are but how we feel about company XYZ is an important element.

 

Like to think we have covered every angle.

[Arthur]

https://twitter.com/bringmoredata/status/1473013901172301831

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/bringmoredata/status/1473013903269543956

 

It looks good for The Key (owners of Arbor & ScholarPack) and Bromcom. The Key have 3,254 schools (2020: 2,476). Bromcom are up to 885 (2020: 640). And Bromcom's growth looks more pronounced when measured by pupil numbers (4.0% market share by # schools vs 5.8% by # pupils).

 

Of "the rest", Juniper Horizons (formerly Pupil Asset) show progress, adding 16 schools to get to 467, though there's no real sign yet of an iSAMS (now Ed:Gen) bounce yet following their acquisition by IRIS (up to 18 schools from 16 schools previously).

 

RM dipped under 2k schools for the first time since 2014, but it's not a huge drop (8.9% from 9.2%). Advanced are down to 275 - and that's before they lose their AET schools, who have announced they're moving to Arbor but not switched yet.

 

To conclude, I've always erred on the side of caution in terms of predicting changes in mkt dynamics. But with SIMS declining 5.8% in 1 year and their main strategy to staunch the flow being enforced contractual lock-ins, it's safe to say SIMS are in trouble, and they know it.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Arthur

[localzuk]

Honestly, that second tweet, about Ed:gen? There's a simple reason for that. It's vaporware. They had a single screenshot on their site when I last looked. They haven't added pricing to G Cloud for it, it's still iSAMS pricing etc...

 

Until they catch up and join the market properly, they're unlikely to see much movement for Ed:gen.