Feeling left behind generally

[Sparticate7990]

A bit of a query here as I have been feeling this way recently,

 

Namely, do you feel left behind by the changes in technology versus your current employer?

 

We are currently a server 2008R2 network, with some non critical servers running 2003R2 (I know supports ending etc) and windows 7. 3 vmware esxi hosts run 90% of our network and are maxed out, if one fails, that's it, no possibility of running on 2. The number of iPads are being expanded rapidly, our switches are in need of replacement due to age and our machines are nearing the end of warranty.

 

With many schools seeming to run server 2012R2 and windows 8 (in some cases windows 10), I just feel increasingly that things are moving forward and that the school (and myself personally) are being left behind, combined with a CC4 network, it sometimes seems hard to see the light (if that makes sense?)

 

Don't get me wrong, I like where I work and my colleagues are brilliant people, yet I feel on a professional level we are slipping rapidly away from everywhere else.

 

Does anyone here feel the same? Anyone have any ideas how we can move forward and regain some ground on as little money as possible?

[3s-gtech]

Yup. It's perfectly normal to feel that way in school IT IMO. We run majority Windows 7, we shun all cloud services, and we have some older servers and equipment. I certainly don't worry about it - I make sure that I plan, prioritise and evaluate. Planning - what needs doing first, what are the priorities. Windows 7 has years left in it, so forget that. Priorities should be your older server versions, infrastructure and maybe going vanilla. Evaluation - what doesn't meet your needs, what's failing, what would you prefer to fix first?

[RLR]

We where in a similar situation about 2 years ago. It was that bad the 2 senior IT people left and various other people came in to take over but only made things worse. Eventually we got consultants in which identified all the issues we had. They ended up being with us for a year and a half to sort everything out. Luckily being a private school a lot of money was thrown at them to fix things. We're now in a really good spot with a larger team.

[comrade]

There is nothing to stop you doing the MS exams, and setting up virtual servers at home.

 

I personally would not worry, in the end they will have to upgrade. Server 2020, then you will be a wizz.

[Sheridan]

Sometimes I feel that way, but don't forget your job is to provide systems that are fit for purpose that are cost effective. Spending a fortune on virtualising everything in your server room might feel like a great challenge, but the end users wouldn't notice a thing.

 

You might find you take a big jump in the future and miss out the current stage. We're sort of in the middle but sticking with Windows 7 for the foreseeable.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Sheridan

[Tallwood_6]

Support for server 2003r2 isn't ending its ended! That should be made a priority for replacement.

Windows 2008r2 and Windows 7 are good until 2020 so yes you might be missing out on the shinny new stuff but if there isn't a legitimate business case to move to a new OS then I wouldn't worry about it, you are in no worse a position than many business.

[speckytecky]

I felt your Thread was well worth a thanks @Sparticate7990 many of us in schools share your feelings. My 32 bit server 2008 Standard DC is now six years old - many switches, projectors and classroom computers are well past their best but it's neigh on impossible to convince of the need for funding for upgrades and replacements. Yet users continue to expect optimum service and performance. difficult nut to crack that one.

[MrKJLS]

There is nothing to stop you doing the MS exams, and setting up virtual servers at home.

 

I personally would not worry, in the end they will have to upgrade. Server 2020, then you will be a wizz.

 

Is Server 2020 any good? I didn't know they released it yet !?!

 

[Sparticate7990]

Thanks for the responses everyone, I did start studying a MCSA in server 2012, will see how I get on, @speckytecky, thanks for sharing your thoughts as well, it does seem to be that we often feel we are hitting our heads against a wall when it comes to maintaining performance and service on older hardware, our 3 hosts have 96GB of ram between them but we constantly run between 80 - 85GB in use, server restarts are all that stop the hosts from complaining too much, plus the odd server crash helps to keep us on our toes as well.

 

I just find it a struggle sometimes when iPads are everywhere, but the equipment to keep those accessing resources etc are crying for replacement! I would upgrade the server 2003 servers, but we do not have the money to do so, make do and mend is the watch word at the moment, there seems to be so much in need of replacement it's difficult to know where to start, in some ways it cant be helped due to the economic situation as a whole, but does often lead me to feel frustrated at the state of things.

[garethEds]

A bit of a query here as I have been feeling this way recently,

 

Namely, do you feel left behind by the changes in technology versus your current employer?

 

We are currently a server 2008R2 network, with some non critical servers running 2003R2 (I know supports ending etc) and windows 7. 3 vmware esxi hosts run 90% of our network and are maxed out, if one fails, that's it, no possibility of running on 2. The number of iPads are being expanded rapidly, our switches are in need of replacement due to age and our machines are nearing the end of warranty.

 

With many schools seeming to run server 2012R2 and windows 8 (in some cases windows 10), I just feel increasingly that things are moving forward and that the school (and myself personally) are being left behind, combined with a CC4 network, it sometimes seems hard to see the light (if that makes sense?)

 

Don't get me wrong, I like where I work and my colleagues are brilliant people, yet I feel on a professional level we are slipping rapidly away from everywhere else.

 

Does anyone here feel the same? Anyone have any ideas how we can move forward and regain some ground on as little money as possible?

 

Where we are (@rich_tech) I feel we will be left behind as more and more of the LEA budget is squeezed. I think - without @ictdirect we would struggle to replace our machines. Purchasing re-furbished HP desktops has helped us no end to keep our machines reasonably quick.

 

The LEA have just purchased a three year EES license - so that has freed up some funds.

 

I do wonder when we will be able to spend more. The last big purchase was three years ago - 2 x HP servers and a SAN.

 

Swansea are cutting 15% over three years. 3 x 5% - year on year. I really do not know how the powers that be can think it will not affect classes. I have classes of 28-30 with 27 pcs in my room.

 

Gareth

[timbo343]

I feel it at times but feel it more with hardware and software that is paid for and needs licensing. MS software isnt a problem as i state we NEED this along with backup software but gettibg funds for things like userlock, impero, etc that need yearly licenses buying its like going begging.

 

Hardware is a problem for us especially when we get 8k to spend on hardware. ICT direct have been a life saver along with buying SSDs giving machines about an extra 2 years life. Sometimes buying in bulk with other local schools can benefit you too. We bought some i5 zoostorms wih 8gb ram and 120gb SSDs with 5 year warranty for about £280 per machine. It was only a steal of a deal as 3 schools were buying machines. Sometimes making friends with other network managers / IT techs is a good thing but at times we keep ourselves to ourselves.

 

We could do with a few more wireless access points but at £500 per AP, we cannot afford them and then there is the licenses to buy for them. We have no mobile devices but we do invite users to use their own device, i still need to look at HAP internally for our Post16 wireless VLAN and see about personal devices printing to the MFDs. Reasons for not having mobile devices are funds and im sure if they will be tossed aside like most things we get.

 

Luckily we bought 2x new servers and a san for our HyperV project but that was the last big spend.

 

I have failing projectors to replace and it annoys me to see staff members leaving them on when not in use they are always the first to say its not their fault!!

 

Luckily we havd gone down the managed print route with papercut which is a god send after a bit of pushing and pursuading.

 

And then there is the old old game of playing catch up with software features and testing things. Sometimes when companies bring out new versions it can be time consuming to test them and think about how to implement them, this feels like you are on a treadmill.

Edited October 2, 2015 by timbo343

[garethEds]

I feel it at times but feel it more with hardware and software that is paid for and needs licensing. MS software isnt a problem as i state we NEED this along with backup software but gettibg funds for things like userlock, impero, etc that need yearly licenses buying its like going begging.

 

We've been lucky with MS software as the LEA decided that it was easier to purchase a County Wide license to ensure all schools achieve the same level of OS/Server/Office etc. I guess it's up to the schools then if they do or don't. The only license we purchase ourselves from MS is the DataCentre 2012r2 for our HyperV hosts. We've sort of pushed our 2012r2 other licenses in with the LEA :-)

 

We decided not to renew our Impero the other year. I felt they were getting a bit took greedy - they were rewarding loyal customers but still the price was climbing. We found products that did the same or similar.

 

The same with Adobe software. We were running CS3 and looked to move to CS6/CC as pupils were pushing for it. The 50% two year discount offered by the likes of Pugh was tempting but after the two years? It jumped again.

 

I'm a strong believer that large companies should be giving their software to schools for free. MS give Office 365 to pupils and staff - what a deal that is and gets the software out there. Adobe are missing a trick. Some schools can afford the monthly license and those pupils/staff might purchase it in the future.

 

Hardware is a problem for us especially when we get 8k to spend on hardware. ICT direct have been a life saver along with buying SSDs giving machines about an extra 2 years life. Sometimes buying in bulk with other local schools can benefit you too. We bought some i5 zoostorms wih 8gb ram and 120gb SSDs with 5 year warranty for about £280 per machine. It was only a steal of a deal as 3 schools were buying machines. Sometimes making friends with other network managers / IT techs is a good thing but at times we keep ourselves to ourselves.

 

I cannot commend ICT Direct enough. John and Dave are the main people we speak to and they are great. Anything we want - they accommodate. Quotes are quick and the refurbished hardware is quality - you cannot go wrong when adding the 3 year warranty. The only issue I have with ICT Direct is the slowness of sending out spare parts if something goes wrong.

 

Luckily we bought 2x new servers and a san for our HyperV project but that was the last big spend.

 

Same here. We had to fight for that but I have a good link Governor who is ICT savvy.

 

I have failing projectors to replace and it annoys me to see staff members leaving them on when not in use they are always the first to say its not their fault!!

 

Have you noticed that projectors always go boom during March? A full month before your new budget arrives and a month after your previous budget has run out. :-)

 

Luckily we havd gone down the managed print route with papercut which is a god send after a bit of pushing and pursuading.

 

Again we have been lukcy here - the LEA took over our pCounter/MFD contract. Again economies of scale came into play and we pay a ridiculously small amount per click.

 

And then there is the old old game of playing catch up with software features and testing things. Sometimes when companies bring out new versions it can be time consuming to test them and think about how to implement them, this feels like you are on a treadmill.

 

This is handy really. Since resigning from NetMan and handing the reigns over to @rich_tech I tend to spend my time in the R&D stuff. whilst Richard keeps the stuff running smoothly.

 

Gareth

[round2it]

I feel the same. Especially when i have just moved our old exchange 2003 to 2010 & feel like we have moved forward but i read on edugeek people looking at 2016 versions of stuff its kind of depressing.

 

But i have a functional system staff are happy with so thats good enough for me

[elsiegee40]

Yup. It's perfectly normal to feel that way in school IT IMO. We run majority Windows 7, we shun all cloud services, and we have some older servers and equipment. I certainly don't worry about it - I make sure that I plan, prioritise and evaluate. Planning - what needs doing first, what are the priorities. Windows 7 has years left in it, so forget that. Priorities should be your older server versions, infrastructure and maybe going vanilla. Evaluation - what doesn't meet your needs, what's failing, what would you prefer to fix first?

 

This.

 

If you want to be on the leading edge of technology then schools are not the place for you. Few have the budget to do so, even the independents.

 

In fact the same can be said in a significant number of companies I suspect... hence the number of big organisations you see that are still using XP, etc.

 

Learn and practice ... set something up at home. It will help as your school does move forward and will help as you look for your next post.

[rich_tech]

A bit of a query here as I have been feeling this way recently,

 

Namely, do you feel left behind by the changes in technology versus your current employer?

 

We are currently a server 2008R2 network, with some non critical servers running 2003R2 (I know supports ending etc) and windows 7. 3 vmware esxi hosts run 90% of our network and are maxed out, if one fails, that's it, no possibility of running on 2. The number of iPads are being expanded rapidly, our switches are in need of replacement due to age and our machines are nearing the end of warranty.

 

With many schools seeming to run server 2012R2 and windows 8 (in some cases windows 10), I just feel increasingly that things are moving forward and that the school (and myself personally) are being left behind, combined with a CC4 network, it sometimes seems hard to see the light (if that makes sense?)

 

Don't get me wrong, I like where I work and my colleagues are brilliant people, yet I feel on a professional level we are slipping rapidly away from everywhere else.

 

Does anyone here feel the same? Anyone have any ideas how we can move forward and regain some ground on as little money as possible?

 

Echoing what others have said, I think you have to spell out a lot of those issues to your management about the potential for major failures, thats a basic part of any role that we have, if there is a potentially dangerous weakness that could impact the day to day business, don't be afraid to get cases together to put to your SMT about these issues, it demonstrates that you care what you do and have the initiative to find solutions in advance of problems that are hovering around the environment.

 

It doesn't mention how you are licensed, but if you are EES covered and not perpetually licensed and within contract that should allow for upgrading of your entire estate potentially, depending on what you picked for coverage, we love the fact that we can give our staff and students the latest office products on the desktop, even allowing pupils to have it installable within the house, because of Office365 which is outstanding on Microsoft's part I think as I no longer have to show and help pupils get things like Libreoffice/OpenOffice for their computers when they don't have office removing any disadvantage for them now.

 

Hardware - ICT Direct have been excellent with their equipment and they have already had their praises sung by many members here.

 

I would also say don't be afraid to take things on yourself and train yourself where necessary, especially if its for the benefits of your school and making your life easier, I have spent lots of time as has @garethedmondson with researching, developing and investigating solutions and technologies to fit in and upgrade our systems, at the point where you first look at stuff, you will know very little about it.

 

As he mentioned our virtualisation cluster that we built was a massive upgrade at the time to our aging RM infrastructure which was predominantly 2003/2003R2 and a couple of Windows 2008R2 servers. At the start of that I knew absolutely nothing about Virtualisation, I went off and built up test environments using old PCs here with the different products available and trained myself, the same for lots of other things - Apple iPad imaging and MDM, Microsoft Imaging(MDT/WDS), WSUS, Network Inventory, Mobile Printing, VLANs, Telephone Systems and their Management, Security Camera Systems, Google Apps, Office365 to name a few other things I knew nothing about before researching and using them. I have been in this situation lots of times and I really enjoy the learning side of it with new technology myself, I like solving puzzles and working it all out.

 

I know that working in education, it can be quite limiting to professional development at times, especially given budget squeezes that we are all enduring, but I would always recommend that you make all the use of free training you can as well especially if budgets are tight, Microsoft Virtual Academy can be an excellent free training and resource guide for learning about the new technologies, as can trial editions of the server softwares if you want to quickly learn about technology on the fly.

 

I understand that it can be an issue getting time to do this stuff in the working day as well and it isn't easy when you have a lot going on for this work, but even an hour a week of your personal time can reap huge rewards in the workplace if you can spare it.

[rich_tech]

This.

 

If you want to be on the leading edge of technology then schools are not the place for you. Few have the budget to do so, even the independents.

 

In fact the same can be said in a significant number of companies I suspect... hence the number of big organisations you see that are still using XP, etc.

 

Learn and practice ... set something up at home. It will help as your school does move forward and will help as you look for your next post.

 

 

I would disagree with that personally about leading edge, if you are EES covered in a school there isn't a bar to you being at the leading edge of the technologies in terms of MS based software, your coverage there gives you access to everything at release. I think a lot more schools will also be looking to adopt cloud services in the coming years too as it saves major money on storage costs, that much is clear. Office365 can make it a no brainer there, schools can't afford to give staff or pupils 1TB of storage each, but MS can , management isn't a major issue as it can all be done through the web console the same as being on a server, Azure AD can even help make it seamless in its integration.

 

I look back at Windows 7 when we went to that from XP, It had a few minor issues for us in that there were basically a couple of packages that flat out hated Windows 7 and had to be upgraded when we evaluated it initially - Sibelius 5 which we were running back then was one that refused to work with any compatibility mode and also our SuccessMaker software had to go from 1.3 to 1.7.2 to accommodate that upgrade. The older software that refuses to die on our network - i.e. ActivStudio3 still runs, just looks awful and dated, but the staff are happy with that as long as it works for them. (Though the use of that software is a moot point with our department and others in the school as Gareth and I well know)

[Sheridan]

In some ways the teaching staff don't help. They are always being sent on courses and seminars and touted the latest gadget or toy as the new way to teach. Then they come back to work and grumble about their perfectly functioning Windows 7 pc. They forget that deploying this stuff takes a lot of money, time and testing. In some cases deployment also has a knock on effect, I.e deploying their much favoured iPads might also require a full wireless upgrade as well.

 

Plus they all have tablets at home, which makes them experts in mobile computing now and expect byod and instant on access for everything. Sometimes I think teachers should spend a week working in the real world where their complaints would be laughed off.

 

I love working in education as it does give you more flexibility for introducing new stuff, compared to when I worked in industry. But it also means you have to manage expectations with reality!

[Gibson335]

It's all about priorities. Your infrastructure and your devices need to keep pace in line because there's little point in having one that outstrips the other - and in some cases doing so can make things worse. Having EES entitles you to have the latest software, but is that a priority when it comes to the valuable resource of time? And why do it just because you're entitled to - first decide if it's necessary. If you're still winning Windows 7 then other considerations come into play, such as availability of Win7 devices (especially laptops). Eventually, of course, everything must change. Those changes should be assessed way in advance of doing them, and they should be done for the right reasons. And as has been said, managing expectations is essential. Staff don't always understand that budgets can be plundered at will if SLT decide they simply must have something shiny and new, and both you and your development plans are basically ignored. Time, money, compatibility, infrastructure, devices, software, management systems - just ensuring all of that is stable can be tough enough, and there's really little point in looking at what everyone else is doing because you could probably go to a dozen different schools and they'll be doing a dozen different things in a dozen different ways. Keeping current is crucial as far as your knowledge and understanding is concerned, but we're all pretty unique when it comes to all of those things I listed.

[Duranis]

I'm also running two 2008R2 servers (one with CC4) and Windows 7 devices. I tried running Win8 on some devices here but the staff hate it and I have had no end of issues with CC4 not working properly with it so they are all going back to Win7.

 

I'm fairly fortunate though that if I made a case for upgrading I would probably be given the funds for it. The problem is as much as I would love to switch to a vanilla 2012 server with VM's, etc I really cant justify it. What we have (although it is a massive pain in my neck) does the job fairly well as far as the end users are concerned. If I switched it all out it would likely cost between £13-20k (RM will not give us our licenses so would need to rebuy them also) and the only difference the end user would see is a slightly more responsive system. I could make the argument that it will give us more flexibility and future proofing but in reality I could run the current server with win7 clients for at least another 2-3 years.

 

In all honesty though I don't think it is that different out in the real world. No company I have ever been involved with has updated anything just because there is a newer version. Things only get updated when they are no longer able to do the job or they are that old the risk of them failing outweighs the cost of replacing them. I remember back when I was a field engineer (around the time XP was released) and one place I was sent to was still using just DOS on their PC's as the software they had (which was YEARS old) did the job they needed.

 

The only way to really get to play with new tech on a regular basis seems to be either working in a support company that is rolling it out on a regular basis or working as support for a company that is involved with a tech heavy industry that will need the latest and greatest.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Duranis
I can't English correctly.

[3s-gtech]

it would likely cost between £13-20k (RM will not give us our licenses so would need to rebuy them also)

 

Holy moley, it shouldn't cost close to that if you use EES and do the work yourself (obviously depending on how many licenses/FTE you have etc).

[googlemad]

This summer we bought desktop PCs with 16gb RAM. We can't even allocate that amount of RAM to any of our virtual servers at the moment as resources are so tight...go figure!

 

I certainly don't understand it but all the SMT want to see are shiny boxes in classrooms...even though no more than 50% are ever in use at any one time!

[Sagima]

We've been lucky that the money people believe in training us and spending on the infrastructure but getting them to spend the same on the end equipment or user training is much more difficult.

[PotNoodleTech]

Drop RM and that will instantly free up enough cash to sort out your servers and buy some new equipment. As long as you settle any existing leases then you own the equipment, and software including Microsoft licences.

[win]

Using windows 7 doesn't mean being left behind, it means you're running with the herd as most are using W7 by a big margin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

 

2008r2 is windows 7 technology so no issues there. Although in saying that, i recommend moving up to 2012r2 for your physical servers at least as hyperv is much better than in 2008r2. Otherwise nothing to worry about, i'm holding onto 7 until windows 10 is 'settled'.

[MrFrostmaul]

Same here, all clients are on Windows 7 as works perfect really as Windows 10 still has its teething problems. Have one 2012 r2 physical which is our main file server and all other servers are 2008 r2.