Wifi Advice for Parent

[speckledegg]

Hi there,

 

Just after some advice and wanted to see if any of you out there had experienced similar....

 

Basically, we have a parent who has strong views on the use of Wifi in school and is concerned for her child's health - she believes her child could be getting exposed to harmful levels of radiation from the wireless network we currently use across school and has done extensive research into the various technologies available to schools to get an idea of what we have currently implemented and what we may be implementing in the future etc.

 

She initially wanted to come into our school to take readings from the access point in her child's classroom and from other access points around the school to see what kind of radiation is/was being emitted - the device she was going to use is this: https://emf-protection.co.uk/product/trifield-tf2/?gclid=CjwKCAjw2dD7BRASEiwAWCtCb6a-nz1WGSl681ZL0rmsLU16_j5cyMZ5F_GtQp-H6W9Dfz3fGHKoLxoCvX4QAvD_BwE

 

However, after liaising between ourselves and the governors, the parent is not being allowed to come into the school to do this and we have supplied her with research to show what the average level of radiation emitted from such access points is like etc. We have also supplied evidence to support our use of Wifi in school and why it is so important (especially with COVID) - the parent thinks the Wifi is mainly there to make staffs life's easier and there is little value to the classroom. We've essentially given her the bigger picture via email contact.

 

The parent has also asked if its possible for teachers/staff to switch parts of the school wifi network off during the day - this was mainly so it could be switched off in her child's classroom. However, our access points work over POE and are generally high up on the wall, so this would be a nightmare waiting to happen! So again, we've explained why this is not a simple task and have basically enforced why its not practical.

 

Our chair of governors referred the parent to our local MP as we came to the conclusion that wireless radiation would be more widespread than just our school....however, she's not impressed with the response and has started educating parents in school about the potential radiation and its effects - her child was initially having headaches which mum thinks were related to the child being sat too close to the classroom access point. The child has since been moved away from this and the headaches have now stopped.

 

We currently have 20 Unifi AP-AC Pro's deployed across school that connect to a virtual controller set up on our Hyper-V host - all of the access points get their power/network access from POE switch's in our server room and photocopy room (depending on the side of the school they're in).

 

Has anyone else experienced similar queries from a parent and have you implemented anything in your schools to reduce exposure to potential radiation or to control when your access points are powered on/off?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as we're not too sure what else to suggest and the parent will not let this go

Edited November 6, 2020 by anselmtech

[bald_pig]

Well, for a start, the page says that the device doesn't do what she wants it to do!

 

The University of Barcelona conducted a study measuring RF exposure of 529 children ages 8 to 18 living in Europe, over a three day period. Wi-Fi signals represented only 4% of total RF exposure, with 62% originating from signals from cellular base stations, 23% from broadcast TV and radio systems, and 11% from nearby cell phones. The exposure was approximately 0.001% that of the safety limits imposed by the European Commission, which are similar to those imposed by the FCC.

Full paper is available here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301357467_Personal_Exposure_to_Radiofrequency_Electromagnetic_Fields_University_of_Barcelona_Study

 

 

TLDR; school wifi is a small percentage of a childs exposure, all of which is an infinitesimal percentage of FCC limits, which are set at a safe level.

 

Unfortunately, the parent is likely to be on a crusade and doesn't actually care about silly things like facts and science.

[FN-GM]

You could turn off the lights on the access points and hide the SSID...

 

In all seriousness it’s not going to be a situation where any compromise will be acceptable.

[Chaniel]

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. Unfortunately, the parent doing their own research is probably in line with antivaxxers doing their own research, they find something that backs up their point of view and discount anything else. The following publication is from the WHO https://www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/facts/fs304/en/

 

I would not come to any compromise, 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz wireless is not a threat and I doubt you'll be able to appease this parent.

[Reboot_IT]

Nobody is forcing the parent to send their child to the specific school. The parent should find an alternative school stuck in the 1980s!

[RobD]

As per the paper above, WiFi is non ionising radiation

 

More risk from the sun.

[mavhc]

Time to join to with the science department to run some experiments, here's the wifi box, you can see the light that says it's on, now we'll turn it off and let's see if it affects you at all. On. Off. On. Off. Oh wait, that's not the wifi box, that's just a box with a light on.

 

Today we have learned psychology!

 

Or ask for a donation to install an ethernet cable under the floor to every desk.

 

You can script some switches to turn on/off PoE, energy saving at night/weekends etc.

[Jawloms]

Weird how only her child was getting the headaches.

[chazzy2501]

Speaking rationally to an irrational person is going to be a waste of time.

[dhicks]

We currently have 20 Unifi AP-AC Pro's deployed across school that connect to a virtual controller set up on our Hyper-V host - all of the access points get their power/network access from POE switch's in our server room and photocopy room (depending on the side of the school they're in).

 

Can you switch PoE on/off on a particular switch port? You could have a periodic task set up to turn the power on/off to a particular port at given times, or set up a on/off button on a web page. I think Ubiquiti's PoE-capable switches have this capability (not sure if it's scriptable, though), so you could put a small (£150) switch in to power the classroom access point.

 

I've always wanted to try painting a classroom's walls in "magnetic" whiteboard paint, basically paint with iron filings in. My guess is that that would cut down on the external radiation making it in to a classroom - you could do a before-and-after measurement to see what percentage it cuts out. This would (possibly) stop interference on the limited channels available to WiFi signals, meaning that if you did have an access point inside the classroom it should use less power / give a better signal. Plus you can stick magnets straight to the wall, which is great fun, and if you get a dry-wipe surface all round the classroom you can draw on with marker pens!

[Jamman960]

I've not experienced this but some people claim to be more sensitive to RF than others, I'd suggest she get her child checked by an expert to prove they do/don't respond in a normal way to such small amounts of radiation, if she can provide a doctors note you'll make additional accomodations etc

 

Did they have issues in previous years when I assume the child was in a different classroom?

 

If her child's headache's have stopped then isn't the problem solved on your end? she might be able to push a school into considering this but her child is going to have far more trouble elsewhere in their lives if they really are affected by RF

[GizmoIT]

Foil hats work quite well..

[Roberto]

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as we're not too sure what else to suggest and the parent will not let this go

 

This stuff was thoroughly debunked years ago. She's a wingnut. My advice would be to stop engaging with wingnuts.

[Rob_D]

Could the child be issued something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07FYC725N/

[DGardiner]

Could the child be issued something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07FYC725N/

this looks more suitable

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ZoneYan-Aluminum-Waterproof-Insulation-Conditioning/dp/B08GK3G2B6/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=tin+foil+hat&qid=1604668982&sr=8-2

[Achandler]

Honestly, as everyone else has said, just ignore her. She can home educate her child if she is that concerned or she can get an expert (probably from the US) to confirm her child has this condition, and what needs to be done to accommodate them. She can then lobby her local MP to get additional funding for the school to enact these measures, it won't happen.

 

There's plenty of research which debunks her "theory" and "concerns", she won't believe any of it. Some people simply won't, you will just have to ignore her politely.

 

The parent probably has a mobile phone, WiFi at home etc.

[Sonic007]

Tell her the access points are off and see if the headaches improve. Then once she tells you all is fine, tell her they were never off in the first place.

 

 

Im guessing she probably has a mobile phone? Will she be turning that off too?

[pete]

OK, getting flashbacks to 2007.

 

We've also had this from a few parents.

 

Our general position is:

 

Schoolname has yet to see evidence linking use of Wireless networks to ill health. What Schoolname has found is that Wireless networks provide opportunities to use ICT in ways (and areas) where it would otherwise be absent. Schoolname considers student safety as our most important responsibility and will review our position should a credible, repeatable peer-reviewed study indicate a causal link between WiFi use and health problems.

 

Not to mention the whole "Schoolname would struggle to justify spending thousands running copper ethernet to the auditors without any evidence it was necessary to do so".

 

Previous discussions: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/wireless-networks/93616-parent-concerns-about-wifi-safety.html

 

Long discussion about the 2007 Panorama debacle: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/wireless-networks/8528-panorama-s-wireless-schools-program-8-30-tonight.html

[dcwhitworth]

If she's 'educating' other parents in the school then I'd suggest the school needs to head it off at the pass by sending a letter out to parents. Beyond that I wouldn't engage with them. Also worth pointing out the Nocebo effect which isn't very well known but is the opposite of the placebo effect which explains a lot of the symptoms such 'sufferers' have.

[paulkerton]

Unfortunately, you may find cranks like this. I'm sure you'll get someone upset that you use globes in Geography lessons before too long.

There is no evidence that wifi causes issues like this, and I would certainly ask her to provide medically certified proof that this is the cause.

 

She won't get it. Cause it doesn't exist. We've had wifi available publicly since around 2002. 18 years and there is absolutely no evidence that there is any medical harm.

If she has a mobile phone, a microwave, a cordless telephone in her home, all of these produce similar radiation in similar frequency ranges.

 

She is always free to withdraw her child and try to find a school that doesn't have a wireless network. Not sure there are many Amish schools in the UK however.

Edited November 6, 2020 by paulkerton

[mavhc]

Just put the Wifi APs in the dropped ceiling so you can't see them. Then explain that the laptops have been altered to work by unicorn magic instead.

 

Bonus points for editing the OS language and icon files so unicorn magic appears when you click the unicorn icon

[bwestlake]

Does the child have their own mobile phone.... if they do ask the parent why if they're so worried about wifi etc?

[MatthewL]

Has said Parent been around all the local neighbours too and got them to turn their WiFi off, and the cordless phones, WiFi in the supermarket, shops, McDonalds.

[mikeprice]

My sympathies

 

dealing with self educated nutjobs is difficult

 

just to add a story (yes - again!!)

saw a similar problem from an IT tech a while ago

 

kid was OK but parent was 'very sensitive' to wifi and the fact that the school had wifi was discriminating against said parent due to her disability because she was not able to go to the Christmas Play to view darling child due to the discriminatory actions of the school in having wifi

 

lawyers were threatened - if no action was taken

 

Head was trying to be helpful - IT Tech was brought into the 'meeting'

 

IT Tech agreed to allow the parent come to the school - approaching slowly across the quad while the IT tech showed her the signal as they approached

as the SSID became visible on the IT Techs phone - amazingly the parent could also feel it 'naturally'

 

so she retreated while the IT Tech went inside and unplugged the access point

 

the parent the approached again with the IT tech showing the same app - and, of course, the SSID did not appear

parent - amazingly - was fine

 

 

so -all sorted - for the play the parent would arrive early , IT Tech would switch off the access point and show her it was clear as she approached

all was well

 

parent was happily seated and everyone else filed in and took their seats

 

IT Tech happily hung around nearby and monitored the hall as dozens of signals appeared from a variety of parents phones

 

 

parent was very grateful to the very helpful IT Tech and Head as she had had no problems

 

I MAY have added to the story a bit

 

but the basis was what I read

which may or may not have been true

but who cares

[Wubbalubbadub]

What the actual....

 

This is actually crazy!