broadband service for school.

[ranj]

Hi we are looking at getting rid of our internet service provider which is currently provided by the local authority (birmingham grid) and want to get our own internet connection because we are unhappy with there service and over zeoulous filtering which prevents our teachers from conducting some of there lessons.

 

so I am loooking at various broadband options. business lines which can work together with our existing poor provider or even two lines, one for the pupils and one for the teaching staff.

 

This is how silly the filtering is, virgintrains.co.uk is blocked. just because it has virgin in there. The grid have told us they were cannot have the filtering as it was before. A month ago it was fine.

 

Has anyone moved away from the authority and got in there own internet. if so any problems, have there been any problems.

 

We currently pay a couple of thounsand for it at the moment. I have been looking at 2mb leased lines but they seem to be too expensive. What we need our interet for is VPN, web server and staff using the internet via separate proxy.

[_Bat_]

We used the BGfL for internet, but virgintrains.co.uk isn't blocked?

[ranj]

not now because i put it in the allowed list. so it will work for all schools. if you go to your sina admin and put a site in the allowed list it takes up to 24 hours to allow a site.

 

clearly that cant be acceptable when teaching are planning a lesson at home on there home connections only to find when they come to school. the site is blocked.

[_Bat_]

Agreed. The net would be fine if the effect of the school blocked/allowed list was instant. Instead, they insist on checking each and every entry. It gets on my nerves as well.

[tom_newton]

To be honest, that's the most common complaint I hear (length of time it takes to block/unblock) and one of the reasons we have a good number of SmoothWall users amongst schools who've broken from the local GFL.

[Grommit]

Hi we are looking at getting rid of our internet service provider which is currently provided by the local authority (birmingham grid) and want to get our own internet connection because we are unhappy with there service and over zeoulous filtering which prevents our teachers from conducting some of there lessons.

 

so I am loooking at various broadband options. business lines which can work together with our existing poor provider or even two lines, one for the pupils and one for the teaching staff.

 

This is how silly the filtering is, virgintrains.co.uk is blocked. just because it has virgin in there. The grid have told us they were cannot have the filtering as it was before. A month ago it was fine.

 

Has anyone moved away from the authority and got in there own internet. if so any problems, have there been any problems.

 

We currently pay a couple of thounsand for it at the moment. I have been looking at 2mb leased lines but they seem to be too expensive. What we need our interet for is VPN, web server and staff using the internet via separate proxy.

 

You must ask the BGFL to hand over control of the filtering to you.. this is what happens with the LGFL...

 

Its a simple web interface and you can block or unblock what ever you want

[alan-d]

Looks like we are going to be looking to move away from BGFL soon too. The faults and niggly problems are getting on everyone's nerves.

[NetworkGeezer]

You must ask the BGFL to hand over control of the filtering to you.. this is what happens with the LGFL...

 

Aren't you in Scotland? I don't know LGfL reach went that far.

 

Actually the infrastrure is built by THUS which is an offshoot of Scottish Power so who knows...

[GrumbleDook]

To be honest, that's the most common complaint I hear (length of time it takes to block/unblock) and one of the reasons we have a good number of SmoothWall users amongst schools who've broken from the local GFL.

 

Actually ... we are a smoothwall customer and we are moving to our RBC.

 

It has taken some negotiation and once it is all done (and yes ... I have been saying this for nearly a year, but we are almost there) there will be a short paper outlining the good and bad points of moving and the process.

[Technomancer]

If you are using SINA to manage URLs then you are a BGfL Plus full proxy school and you filtering is provided by Plus (ie Netmedia/My Schools Internet) and managed by YOU and NOT the BGfL. The change in filtering occurred because Netmedia upgraded their filtering from V3 to V4.1.

 

BGfL currently do not provide a delegated filtering service, though one is currently being tested. They are also working towards Becta accreditation which specifies a 4 hour turn aroung for filtering requests.

 

Filtering can be a matter of contention as it ALWAYS has to err on the side of caution, but is necessary for reasons of child protection. Moving to another provider has significant ramifications in terms of cost (Birmingham schools are currently provided with 10Meg leased lines), meeting DfES/Becta requirements for broadband and MIS services. It is a decision that cannot be undertaken lightly and must be made by the school's senior management team once they have been fully appraised of all the facts.

 

May I suggest that you, or your Head Teacher, contact the BGfL Network Services team to discuss your specific issues.

[koffers]

The best thing about the BGFL is the cost, a little over £2000 a year for a 10MB line.

 

They offer a very good VPN soultion which works nicely with RPD.

 

The filters are a little bit of a pain but it makes life easy as you don't have to worry about child protection.

[pete]

The best thing about the BGFL is the cost, a little over £2000 a year for a 10MB line.

 

Could you elaborate a bit on that please? Are you a city-based school, how many pupils and is that symmetric?

[contink]

I'm in the process of doing the same as you but for a primary school and we're going with Nildram and I'm planning on doing a lot of testing of potential content filtering packages (custom Smoothwall, School Guardian, etc..)

 

Nildrams business packages with 8mb down, 800kb+ up are a good option that I was only recently made aware of though..

[Heebeejeebee]

The best thing about the BGFL is the cost, a little over £2000 a year for a 10MB line.

 

They offer a very good VPN solution which works nicely with RPD.

 

The filters are a little bit of a pain but it makes life easy as you don't have to worry about child protection.

 

Eh?

 

The SWGfL charge us over £4500 for 8MB. We think it's a right swizz and I hope to convince our SMT to ditch them in favour of someone else - but who? (Plus the head has just decided that in the absence of a ringfenced ICTiS pot it's going to come out of my already meagre budget which is now in deficit as a result!)

 

We don't use many of the services that require us to have a SWGfL external IP Address and I believe that a lot of these will allow other providers to connect so long as they know that the IP is coming from a school.

 

I've only dabbled with Smoothwall (a couple of years back) so I'll have to look into that again. Does it do filtering now? I don't recall seeing that in the last version I played with.

 

I really would like to ditch RMs SmartCache2 box as well ‘cos it's crap. It the only piece or RM kit in our school (except for a couple of "Tesco PCs"). The only reason we keep it is because of the filtering and reporting tools.

 

Cheers

 

HBJB

[contink]

I've only dabbled with Smoothwall (a couple of years back) so I'll have to look into that again. Does it do filtering now? I don't recall seeing that in the last version I played with.

Check the community forums and particularly the "Homebrew" section.. There's an extended defence version which includes a LOT of mods including dans guardian, AD integration and a whole lot more.

 

Only thing is that it's a lot to take in and I'm facing the required learning curve at the moment. Not sure how it's going to work out tbh.

[Heebeejeebee]

Crikey, that's moved on a bit since I last looked.

 

When I've managed to finish the long list of projects that I've had lined up for me I'll have to take a closer look.

 

Cheers

 

HBJB

[Midget]

The best thing about the BGFL is the cost, a little over £2000 a year for a 10MB line.

 

We don't pay a fee for it, it comes with the SLA which costs £30/machine. Which is annoying as I cant get proper figures of how much it costs. I'm trying to get a green light on an ADSL line for the server as the filter wont allow me to run windows update via the RBC line.

[spc-rocket]

 

BGfL currently do not provide a delegated filtering service, though one is currently being tested. They are also working towards Becta accreditation which specifies a 4 hour turn aroung for filtering requests.

 

.

 

I thought the the RBC can only deliver services if they are accredited by Becta as they usually cover a lot of areas/schools.

 

Great another inconsistency with RBCs and it seems different RBCs do things differently - there doesn't seems to be one consistent process.

 

BTW, 10mb for £2000 is not bad for a leased line.

 

Ash.

[GrumbleDook]

The RBCs were all set up slightly differently ...

 

Some had to use different technology due to the locations of the end user (the schools), some had different systems for fitlering anc caching, some tool a relaxed approach and let you do as much in-house as you wanted and some took a strict line and told you that you have to do things a certain way ...

 

And then they had to hook into the NEN ...

 

Now we are left with a multitude of different MANs that essentially do what they were asked ... some have areas of excellence ... and then areas the are *very* bad ...

 

There is no way that all systems can be changed now to a single solution but the standards being pushed out (By Becta) are there to try and level the playing field slightly ...

 

£2000 is a darn good price for 10 Meg ...

 

Some RBCs are now pushing to split the costs of connection, services and content ... so that it is a lot clearer what you are paying for. For those schools with their own hosting and email there is little point in paying for it with the RBC ... but we will see how things go shortly.

 

As for accreditation ... there are strict rules on filtering ... very strict. *ALL* RBCs should have a level of accreditation already otherwise they cannot officially call themselves an RBC IIRC.

 

The other issue you may have is that although you may not want to use your RBC and you choose to go with an accredited ISP you will not be able to join the NEN at this point ... meaning you loose access to a number of things, including the JANET Vid Conf system.

[spc-rocket]

The other issue you may have is that although you may not want to use your RBC and you choose to go with an accredited ISP you will not be able to join the NEN at this point ... meaning you loose access to a number of things, including the JANET Vid Conf system.

 

We are trying to sort this out with UKERNA at the moment so essentially bypassing the RBC layer as JANET /NEN is managed by UKERNA.

 

What you have to remember is that some counties have opted not to be with any RBCs at all so they will need some sort of entry into the NEN. I can't remember where on the Becta's website i saw a list of counties that are not with an RBC.

 

Ash.

[limbo]

The BGfL is pretty cheap for a 10MB line - but what you have to remember is that you are not getting a 10MB internet connection - you are getting a 10MB connection to your local node point which is shared by many schools, libraries etc.

 

This node site is then connected to the central point where it meets up with all the other schools, libraries etc. in Birmingham with one connection point to the internet which is nowhere near big enough to guarantee every school getting 10Mb - although I am sure that the connection they do have is rearely maxed out!!

 

Do not get me wrong - it is still ample for any schools needs and very good value for money, but you cannot compare it like for like with a 10Mb broadband internet connection. There are also many other restrictions such as filtering being mandatory and the same for primary schools as it is for colleges and staff.

[SpuffMonkey]

We are trying to sort this out with UKERNA at the moment so essentially bypassing the RBC layer as JANET /NEN is managed by UKERNA.

 

What you have to remember is that some counties have opted not to be with any RBCs at all so they will need some sort of entry into the NEN. I can't remember where on the Becta's website i saw a list of counties that are not with an RBC.

 

Ash.

 

I'd be interested to hear how you get on - as we are looking to do this shortly.

[seanmh]

I believe that I am the only primary school in Torbay, Devon not on the SWGFL, this is through choice and my extensive experience of working in education, mainly in secondary in various role in educational ICT.

 

I chose to not use the SWGFL for a number of reasons and experiences that I have had using it and non-SWGFL ISPs.

 

Cost - the SWGFL is EXPENSIVE for what you get

Reliability - over the years that I used it I found it to be unreliable

Port assignment and filtering - Paper chase to get any ports open and filtering is a pain.

RM Cheesy-Mail (oh sorry....... Easy Mail) - Not good.

Virus infection - approx 4 years ago whole of SWGFL was hit by blaster.

 

I have an 8MB ADSL Business connection with Eclipse that costs £54 a month with hosting, for filering I have a RM Smart Cache II box with RM Safety-Net (which I must say I find to be very good - despite what others are saying on this forum), this also runs Espresso.

 

Downside of not using SWGFL if anyone is interested:

 

Cannot access parts of the Torbay Portal (no loss there then!)

ScoMIS cannot provide remote support.

Attix Backup problem (ScoMIS looking into as I write this).

 

Upside:

 

Total Firewall control - have been able to set up VPN, Moodle, FTP etc etc with no fuss.

Fast, reliable connection.

Decent webmail and POP3 access.

Total filtering control.

[ctbjs]

I had similar discussions with our LA not too long back and with another school that had left the RBC provision. Their reason for doing so was because of unreliability and speed of connection. This was in the days of the 2Mb connection.

 

As Limbo says the connections are routed to you via different add on connections such as libraries and other schools ( I have two other secondary schools hanging off my 10Mb connection). Personally I had issues with the 2Mb connection but since the changeover to the 10Mb I have had no real issues concerning downtime and connectivity speeds.

 

That said we are having a new school built at present under PFI and the LA have indicated that they are feeding in a 100Mb direct connection to the school (All Secondary schools in Oldham in fact) so I would imagine the connection will be somewhat enhanced by that. The idea of course in the long run is to establish a better collaborative learning setup as the VC took up huge amounts of bandwidth on a 10Mb connection and was totally unusable. Here's to blue skies!!