2015 Election

[Andrew_C]

And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next...

[Arreks]

And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next...

 

Now that's a song I haven't listened to in a while, it definitely seems appropriate.

[tmcd35]

And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next...

 

And if I can't shoot foxes then you can't shoot Tories...

[sted]

And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next...

 

but when 60% odd of people diddnt vote for the lot who are in power what actually can you do the system is working as its designed to do keep the status quo and not allow on the whole any big changes. The whole system is flawed but its never going to be radically changed because its in the interest of those in charge to keep it that way and short of actual civil war/rebellion i dont see how it could be changed

[Andrew_C]

And if I can't shoot foxes then you can't shoot Tories...

There's nothing to stop me shooting foxes. I can't hunt them with dogs, so it follows that...

[TechMonkey]

but when 60% odd of people diddnt vote for the lot who are in power what actually can you do the system is working as its designed to do keep the status quo and not allow on the whole any big changes. The whole system is flawed but its never going to be radically changed because its in the interest of those in charge to keep it that way and short of actual civil war/rebellion I don't see how it could be changed

 

Well we had the chance (AV vote) but too many people decided it wasn't the change they wanted so voted against it. Surprise, surprise the politicians now say the public was given the chance to an alternative to FPTP and they didn't want it. Often it is those that are now crying that anything would be better than FPTP.

 

Also with the claim that something is dodgy with the election because there isn't a vocal majority supporting the Tories, well would you with the vitriol turned against anyone even giving a positive comment towards them let alone openly support them. Terms of scum and worse. I even saw a sign from a shop keeper that anyone admitting to being a Tory support would have a 10% tory tax added to their bill as they wouldn't mind as they were obviously rich and elitist. Sometimes I think the Liberals and Labour supports are even less inclusive politically then they claim the Tories are. It has just turned into a knee jerk response, Tories bad lets protest and scream. I was embarrassed as a union person at the last election that within days of the Coalition coming in the Unions were ramping up the scare stories and publically getting on a war footing.

[localzuk]

I don't disagree with you. I voted Green! I'm all about the left wing! But I'm feeling a little bit ashamed of how nasty people are getting.

 

I always thought the left-wing was more on the side of freedom and choice than the right. If the people have freely chosen, so be it. We need to convince them to come back to us, not berate them for deserting us.

 

I think this is a common misconception - left and right do not mean libertarian and authoritarian - they are an entirely different axes to look at. You can have a left wing authoritarian or a right wing authoritarian party. Indeed, most of our political parties are right wing authoritarian. Greens are more left wing libertarian.

[localzuk]

Well we had the chance (AV vote) but too many people decided it wasn't the change they wanted so voted against it. Surprise, surprise the politicians now say the public was given the chance to an alternative to FPTP and they didn't want it. Often it is those that are now crying that anything would be better than FPTP.

 

AV was a terrible option. The idea that people should have voted for it if they wanted PR is flawed - the government would have changed us to that system, and then that would've been that for the next several decades. As it stands, the idea that not voting to move to AV means we want FPTP is just not true.

[tmcd35]

There's nothing to stop me shooting foxes. I can't hunt them with dogs, so it follows that...

 

I'll take that as a win and shoot me some tories then

[zag]

Its the same old story...

 

Tories get in and the extreme left wing spend 5 years talking about poverty and striking.

 

If you actually look at Cameron's record he's been an incredibly center ground politician.

 

Needless to say the left wingers will be talking about people dieing on the streets from malnutrition and food banks whatever he does...

[tmcd35]

AV was a terrible option.

 

Personally I disagree. Implemented correctly, equal constituency sizes, I think AV provides the best compromise between PR and Constituency Representation. At least you can say for a set number of people this is the candidate that more than half agree would be the best to represent them even they're not your first choice.

 

Other PR schemes break the constituency link and I'm not sold on that being a good idea.

[sonofsanta]

I think this is a common misconception - left and right do not mean libertarian and authoritarian - they are an entirely different axes to look at. You can have a left wing authoritarian or a right wing authoritarian party. Indeed, most of our political parties are right wing authoritarian. Greens are more left wing libertarian.

 

This is why I suspect I'm more Lib Dem than I am Labour; practically, though, I can't see LD being in power any time soon (or ever), so should I side with Labour? My views on public sector match up with theirs (I very much liked the NHS part of their 2015 manifesto) but my views on civil liberties are much more LD.

 

Of course, they'll all be different in five years time; if Chuka Umunna gets the leadership nod, Labour will be back to centrist Blairism, and Tim Farron would take the LibDems in a much different direction than Clegg... so not exactly a rush to decide. And, of course, my views will have evolved in the meantime.

[tmcd35]

Needless to say the left wingers will be talking about people dieing on the streets from malnutrition and food banks whatever he does...

 

I can only assume you do not know anyone affected by some of their policies. All I can say is you and your family are fortunate and I wish you all the best. I do, unfortunately, have various family members who are being hit in different ways and it really isn't a pretty sight. Financially I'm doing well under the last government and will probably continue to do well under this government. Looking across my family I certainly don't feel "we are all in this together".

[sonofsanta]

Other PR schemes break the constituency link and I'm not sold on that being a good idea.

 

Given that my local MP has just been parachuted in from Lancashire, having lived in London and Gloucestershire, I'm not convinced there is a link between the local area and the MP anymore. I expect her to be a junior minister next time out and from then on she'll be a London MP, safe with her Lincolnshire seat.

 

Career politics, and the rise of the political class, has already destroyed the local link. We may as well have PR.

[sparkeh]

Needless to say the left wingers will be talking about people dieing on the streets from malnutrition and food banks whatever he does...

No I think left wingers will look at the facts and react accordingly. Shocking stats on child poverty, the numbers of people using food banks, vulnerable people committing suicide due to policies such as the bedroom tax.

 

Of course right wingers will turn their heads and ignore these issues, probably pointing to a painfully slow economic recovery won on the back of discredited austerity measures that disadvantage the poor and vulnerable.

 

I doubt I'll get a response from a right winger that actually address the awful realities of today's society

[sted]

Given that my local MP has just been parachuted in from Lancashire, having lived in London and Gloucestershire, I'm not convinced there is a link between the local area and the MP anymore. I expect her to be a junior minister next time out and from then on she'll be a London MP, safe with her Lincolnshire seat.

 

Career politics, and the rise of the political class, has already destroyed the local link. We may as well have PR.

 

that being the case maybe we need to split parliment up vote for a party to deal with national/international issues and have more local parliaments like Wales Scotland where you vote for a person who cant be affiliated with a national party so at county level say you have a group of people who just do stuff that affects say Yorkshire (or even west Yorkshire) all national government has to do with it is funds allocation

[zag]

This is just a small example of what left wingers are capable of thinking.

 

http://media.ampp3d.co.uk/u/2014/04/mirror_front_page_food_banks-385x494.jpg

 

This is despite a £26,000 benefit cap in the last parliament.

[LeMarchand]

This is just a small example of what left wingers are capable of thinking.

 

http://media.ampp3d.co.uk/u/2014/04/mirror_front_page_food_banks-385x494.jpg

 

This is despite a £26,000 benefit cap in the last parliament.

 

Are you saying it's a lie and that those parcels weren't handed out?

 

I'll admit that there's probably some hyperbole and that the figure may be over a year, but I can quite believe it.

[tmcd35]

This is despite a £26,000 benefit cap in the last parliament.

 

Strange choice of words given the story. (which is typical tabloid sensationalism given the stock photo being used).

 

Maybe if there wasn't a benefits cap then not so many food parcels would be needed?

[zag]

Maybe if there wasn't a benefits cap then not so many food parcels would be needed?

 

You would hope people could feed themselves on £26,000!! Otherwise the world really has gone mad.

 

I seem to remember surviving at university on about £10 a week!

[Garacesh]

I mentioned earlier that I'd be ecstatic to get 26kpa, but then people were mentioning cost of care etc which were valid points.. But at the end of the day, just 'cause the cap is £26,000, doesn't mean anyone is actually getting that much. You could easily feed a standard nuclear family on 26kpa and never have to work a day in your life.. But if your benefits only give you, say, 7k, you're going to struggle. So it all depends on what you get and what your costs are.

[Andrew_C]

You would hope people could feed themselves on £26,000

Yep, I could feed myself on that, no trouble. Feed a family, cloth them, get some kids to school, with a quality of life I'd expect in the 6th wealthiest country? Nah, I'd struggle.

[LosOjos]

You would hope people could feed themselves on £26,000!! Otherwise the world really has gone mad.

 

I seem to remember surviving at university on about £10 a week!

 

The country really has gone mad.

 

Cost of living keeps going up, but wages are frozen, benefits are capped/cut. Council tax goes up, rent goes up (no chance of a mortgage or social housing for majority of people), shopping goes up, but incoming money is reducing or just plain not increasing, which is effectively a reduction.

 

The problem I find with most Tory voters (not all) is they're very selfish; as long as they're OK, they can't understand why everybody else isn't.

 

I'm glad you're not suffering under this government, that's great for you, genuinely. Don't get me wrong, I'm not visiting the food banks myself, but the past few years certainly haven't been easy; both myself and my partner have had to work our rear ends off to earn pay rises and promotions just so that we're no worse off than we were 5 years ago. I have family doing much worse than I am too.

 

Look beyond the end of your nose, look past the hyperbole the press puts out and realise this country really is in terrible shape right now.

[tmcd35]

You would hope people could feed themselves on £26,000!! Otherwise the world really has gone mad.

 

I seem to remember surviving at university on about £10 a week!

 

Without knowing the individual circumstances I'm unwilling to say. I live quiet comfortable as a single person earning around that wage. As a single person with a couple of sprogs I can imagine not feeling so comfortable, but am not in that position to know how I would cope/finance differently.

 

Without knowing the exact circumstances and comparing to a similar family on low wage using tax credits to top up their earnings, I wouldn't want to commit to the right or wrongs of that figure one way or another.

 

One thing I can be very sure about - a single unemployed individual cannot claim anywhere near £26k in benefits. We're talking a family, possibly two unemployed adults, some kids, maybe even disability of some nature.

[Quackers]

You would hope people could feed themselves on £26,000!! Otherwise the world really has gone mad.

 

I seem to remember surviving at university on about £10 a week!

 

my ex's sister has been on benefits most of her adult life, has 4 kids. Says she is always skint, yet has the top package of Virgin Media at over £100 a month with movies and sport, smokes and often orders takeaways :roll eyes:

 

I think some people have necessities confused with non essentials, and thats part of the problem.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Quackers