Future of transport

[JordanT91]

Yes Pacers are indeed awful. Okay for very short journeys on rural branch lines but the problem is they end up making it on to busy commuter services.

 

They are not okay for anything, even very short journeys on rural branch lines. They do not comply with the Disability Discrimination Act.

[Dos_Box]

Apologies if this link had been posted earlier as I couldn't see it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51272817

There are a fair few neigh-sayers out there talking about this, but I can see his point.

Many Beeching cuts were very small indeed. For example you can't get directly from Preston to Southport without going via Wigan and changing stations! You used to be able to, but due to Beeching they tore up the 300 meters-ish of track on a junction that linked the two lines as you can see on the picture below (the curve).

 

 

Just as the Fleetwood line mentioned in the Beeb article does not need much work to get it up and running again as the line still runs very close to the town. And Fleetwood really does need a railway line.

The article mentions that it already has the tram link to Blackpool, but the opportunities for those who want to work anywhere but Fleetwood (but still live there because houses are very cheap) and Blackpool are slim unless you have a car.

I do think this is a step in the right direction, but the amount currently allocated is not really enough do do much beyond minor line ressurections. I wouldn't be surprised if this is more of a trial to see how easy it is to do, and the impact it has on towns suddenly give a link once more to the outside world.

[Andrew_C]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is more of a

n attempt to look like they are doing something, in a week that Northern are about to loose their franchise.

[houlta]

n attempt to look like they are doing something, in a week that Northern are about to loose their franchise.

 

I've noticed northern were advertising for new drivers in the past couple of weeks too, even going to the extent of getting it noticed in a lot of local rags.

I couldn't see the sense in it though...who in their right mind would apply for a job with a company about to lose their contract!?

[Andrew_C]

who in their right mind would apply for a job with a company about to lose their contract!?

The drivers would most likely be taken on by whoever is running it in future. You can't recruit a few hundred train drivers out of nowhere.

 

The railways will also have to stop doing this:-

 

Local main line all bgred up due to derailment.

[houlta]

Possibly the nationalised business would take them on but I'd imagine no guarantees there, question is why northern would bother at this point.

[LeMarchand]

Had a reminder of why trains may not be the ideal solution last night/this morning when a derailment meant that Mme LeMarchand was 2+ hours late home (and that only because Mlle LeMarchand drove to pick her up). This morning the two of them planned ahead and checked train delays and I got them to the station early to match the revised timetable. An hour later Mlle is still at the station and Mme is actually quite close to where I have been for 3/4s of an hour - nowhere near her work.

[mavhc]

Need more train usage, then it's easy to justify extra track, it's like when you step up from 1 to 3 servers in a cluster, and 1 can now fail

[LTurner3692]

Need more train usage, then it's easy to justify extra track, it's like when you step up from 1 to 3 servers in a cluster, and 1 can now fail

 

Make them reliable enough now and people might actually use them more.

[superatticman]

Make them reliable enough now and people might actually use them more.

 

To be fair people do use the trains. Passenger numbers have grown massively. I always thought it was a bit ironic when some would say things to the tone of "I had to stand for two hours on a railway that no one wants to use!"

[mikeprice]

that is part of the problem though

 

a lot of people use the trains to commute because they effectively HAVE to

 

what is required is a level of improvement that makes it so that people actually like using the train

 

which means that things have to run on time and be generally reliable

and pleasant inside

 

When I started work (and yes trains HAD been invented by then - before $usualsuspect chips in) commuting by train was the easier and most convenient way to get to work - and the most reliable

and that was at a time when the local line was called MiseryRail - never really saw their point as my train always arrived within a few minutes of its due time

I guess people always want to moan

[Davit2005]

that is part of the problem though

 

a lot of people use the trains to commute because they effectively HAVE to

 

what is required is a level of improvement that makes it so that people actually like using the train

 

which means that things have to run on time and be generally reliable

and pleasant inside

 

When I started work (and yes trains HAD been invented by then - before $usualsuspect chips in) commuting by train was the easier and most convenient way to get to work - and the most reliable

and that was at a time when the local line was called MiseryRail - never really saw their point as my train always arrived within a few minutes of its due time

I guess people always want to moan

 

I've actually been on the phone to Southern Rail telling them that there train had not ran, guess what, they did not believe me. My only option if that train did not run was either a double time journey or a double cost journey.

 

Look at the fiasco caused by the timetable changes, there need to seriously ask questions and fine companies for that sort of thing as well as compensate all the users whether they had season tickets or not.

[superatticman]

that is part of the problem though

 

a lot of people use the trains to commute because they effectively HAVE to

 

what is required is a level of improvement that makes it so that people actually like using the train

 

 

Operators effectively have a monopoly on most routes too. You really only have one choice of operator to go from London to Glasgow or London to Plymouth. This means they can turn out whatever cheap, tacky ironing board seated rubbish they want. I'd happily suggest if a competitor to LNER provided a refurbished, slightly slower but more comfy mk4 /125 consist then they would hoover up the market. Little point in arriving at Edinburgh 10 minutes quicker if you can't feel your @rs3 anymore......

 

London to Birmingham is an interesting one as there are three major operators that serve it. Chiltern, Avanti (ex Virgin) and London and North Western. You actually have a choice as to fast, expensive but claustrophobic. Slightly slower, cheaper but comfy. Or slower than that, cheaper and fairly comfy. No surprise the middle option has taken a fair share of the market.

[mikeprice]

but most people have to shoose a specific train because it runs at the right time

 

so if you can choose

A that gets your there all nice and comfy - but 1 hour earlier than you want

B that gets you there nice and comfy and cheap - but gets you there 30 minutes late

C that is not so comfy, a bit more expensive but gets you there 10 minutes early

 

Then most people will have to choose C - even though A and B are nicer

 

Of course - if this is at a time when most people are just going shopping in town - thne potentially people could reschedule and get the better trains - but most journeys are time sensitive and so comfort is not the main issue

[stevejp]

 

When I started work (and yes trains HAD been invented by then - before $usualsuspect chips in)

 

Who on earth is he referring to?

 

[LincolnE]

The biggest problem with any form of public transport, in my own opinion, is the harassment and intimidation I get whilst travelling on buses, trains or the like at times.

 

I'm an openly trans person, honestly the threats and abuse I get on a train at, lets say 10-11pm on the tube network returning from a social event/work is actually horrendous at times, I know the same is true for many other LGBT+, people of colour or other generally discriminated against groups... hell just being a women has it's risks and as such you're excluding around half the population. Until we get these issues sorted, I don't think there's any real chance of adoption of different forms of public transport, shared cars or the like.

[mavhc]

That's horrible.

 

Wonder if it would change if every person travelling was known, and everything was recorded, and people who abuse others were arrested/fined/banned.

 

Also probably need to ban them from consuming drugs

[smurfomatic]

Not pleasant for train staff either...abused for waking someone up who had missed their stop, amongst other things. BBC - 'My three weeks of hell working on the railway'

[Ditto]

One point missed in this thread is that whilst running costs (not initial costs) are low, when we reach the point where EV matches current ICE, the saving is unlikely to be there. Massive tax revenues generated via ICE, with very large amounts coming via petrol/diesel, will need to be found elsewhere and you can guess what will be targeted. Now is probably a sweet point cost wise, so if you can afford the initial outlay, go for it. And for anyone thinking they run off solar power on the cheap, remember window tax and room tax, solar panel tax wouldn't be far away!

[Ditto]

Maybe this needs to split off to a separate thread, but I'm hearing little if any conversation on bio-fuels - is that a lame duck?

[localzuk]

One point missed in this thread is that whilst running costs (not initial costs) are low, when we reach the point where EV matches current ICE, the saving is unlikely to be there. Massive tax revenues generated via ICE, with very large amounts coming via petrol/diesel, will need to be found elsewhere and you can guess what will be targeted. Now is probably a sweet point cost wise, so if you can afford the initial outlay, go for it. And for anyone thinking they run off solar power on the cheap, remember window tax and room tax, solar panel tax wouldn't be far away!

I suspect we'll see the introduction of "mileage tax" in the next 20 years to be honest. Along with mandatory black boxes/gps tracking.

[mavhc]

mileage * (mass of vehicle / number of axles )^4 should accurately cover the cost of repairing roads

[mikeprice]

I notice that the government have move the banning of petrol and diesel vehicles forward

 

and have included plug in hybrids in the ban

 

which is all good as long as they put some effort in themselves and don't just assume that industry and market forces will sort it and they can just tax people who don't comply

[mavhc]

You tax people who don't comply and use the tax money to encourage people to comply, that's what government mostly does. Helpful if they also reduce things that make doing the things they want people to do takes too much time/money too

[mikeprice]

You tax people who don't comply and use the tax money to encourage people to comply, that's what government mostly does. Helpful if they also reduce things that make doing the things they want people to do takes too much time/money too

 

Which is fine as long as you don;t end up taxing the less well off because they don;t have enough money to upgrade in order to comply while the better off can just throw money at the problem and end up better off

 

 

see Sam Vimes and his views on boots for further explanation

 

 

in this country the concept is supposed to be that we only 'punish tax' people who don;t comply by choice

so if you have a big car with a throaty 7 litre V8 then you should get taxed for the privilege - but if you are struggling to get by cleaning people's windows in your 15 year old diesel transit then you should have help to upgrade

 

sorry to go all Corbyn - but that is how I see the country

 

 

 

 

 

 

and for the pedants - yes - I know you would have to get OUT of the transit to clean people's windows