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2015 Election

MatthewL

By MatthewL
in General Chat

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Who are you going to vote for?  

306 members have voted

  1. 1. Who are you going to vote for?

    • Conservatives
      71
    • Labour
      89
    • Lib Dems
      19
    • UKIP
      40
    • BNP
      0
    • Greens
      41
    • SNP
      2
    • Plaid Cymru
      1
    • DUP
      0
    • Sinn Fein
      0
    • SDLP
      0
    • Other
      6
    • Will not vote
      26
    • Spoiled ballot paper
      11

Recommended Posts

localzuk

localzuk

Posted
Posted
You would hope people could feed themselves on £26,000!! Otherwise the world really has gone mad.

 

I seem to remember surviving at university on about £10 a week!

 

Not being able to see beyond the end of your nose doesn't help things here.

 

You ever had a family to house, feed, put through school, possibly in an expensive area (eg. London) for less than £26k pa? I say less than because most people aren't eligable for the full amount anyway.

 

£26k won't go far in London, or many places in the UK in fact.

 

I'm comfortable on that sort of amount of money myself, but I'm single and living with friends. If I had a family? I'd be scratching my head as to how I should be able to support them on it.

tmcd35

tmcd35

Posted
Posted

It's also worth pointing out that the mythical £26k wouldn't be one lump sum payment - there you go try not spend it all in the Bookmakers or on Lottery tickets. Things like council tax and rent are paid direct to the council and probably make a good proportion of that figure.

 

Also, I think you need to compare against tax credits and what low wages are being topped up to. Does tax credits top up working families of a similar demographic to the same £26k?

 

Sure some people have their priorities wrong (I've seen family members on benefits pay for high sky packages and then wonder why they can't afford a bus pass). But maybe the answer is to introduce decent economics lessons in to secondary schools as part of the national curriculum? For many it'd be a more worth while qualification than GCSE Maths...

sparkeh

sparkeh

Posted
Posted
This is just a small example of what left wingers are capable of thinking.

 

http://media.ampp3d.co.uk/u/2014/04/mirror_front_page_food_banks-385x494.jpg

 

This is despite a £26,000 benefit cap in the last parliament.

You mean they are capable of feeling sympathy for hungry children? I don't see your point.

 

Also, still waiting for a right wing reply to the increasing numbers of children living in poverty under Tory rule. Guess I won't get one as its indefensible.

Garacesh

Garacesh

Posted
Posted
All you lot banging on about how hard it is to live on £26k are wasting your time.

 

£23k is the new magic figure. Or will be, soon enough.

 

It's looking that way, yes, but if we can agree that 26k is not enough, 23k is also not enough.

Personally I think 26k is definitely sufficient for the standard nuclear family* if they're outside of London. Inside of London, 26k won't get you a bacon sandwich and coffee on the way to work, so that's a different matter.

 

Rent/Mortgage: 700pcm

Water: 50pcm

Gas + Electric: 150pcm

Council tax: 150pcm

Phone + Internet: 50pcm

TV: 50pcm

Food: 150pcm

Car: 400pcm

Home insurance: 50pcm

Mobile Phones: 150pcm

Specific contents insurance**: 50pcm

(Figures inflated a beyond my own, as we're only a three-adult house that live well within our means, we don't buy a TV package, only 2 of us have contracts the other is PAYG, we don't have cars, etc. everything else is bought on credit (very very not often!) or saved up for)

 

Comes to 23,400pa. Of course this isn't reflective of everybody, just a general idea of what I think a family would be paying out. Doubtless I'm missing some things other families have. Also doesn't take into account the price of petrol each month as I have no idea what that costs. But let's just say for a moment this is reflective of the 'average' family outgoings per month.. Do you really think that your 'average' 2 working adults on benefits are going to get over 23k a year between them? No chance.

 

* By which I mean "Two adults, two children, no disabilities or other special requirements, attending a local public school."

** Such as mobile phones that may break outside the home and may not necessarily be covered under regular home insurance.

zag

zag

Posted
Posted

Don't forget that's 26k (or 23k if you must) AFTER TAX!!

 

Or the equivalent of about £34,000 I believe, if you were working.

featured_spectre

featured_spectre

Posted
Posted
I thought benefits weren't taxed, so it was the equivalent of earning 26k (or 23k) after tax?

 

Benefits are taxed if they go OVER the threshold for tax - Source: Me. Job seekers + council tax + housing benefit + child tax credits + working tax credits put the total over 10k, as a result the JSA got taxed as an income.

Garacesh

Garacesh

Posted
Posted
Benefits Calculator - entitledto - independent | accurate | reliable

 

Nuclear family, 1 boy, 1 girl, both 5-9. 2 Parents, both long term unemployed. No disabilities. 3 bed Council house in Lowestoft, band B:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]30521[/ATTACH]

 

Benefits are taxed if they go OVER the threshold for tax - Source: Me. Job seekers + council tax + housing benefit + child tax credits + working tax credits put the total over 10k, as a result the JSA got taxed as an income.

 

Well, I guess that tells me, then, huh?

Most I've ever been on is JSA+Housing so not earned enough to be taxed.

 

Well if that calculation of 22.something thousand is what we're going off, then according to the internets earning 22k a year will net you overall around 18k post-tax. Which if my calculations are anything to go by (can anyone confirm/deny their accuracy, for curiosities sake?) is nowhere near enough.

sonofsanta

sonofsanta

Posted
Posted
Benefits Calculator - entitledto - independent | accurate | reliable

 

Nuclear family, 1 boy, 1 girl, both 5-9. 2 Parents, both long term unemployed. No disabilities. 3 bed Council house in Lowestoft, band B:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]30521[/ATTACH]

 

Are you sure on what you've put in? Because if so, that situation is having the bedroom tax applied to a 3 bed house where there's parents + boy + girl, so... 3 bedrooms. How do they figure one of them is going unused? Are they assuming you only use on bedroom for your kids, even when they're different genders?

 

Not accusing you of anything, just trying to work out if I should be as shocked as I am if that is the case.

tmcd35

tmcd35

Posted
Posted (edited)
Are you sure on what you've put in? Because if so, that situation is having the bedroom tax applied to a 3 bed house where there's parents + boy + girl, so... 3 bedrooms. How do they figure one of them is going unused? Are they assuming you only use on bedroom for your kids, even when they're different genders?

 

Under the ages, 5-9, I think they can share a room!

 

edit: I also used @Garacesh's £700 figure for the rent so that'll effect things slightly.

Edited by tmcd35
Garacesh

Garacesh

Posted
Posted
Are you sure on what you've put in? Because if so, that situation is having the bedroom tax applied to a 3 bed house where there's parents + boy + girl, so... 3 bedrooms. How do they figure one of them is going unused? Are they assuming you only use on bedroom for your kids, even when they're different genders?

 

Not accusing you of anything, just trying to work out if I should be as shocked as I am if that is the case.

 

Children of different genders are legally allowed to share a bedroom up until x-age. I think it's something like 14 for boys, 12 for girls and 9 where the genders differ? Figures-out-of-a-hat, so don't quote me on them.

sonofsanta

sonofsanta

Posted
Posted (edited)

So I'd be taxed by the government if, for example, I had a three year old and a new born, and had the temerity to put the newborn into their own room so that they didn't wake the older child throughout the night? And that's assuming that the bedrooms in the council house are big enough to fit two beds in as well, along with all the space needed for clothing etc.

 

How many children do you have to have before you're counted as a legitimate user of that third bedroom? Should you fit 3 in a room? 4, in two bunk beds, youth hostel style? How ridiculous.

 

EDIT: according to @tmcd35's gov.uk link, you can fit 2 per bedroom. Still strikes me as an unfair charge under the circumstances.

Edited by sonofsanta
Garacesh

Garacesh

Posted
Posted
Presumably it's a 'general' thing and you'd argue your case per claim? So you'd apply and when they said "Yo, bedroom tax." you could write/call/email and say "I can't fit 2 beds in one room, they have to have separate bedrooms."
CAM

CAM

Posted
Posted
So I'd be taxed by the government if, for example, I had a three year old and a new born, and had the temerity to put the newborn into their own room so that they didn't wake the older child throughout the night? And that's assuming that the bedrooms in the council house are big enough to fit two beds in as well, along with all the space needed for clothing etc.

 

How many children do you have to have before you're counted as a legitimate user of that third bedroom? Should you fit 3 in a room? 4, in two bunk beds, youth hostel style? How ridiculous.

 

You have to think like the government. The newborn goes in a cot at the end of your bed!

LosOjos

LosOjos

Posted
Posted (edited)
Presumably it's a 'general' thing and you'd argue your case per claim? So you'd apply and when they said "Yo, bedroom tax." you could write/call/email and say "I can't fit 2 beds in one room, they have to have separate bedrooms."

 

You can appeal, but it's a lengthy legal process and you still have to pay it in the meantime, with no guarantees that you'll be successful. Oh, and there's no official guide on appealing, but various charities have stepped in to fill the void. Oh yeah and if you don't appeal, even if a decision is later made to change the rules in your area, you possibly won't benefit from the changes.

 

Challenging a 'bedroom tax' decision - Carers UK

 

More damning reading: http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tribunal-ruling-blow-to-bedroom-tax-tenants/7006117.article

 

A favourite quote from that article:

 

The ‘MA and Ors’ High Court decision in 2013 ruled that the bedroom tax was not a breach of the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR) because, although it was discriminatory against disabled people, it was justified because it was government policy.

 

That's right, the courts agrred that it was discrimination, but let it go because it's government policy. Couldn't make it up.

Edited by LosOjos
localzuk

localzuk

Posted
Posted
Say bye-bye to freedom of speech and civil liberties; vaguely worded laws with a low threshold of proof are headed our way.

 

New laws to target radicalisation - BBC News

 

Be careful not to criticise the new laws, they could be construed as "undermining democracy" or "British values of tolerance and mutual respect" :S

 

That's me scuppered then. My views on Islam, Christianity and religion in general would probably fall in their categorisation of lacking tolerance and mutual respect. But then, I think respect is earned and tolerance only applies to things that aren't damaging!

Andrew_C

Andrew_C

Posted
Posted (edited)

British Values; Thinking that a Friday night should be a pint of non-alcoholic lager and a fight followed by a Doner Kebab.

Under the proposals, ministers would be able to silence any group or individual they believe is undermining democracy or the British values of tolerance and mutual respect.
That's the Beeb closed down then. Edited by Andrew_C

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