How important is it to have good equipment in the tech field...

[madmin]

...and would it affect your decision stay in your current position (if you had great equipment) or to decline an offer (if you knew they had not-so-great equipment)?

 

I'm not talking about server and network kit (though I guess that that could be a factor); I mean like the computer you log into at work and use for 8 hours every day.

 

For some context (and I'm posting anonymously if it wasn't obvious by my post count), I currently work in the private sector in London as a sysadmin and I recently interviewed at a school for a sysadmin-y role. At my current job, I have a Dell E7450 ultrabook (recentish 5th gen i5 affair) hooked up to dual Dell U2715H monitors via a docking station. This equipment is standard issue in our IT team, but even the mortals in HR, finance, sales, marketing, etc get nice laptops with thin bezel IPS monitors. It's just the way we do things, and we're not even a big company (80-100 people). The offices are large, modern and open, and I have desk space for days. Suffice to say it's a pretty nice environment to work in. At my last job (which was in a school), I worked in a dingy cupboard office no more than probably 20m², but we did at least have i7 desktops and two decent HP 22in monitors.

 

I'm so used to the bleeding edge of technology at my current place that I think I'd struggle to move elsewhere if the equipment wasn't at least 80% as good as the place I'd be leaving. Screen real estate and performance are just so important for efficiency and productivity.

 

So, guys and gals, what do you think? Is this stuff important to you? Would you change jobs regardless and try your luck at getting new equipment then? Would you just 'deal with it' if your requests to swap a single 20in monitor for two 24in was declined?

[pete]

If I have budgetary authority, it's not an issue because I can solve the problem. If I don't, then yes it would be brought up during interview if the hardware was substandard or not fit for purpose. Maybe they're not aware, maybe there's some funding coming along to change that, maybe they're tightfisted or the company is facing financial hardship - you need to know what it is before entering a contract and it's a red flag that needs some due diligence.

 

"Hey, we'll pay you $sufficient_amount for you to consider moving jobs, but you'll be using terrible equipment that hampers your ability to do the job and you can't change that", would probably cause me to decline the offer unless the work was very interesting.*

 

*"Say, working on massive telescopes or something? I'd probably bend a little on the "no terrible equipment" rule.

[googlemad]

Not too important, if I want something new I follow the procedure to bid for capital funds just like everyone else has to! At my last place I had a Core 2 Quad PC with SSD and 24" screen (gradually upgraded over the years) but can't really say I would have needed much else, half of my day was spent using Remote Desktop to servers or VMWare console anyway!

 

Couldn't care less about having a laptop as that would mean they wanted me to work from home a lot, and for a work phone we had the basic Nokia models not even with a camera!

[john]

A decent PC or Laptops is a must in IT, I cannot do without 2 screens in reality for anything serious.

 

In my current job I have a HP Desktop so its a high end i5, 16GB Ram, 128GB SSD and dual 24" super wonderful HP Z series monitors (which I love!) its now into year 3 of life so 2 to go till replacement as we get 5 years out of our kit, it is pretty much standard issue bar the 2 Z series monitors and I have a Dell Ultrabook that's an i7 with 256GB SSD and 16GB Ram as I also have to travel and work in other offices and I am expected to pickup the bits when the brown and stick hits the rotating blades shall we say in evenings and weekends (as are some of my colleagues who are also on here!).

 

I'd be lost without 2 screens for sure when building VMware systems, setting up new systems etc you can have resources on one and systems on the other etc and as we use Skype for Business I keep that squished on one screen at all times.

 

Those that have things like Dell Precision workstations, HP Z series, if they are 2nd user ICT Direct brillo but brand new for an IT Leader I do find that a bit questionable unless your video editing, coding etc daily then makes sense but if your doing what would be seen as a traditional IT Manager job not sure how justifiable they are.

[synaesthesia]

I'd always work to what was feasible. I could easily warrant an i7 with 32gb of ram and more solid state storage than I could wave a stick at, with a pair of 24" IPS panels. However, the difference in cost between that and what I have would benefit someone's education more than it would me. I currently have a 2nd or 3rd gen I5 with 16GB ram and a single 120gb SSD with a pair of cheap and cheerful 22" monitors. I don't need any more than that, and would feel particularly guilty having more. I'm a huge fan of helping to save money where possible

[Roberto]

...and would it affect your decision stay in your current position (if you had great equipment) or to decline an offer (if you knew they had not-so-great equipment)?

 

I'm not talking about server and network kit (though I guess that that could be a factor); I mean like the computer you log into at work and use for 8 hours every day.

[snip]

So, guys and gals, what do you think? Is this stuff important to you? Would you change jobs regardless and try your luck at getting new equipment then? Would you just 'deal with it' if your requests to swap a single 20in monitor for two 24in was declined?

 

I'm the infrastructure manager at my place. I have pretty much the same desktop that everyone else has in the college - an i3 with 4gb of ram. I haven't had a problem with it, though I have one of the SSDs installed that we give to power users (and have recently started rolling out by default).

 

I do have a nice 24" monitor on my desk alongside the standard 19" one, and I do have a (5 year old) Macbook pro with a core i5 processor, which has been upgraded with an SSD.

 

If I can't work with equipment that is at least similar to what the end users are working with, how am I to have any idea of what their user experience is like?

[madmin]

Some interesting and varied responses here!

 

you need to know what it is before entering a contract and it's a red flag that needs some due diligence.

Yeah. I made the mistake of not asking for a tour or what kind of equipment the IT guys are using. I'm not sure how cheeky it would be - if I were to receive an offer - to ask for a site tour out of hours. But a part of me actually doesn't want them to offer me the job anyway (even though I want to get back into edu) because I'm still perfectly happy where I am at the moment and it'll stop this weird anxiety that I'm feeling about the whole thing.

 

But I was told that staff and students are all using HP 8200/8300 and G1/G2 workstations, so maybe it's not so bad. Apparently the school has a very good budget for IT too, but I wasn't told specifics.

 

I'm the infrastructure manager at my place. I have pretty much the same desktop that everyone else has in the college - an i3 with 4gb of ram.

...If I can't work with equipment that is at least similar to what the end users are working with, how am I to have any idea of what their user experience is like?

 

I just couldn't do that lol. I have 8GB RAM, which is starting to become the norm in the mid-end and above, and I'm easily using using 6-7GB with ~20 Chrome tabs, Outlook, Word, Excel, vSphere, Jabber, Skype, TeamViewer, and other misc applications. And at my last job in the school, I frequently found myself using Handbrake to re-encode massive video files that teachers recorded to save space on the network - there's no way I could do that in even half the time with an i3 versus the i7 I had. These are things that I legitimately use on a daily basis. I also couldn't work without two reasonably sized (at least 24in) and crisp monitors. Being used to IPS connected through DisplayPort, looking at a VGA connected display makes my eyes hurt.

Edited December 15, 2016 by madmin

[mrhcarlin]

I'd say it's natural to expect a good setup. Your current place sounds super flashy and I'm actually a bit envious , but I probably have it pretty good where I am too. We have Intel NUCs (to save space) with i7s and a couple of nice IPS panels each.

 

Real sysadmins need powerful machines and the ability to multitask efficiently. I work with like four other guys and they all utilise the kit to its maximum as well, so it's not exactly unrealistic to expect an IT team to need better hardware than your average user.

Edited December 15, 2016 by mrhcarlin

[FragglePete]

You've got to do have the right tools to do the job, and here I have budgetary responsibility so will ensure my team and I have those correct tools. However, I would and never take the P*ss. It's not like I need the latest i7 device to administer a network, do documentation, answer e-mails, etc. Just something which I know it's going to do what I need well. My desktop consists of just an i3 with 3 screens (but I am looking to do a memory upgrade soon on it), and I have a Surface 3 (atom based) for mobile stuff - all of which do what I need nicely.

 

Pete

[LeMarchand]

*Looks at the nth-hand Frankensteined machines I have to use*

 

*Looks at what is considered a reason for not moving jobs*

 

*Weeps*

[gshaw]

Real sysadmins need powerful machines and the ability to multitask efficiently. I work with like four other guys and they all utilise the kit to its maximum as well, so it's not exactly unrealistic to expect an IT team to need better hardware than your average user.

 

This, I run multiple VMs for testing, shedloads of browser tabs whilst researching, email \ OneNote constantly open on second screen for documentation etc. so without the kit to do that I'd feel restricted in my job the same way any other professional would without the right-spec tools for the job.

 

Luckily we're given the freedom to pick the kit here so I use a Dell workstation as main desktop, 16GB RAM with dual screen and it gets pushed to use all of that resource. Before we upgraded a few years back my old machine was slowing me down so spec does make a difference. Also have a ThinkPad that goes with me to meetings, off-site work etc. which sees a lot of use.

[HarryMonkey]

I have an i5 with 8Gb RAM and a 128Gb SSD and a single 22" monitor. This does more or less what I want it to do. I also have a 32bit i5 laptop that I use for testing. Can't see me needing much more to be honest. Even if I'm on a VM or a remote session I can't be using more than one machine at a time.

[mikeprice]

At the moment I have an i3 with 2 monitors and an SSD

 

seems to be enough to run a couple of VMs for testing (or whatever) as well as 2 versions of Firefox with a couple of tabs open on each and teamviewer to remote PCs if necessary

 

speed doesn't seem to be an issue - unless I am using several VMs - but then it is only RAM that is a problem which is easy to upgrade

[winng]

An interesting read....

My current school has not invested in IT for years so the desktops/laptops/servers/switches, etc. all way past their potential end of life.... but still keep on going albeit with an increasing number of issues!

It has been made clear to me that there is insufficient, if any, funding available to purchase new equipment so I have to consider what we can do with what we have.

I've got a desktop (same spec as a member of staff/student) which is okay but not great however, as someone mentioned earlier, I tend to remotely connect to Hyper-V hosts and the numerous VM's to administer the network and server environment.

I'm also a big fan of Chromebooks and we have some being used by students and some staff at the moment, hoping to increase this in the future as they don't need any maintenance and support. They just work.

At the moment, I'm using a HP Chromebook myself, a larger 14" screen version, which is using an external monitor to view the rdp sessions, etc. whilst still allowing me to use my browser-based access for email, docs, etc. It seems to work fine.

My preference for any likely spending would be to focus on the core switch and a new server with storage.

[Chris_]

As long as the tech provided is good enough to do my job then I don't have a problem. We replace computers on a 5 year cycle, mine is ~4.5 years old and due up for replacement in the summer.. It's powerful enough for the work I do on a daily basis, but at the same time it's nothing fancy (2nd gen i3, 120GB SSD, dual monitors) and the same as computers that staff/students use, apart from I've got a bit more ram.

 

I came across a similar topic on Reddit a few weeks ago

I was quite surprised by the number of people that were commenting saying that they'd refuse a job if they weren't provided with brand new equipment!

[Garacesh]

When I first started here I had to Frankenstein myself a PC out of spares, but then again I was an apprentice so I didn't need powerhouse kit. Now that I'm doing significantly more I've bumped up to a proper custom-build, SSD, 2nd screen, etc. Nowhere near as powerful as my machine at home, but then again they're both built to do completely separate tasks. To be honest though I could probably still do my job on the older machine, albeit a bit slower. 2 screens is basically mandatory once RDP becomes part of your day-to-day activities, though.

[madmin]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

 

As long as the tech provided is good enough to do my job then I don't have a problem. We replace computers on a 5 year cycle, mine is ~4.5 years old and due up for replacement in the summer.. It's powerful enough for the work I do on a daily basis, but at the same time it's nothing fancy (2nd gen i3, 120GB SSD, dual monitors) and the same as computers that staff/students use, apart from I've got a bit more ram.

 

I came across a similar topic on Reddit a few weeks ago

I was quite surprised by the number of people that were commenting saying that they'd refuse a job if they weren't provided with brand new equipment!

 

I read that thread too and it's one of the reasons why I decided to ask here. /r/sysadmin almost certainly has more corporate people browsing and posting (not to mention more from overseas), so it's hard to get a true read on the state of play in education. But I think it's pretty clear that after 15 replies here the mentality in education is very different to corporate (no surprises there though).

 

I'm a massive PC enthusiast anyway, so an i3 with 4GB RAM just doesn't sound like a good time. But my work laptop isn't exactly a beast: dual core i5 (with HT), 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD. I'd say that's fine. I wouldn't want to be running too many VMs on it or do a lot of video encoding like I did with the i7 at my last job, but it's still snappy and let's me multitask efficiently.

 

 

2 screens is basically mandatory once RDP becomes part of your day-to-day activities, though.

Also this.

[Patrick]

Currently working off a core 2 duo with 4GB RAM. I visit small primaries and i use the same machines staff/students use that way I get a feel for the state of the on site equipment. Anything power hungry i farm out to one of the servers, which in small primaries can be fairly underutilized.

[ITGURU]

When I started the job 13 years ago I had an AMD Athlon with about 512mb of ram! All school computers were higher spec p4's etc.

It used to randomly freeze and crash multiple times per day.

As time went on I eventually managed to get a quad core but now i'm on the same spec as admin, i7 8gb ram, but with the benefit of an ssd. with viewing and retrieving hd CCTV also it all helps. id never expect to manage a network using lower spec pcs than what the clients are using.

[LeMarchand]

I'm a massive PC enthusiast anyway, so an i3 with 4GB RAM just doesn't sound like a good time.

 

How about an Athlon 64 X2 Dual core with 4GB RAM no SSD? Only got two (19") screens because I managed to find drivers that worked for the NVIDIA QUADRO FX 550 I scavenged from a donated machine. Admittedly I could pull the better card from my old home tower (and could probably find an SSD at home) but don't think I should have to supply my own kit.

[localzuk]

You should have the right tools to do your job.

 

I currently have a 3 year old i7 4770k, 16GB RAM, a 256GB C drive, and a 2TB SATA scratch disk, this is paired with a 27" monitor and 2x 19" square monitors.

 

The 2 square monitors are *old*. 2004 old. Still fine for what I'm using them for though - email open on one, reference material on the other. The main monitor is for my active jobs.

 

I chose such a powerful machine because I'm using it for coding, video editing, software packaging in VMs, testing VMs etc... I regularly max out its resources too, so will be looking at an upgrade next year.

 

My technician, however, doesn't do most of that, so doesn't need as powerful a machine. In most schools, he just uses whatever they have there. Here, he has my old desktop, an i7 920 with a couple of old 19" widescreen monitors. His machine doesn't hold him back from doing his job.

 

I always think of it this way - how much does a PC cost in comparison to the lost hours of productivity when a person doesn't have the equipment needed to do their job most efficiently?

[ITGURU]

You should have the right tools to do your job

I always think of it this way - how much does a PC cost in comparison to the lost hours of productivity when a person doesn't have the equipment needed to do their job most efficiently?

 

Try telling our SLT that - I've been trying to get SSDs for our 7 year old teacher PCs without success, so now when they complain it takes so long to boot up and log in to SIMS I say, speak to SLT!

[localzuk]

Try telling our SLT that - I've been trying to get SSDs for our 8 year old teacher PCs without success, so now when they complain it takes so long to boot up and log in to SIMS I say, speak to SLT!

Write it out as a cost benefit analysis.

 

Time taken to log in - 10 minutes, how many times per day, per week, per year, get an average teacher hourly salary, and multiply it out. Then show how much getting SSDs would be, as you can get 240GB SSDs for about £50 now. Link it also to T&L. Time spent logging in is time lost teaching effectively.

 

If they still say no, then they obviously don't care about efficiency or productivity.

[strawberry]

Any workplace that doesn't provide the right tools isn't going to have a good attitude to what you do. Wanting 2 screens and a decent spec pc isn't unreasonable, especially when you get excellent value out of it. In most workplaces you can get the senior folk will have their weapon of choice and use productivity as the reason in our case its not about the time it takes, its about what needs to be done.

[madmin]

but don't think I should have to supply my own kit.

 

It's interesting you say that actually because I always use my own mouse and keyboard. Heck if I'm using some skanky hand-me-down. I mean, new mice and keyboards should be compulsory for new users because they're like a tenner each max.

 

Write it out as a cost benefit analysis.

 

Time taken to log in - 10 minutes, how many times per day, per week, per year, get an average teacher hourly salary, and multiply it out. Then show how much getting SSDs would be, as you can get 240GB SSDs for about £50 now. Link it also to T&L. Time spent logging in is time lost teaching effectively.

 

If they still say no, then they obviously don't care about efficiency or productivity.

 

This is solid advice. It's one thing to go into a new job and be given bad kit, but if you truly believe that you need something better just make a case and submit it whoever has budgetary authority. If they say no and your case is sound, there's either a lack of respect somewhere or they don't care about spending money on things that can make the business (and you by virtue) more efficient/productive. I wouldn't want to work anywhere that doesn't respect me as a tech professional.