Update our virtualisation hardware stack, but to what?

[PotNoodleTech]

I recently updated our server infrastructure to a visualized environment. We went down the route of 2 hosts with local storage and hyper v replication between them. Each server runs half of our vms and each half is replicated to the other host. We then have a backup server running Veeam. All the backups are copied to a NAS in another building and a copy taken off site.

 

Servers were HP DL380gen9, we also have capacity to add storage and ram if needed in the future.

 

Fairly cheap, very simple and so far effective

 

This is what I have done as muy budget is consistently tight. This is probably the best value way you can do it. Two high spec hosts with filled with solid state drives and 5 year warranty replicated to each other and a solid backup system using a separate server using Veeam replicated to a NAS ina different building and preferably either tapes/secondary nas on separate site/cloud is all most schools need. The only issue for the OP is that he is currently VMware and would need to move to hyperv which will complicated things compared to staying with VMware.

 

OP - VMware do an outstanding bit of software called VSAN - you use 3 physical hosts each filled with disks and VMWARE shares out all disks on all hosts as one big fault tolerant pool, you can lose a disk, you can lose a server, the more disks and servers you add the faster and more resilient your pool. Licencing is expensive however it is orders of magnitude better than a SAN.

[gshaw]

Is that with native Windows / Hyper-V options or some third party integration?

If I remember rightly Server 2016 has Storage Spaces Direct which does this:

 

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server-docs/storage/storage-spaces/hyper-converged-solution-using-storage-spaces-direct

 

Stone were doing some interesting work with this using their Integrum servers, worth having a look via a demo.

 

The Azure side is called Site Recovery:

 

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/services/site-recovery/

 

From what I remember you pay a fairly minimal fee to replicate the VMs up there in a powered-off state and changes are replicated. If disaster strikes and you lose all your hosts you spool up in the cloud but obviously cost attached. However if you offset that against the cost of more hardware, separate server rooms etc. and chances of the worst happening it may well work out more cost-effective.

[gshaw]

Is that with native Windows / Hyper-V options or some third party integration?

If I remember rightly Server 2016 has Storage Spaces Direct which does this:

 

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server-docs/storage/storage-spaces/hyper-converged-solution-using-storage-spaces-direct

 

Stone were doing some interesting work with this using their Integrum servers, worth having a look via a demo.

 

The Azure side is called Site Recovery:

 

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/services/site-recovery/

 

From what I remember you pay a fairly minimal fee to replicate the VMs up there in a powered-off state and changes are replicated. If disaster strikes and you lose all your hosts you spool up in the cloud but obviously cost attached. However if you offset that against the cost of more hardware, separate server rooms etc. and chances of the worst happening it may well work out more cost-effective.

[Oaktech]

I've done this recently... I've got a pair of Millgate supplied Lenovo 3650 6 core xeon/64gb servers and a lenovo s2200 san with hp aruba 2530 switches with the 10gb modules plugged into them. It's been up for 12 months now except for 1 planned outage to update the backplane firmware in the san. I'm more than happy with it and the whole project with 20tb of 10k sas storage was about 16k. I looked at the vrtx and also the fujitsu hyperconverged san-in-a-box but this system was the most scalable as I am almost certainly going to end up adding our partner school to our setup in the next 12 months.

[Oaktech]

I've done this recently... I've got a pair of Millgate supplied Lenovo 3650 6 core xeon/64gb servers and a lenovo s2200 san with hp aruba 2530 switches with the 10gb modules plugged into them. It's been up for 12 months now except for 1 planned outage to update the backplane firmware in the san. I'm more than happy with it and the whole project with 20tb of 10k sas storage was about 16k. I looked at the vrtx and also the fujitsu hyperconverged san-in-a-box but this system was the most scalable as I am almost certainly going to end up adding our partner school to our setup in the next 12 months.

[mukz]

We have gone down the route as follows:

 

2 x Dell PowerEdge servers as hosts

2 x QNAP NAS's for storage - all SSD storage

 

The plan will be to have half our VMs on each host, with one of the QNAP NAS's as the primary storage for the node, then Veeam replication between the 2.

 

Its the most cost effective solution we could come up with without needing 2 clusters of Hyper-V Nodes.

 

Have you had a look at storage spaces for the NAS's? Just asking as your setup is same as ours except ours are Netgear NAS's which we will be replaced with the QNAP + SSD variant like yours.

[mukz]

We have gone down the route as follows:

 

2 x Dell PowerEdge servers as hosts

2 x QNAP NAS's for storage - all SSD storage

 

The plan will be to have half our VMs on each host, with one of the QNAP NAS's as the primary storage for the node, then Veeam replication between the 2.

 

Its the most cost effective solution we could come up with without needing 2 clusters of Hyper-V Nodes.

 

Have you had a look at storage spaces for the NAS's? Just asking as your setup is same as ours except ours are Netgear NAS's which we will be replaced with the QNAP + SSD variant like yours.

[localzuk]

Have you had a look at storage spaces for the NAS's? Just asking as your setup is same as ours except ours are Netgear NAS's which we will be replaced with the QNAP + SSD variant like yours.

Not sure how Storage Spaces would help anything to be honest. It'd just be adding another layer on top.

[localzuk]

Have you had a look at storage spaces for the NAS's? Just asking as your setup is same as ours except ours are Netgear NAS's which we will be replaced with the QNAP + SSD variant like yours.

Not sure how Storage Spaces would help anything to be honest. It'd just be adding another layer on top.

[mukz]

Not sure how Storage Spaces would help anything to be honest. It'd just be adding another layer on top.

 

We don't have veeam doing the replication, too much data. So wanted to take advantage of storage spaces to be able to keep the current nas's for file storage which is not always accessed and then use the SSD storage for server access all from a single virtual drive so to speak.

 

Will give it a try - like to be a hero and test stuff out even if it has no benefit

[mukz]

Not sure how Storage Spaces would help anything to be honest. It'd just be adding another layer on top.

 

We don't have veeam doing the replication, too much data. So wanted to take advantage of storage spaces to be able to keep the current nas's for file storage which is not always accessed and then use the SSD storage for server access all from a single virtual drive so to speak.

 

Will give it a try - like to be a hero and test stuff out even if it has no benefit

[localzuk]

We don't have veeam doing the replication, too much data. So wanted to take advantage of storage spaces to be able to keep the current nas's for file storage which is not always accessed and then use the SSD storage for server access all from a single virtual drive so to speak.

Will give it a try - like to be a hero and test stuff out even if it has no benefit

Veeam replication only replicates changes, so the data amount is minimal really.

[Stone_Charli]

Hi there,

 

Thanks for the mention @gshaw !

 

Just for reference, here's a couple case studies for customers where we're using an Integrum.

 

https://www.stonegroup.co.uk/customer-stories/luton-sixth-form-college/

 

https://www.stonegroup.co.uk/customer-stories/whitcliffe-mount-school/

 

We also launched a new version of the Integrum at this year's BETT, which you can read more about here: https://www.stonegroup.co.uk/stone-launches-next-generation-stone-integrum/

 

If you would like any more information, please don't hesitate to drop me a PM!

 

Thanks,

 

Charli

 

 

Edit: added a word

[mukz]

Veeam replication only replicates changes, so the data amount is minimal really.

 

Thanks mate, will review my plan again.

[lmgtfy]

@limawhiskey we are in the same position now as you were back in March. Have you decided what solution you are going for yet or made any further advances in the project?

[DSapseid]

I'd also consider backup to cloud (e.g. Redstor), assuming we could demonstrate that costs over time are roughly comparable to buying all the new hardware.

 

 

I would recommend Redstor 100%. I justified the cost the SLT here that the cost per year was only a bit more than the annual cost of BackupExec & new tapes, plus had the added bonus of off site storage.

 

This ultimately was the best thing i have ever put in place here see http://www.edugeek.net/forums/general-chat/173744-someone-fancied-brand-new-network-fire-west-sussex-school.html for when my school burnt down 14 months after i put this in.

 

It was so simple to install as well, think i had all 6 servers done inside 20mins on the first day i had it.

[nicholab]

Have you considered lenovo and datacore hyperconverged?

[TechieWils]

From personal experience at my old place I had a couple of Stone Integrums in a converged Hyper-V solution and I loved them. Best purchase I made there and compared to a similar Dell VRTX solution it beat the price hands down.

[nicholab]

I think that some like vrtx and integrums are more relevant as we move to cloud services. Well they where in the ms document on the subject.

[jslate1980]

From personal experience at my old place I had a couple of Stone Integrums in a converged Hyper-V solution and I loved them. Best purchase I made there and compared to a similar Dell VRTX solution it beat the price hands down.

 

How big was your place to have a couple of stone integrums?

[lmgtfy]

The Stone Integrums look nice on paper but my main concerns are around the large 7200RPM HDD drives that are built into most Stone Integrums and if they are as large as 8TB how many can fail as well as the rebuild times on such as big drive. Can anyone help put my mind at rest with this?

[Stone_Charli]

@lmgtfy - I've just run your query past our technician, his response:

 

They can take up to 2 drive failures, the rebuild times are normally a few hours but it is highly dependent on load/amount of data.

 

We use Mirror layouts, which you can read more about here: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh831739(v=ws.11).aspx