carr1980 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Hi all, We have just moved into our new BSF building which has been great, what has not been so great has been our new CC4 network form RM. We are 1 year into our 6 year managed service contract and our IT has gone backwards. Internet issues (only on CC4 machines), Very Slow log ons, student getting profile errors, leagcy laptops that worked fine before now v slow, constant not responding messages on screen and much more! Help does anyone have anything possitive to say about either RM or CC4 to convince me these are just teething problems?
MacGeek Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 We were in a similar situation when we moved into our BSF school four years ago. Four years later CC4 still performs as poorly as you describe. Get used to watching the "Please Wait" screen for hours and hours.
Chris_Jones Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 If you are in a managed service, there should be specific Service Level agreements covering login times etc - if these are not being met then the provider should get people in to sort it or they should be facing penalties. I would suggest keep ringing their help desk and raising calls about these issues every time it crops up (even if you are ringing them umpteen times a day!)
Michael Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 The general feedback from CC4 admins on Edugeek are that earlier builds of RM CC4 were problematic, but later builds (I think RM CC4.3) are more stable.
synaesthesia Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 It's absolutely fine - there were problems with earlier builds but even those when managed properly performed decently. If you're getting such issues then speak to your managed provider with a list of your concerns and what you expect from them.
jamesfed Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 When I was at a RM CC$ school I kicked up a whole load of fuss over the speed/stablity of their take on software that it came down to a meeting between the NM, HT, our RM account manager and one of their 'senior techs' - in the end it saw 4 days of (free) on site support from RM while their guys sorted it out. Kick up a fuss with RM, make sure your HT knows what you are doing and in the end the mighty RM beast will cave in and they will give you a network that works.
bossman Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Having run on 3 different RM systems over 10 years I find it always comes down to the initial commisioning of the servers and also the network switching and backbone setup. RMCC2.4: Full of backdoor holes for the students to climb through. RMCC3: Brand new install worked extremely well and logon times were quick lasted 8 years RMCC4.2: Fresh install on our own hardware, again very quick logon times, actually quicker than our CC3 fractionally. As with Vanilla networks it all depends on the initial setup and how the network switching and backbone is configured. I would definately hassle your managed service provider to get their finger out as it is not fit for purpose giving them examples, they have a duty to sort out under their SLA and there will be KPI's attached to this which will cost should they fail to meet them.
FN-GM Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 @carr1980 your problems sounds like there is something wrong with DNS. I would take a look in that area.
oaleksejuk-concerouk Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Have you checked any of the switches to see if somethings wrong? Im guessing as a fairly new BSF school they are all 1GB/s? try RMRing some of the slower computers also check that your RM updates are all on also check in the RMMC for any system updates for computers also if you are running RMVP i found that at one larger highschool putting the PCs into the groups with rm policfys on the SEPM this really slowed them down also try a vacuum of the cc4 database and when you can give the server/servers a restart
computerguy Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 We have a few CC4 schools and one of mine has the issue that when people want to log off, it takes forever Logging Off... shows for several minutes it means people often done log off, leave laptops on and eventually lose mapped drives and printers because of this any tips to fix up this logging off issue? Thanks
Snoochieboochies Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 any tips to fix up this logging off issue? Thanks Have you tried resetting the user profiles from the RMMC? From what i remember, CC4 generally has slower log-in/off times when compared to a vanilla network.
psydii Posted July 17, 2017 Posted July 17, 2017 Use the Windows Performance Analyser to drill down to see where the delay is. From there you can work with RM or make your own config changes to rectify the problem. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/performance-analysis/windows-performance-toolkit https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/askpfeplat/2013/03/22/troubleshooting-windows-performance-issues-using-the-windows-performance-recorder/
AlanD Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 I always hate feeling I need to step in to defend RM....because I am quite critical of what they offer - or at least what they charge for it. But to be honest - I support both the concept and largely - the product itself. Usually when I hear complaints on this forum about CC4 its from schools who having invested in CC4 either (a) choose not to continue with support payments and so, unsurprisingly don't get advice, critical patches and fixes or (b) insist on doing things the "non RM" way and then complain it doesn't work well. I agree - that CC4 does have an "overhead" on what the desktop PC does...as does adding AV, Netctrl, or any other additional software. Group policies can be particularly sluggish - but if you want a fully locked down vanilla PC you apply the same ones with the same speed hit. And Roaming policies are generally used - which again are often slower than mandatory ones. We have 9 year old Core2duo Conroe PCs with 4GB (increased from originally 1GB by cannibalising older machines as they are retired) and they are just fine....under 2 minutes to logon. We actually think 2 minutes is a long time - or target time is under a minute which all our newer machines manage - but most of them have SSD. And yes - I'd be knocking on RM's service desk every hour of the day until I understood why logon times were not as expected. And as it would appear you have a service contract presumably you are doing this - and presumably RM are actively supporting you - because again - RM support are good - actually they are really good - or at least generally. If I had to moan (and I do - very often) it would be because they don't always listen or believe you. For example I complained on and off since CC4 went in that MS updates were not installing everywhere. When I'd find a machine with missing updates - they would say rebuild it - which of course fixed it. Then I'd find some more and they reinstalled WSUS on the server - and then (some) updates went on....but not all. Eventually they reinstalled WSUS a second time....still some PCs missing seemingly random updates.....Then a couple of months ago they recommended CC4 managers should check a setting in WSUS - and hey presto after changing that - all updates now appear to be going on just fine. And yes there are irritations (=bugs) with the CC4 console ... and resuming a suspended task after it misses its next timeslot doesn't work - for example. But generally its a very "safe" and dependable way to deliver desktops to users albeit that it puts the network manager in a straight jacket requiring things to be done the RM way. So if you have a problem with logon speeds...it might well be RM related - in which case get them to fix it. 1
psydii Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 So if you have a problem with logon speeds...it might well be RM related - in which case get them to fix it. The trick is being able to prove what is causing the delay. Many many things are going on at logon/off even before you factor in the schools chosen management tools. WPA gives irrefutable evidence as to the source of delays etc, and from there, with evidence, a solution can be found.
AlanD Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 We are talking about a "wired" not "wireless" implementation here aren't we?
Dotdotdooda Posted June 7, 2021 Posted June 7, 2021 Well, I know this is a very old thread, but for anyone new to or contemplating RM CC4 (and up), read and consider carefully. I have worked in several schools with the RM 'overlay'. Yes, it makes some management task easier and possibly helps schools with no regular IT support to manage some complex tasks. However, from a technician\management point of view, this 'overlay' can be a nightmare, as well as the 'support' that comes with a maintenance agreement. For any given problem you encounter with the system, reporting the issue usually (and I emphasise 'usually') results in as response that includes 'self fix' tech articles. These tech articles invariably point to other tech articles, making the fix process laborious and frustrating. The RMMC, which is intended to make your job easier, tends to be the root of most of your support calls as the system fails to do what it says on the box. An example of this being the build process for new machines. The Trend AV (sold to us by RM) has been a constant source of failure for the last two years. Despite continuous tech articles (sometimes, the same article sent by different support member) and remote support, this regularly stops working we cannot build the machines without building them in a different location them moving them in the console to add the AV after the process. Least of all the frustrations is that the build process has to get to the very end, sometimes over an hour later, before it fails and the machine is unusable. Software rollout can sit waiting for machines to become visible, even though they show as being online on the RMMC. Group policies fail to become active unless the PCs are restarted several times (not just the two advised by RM). Processes can sit in the 'In Progress' Task area and most of the time can't be stopped until the timeout (four days!!!). There are so many quirks in the system and very little flexibility to do anything outside the system. New feature releases from M$ tend to create the most chaos and add disturbance. The latest release (as of writing) could not be tested under the RM test area as it failed to rollout, so we have been left to manually test and rollout the release. Any system that requires this dual approach should raise questions as to why do we need the overlay in the first place? In previous schools, I removed the RM overlay and everything became 'The Microsoft way', which was far simpler. However, for anyone who is no experience with Server OS, AD, GP, WDS, WSUS and all things MS, RM CC4 may still be the way to go. There will be people who love the CC4 overlay and there will be others that need far more flexibility and control over their network. There are undoubtedly other very good management overlay tools, but if you are a technician\manager of a network and you can keep up with M$, it's probably far better to stay the course and do it the M$ way. This is all personal experience and view, so it's only for consideration, not advisement. 3
ITGURU Posted June 7, 2021 Posted June 7, 2021 So glad i've just decommissioned a schools last CC4 server and gone to Vanilla! 2
WorksOnMyPC Posted June 8, 2021 Posted June 8, 2021 Best thing I ever did, so good in fact I've done it three times now!
synaesthesia Posted June 8, 2021 Posted June 8, 2021 I'd go as far as saying the removal of RM's systems is likely one of the most popular topics in past years, although not so much these days as it's absolutely not as prevalent as it once was. 1
tdk1069 Posted June 8, 2021 Posted June 8, 2021 We doing it as part of a merge, so 2 RM into 1 AD... Twice the fun ! 1
Chuckster Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 In my last school they were using CC3. A year in and I removed it for a vanilla solution with XP. In my current employment I work across 2 schools, both of which have/had CC4 networks. My predecessor misconfigured a lot of the settings and, quite frankly, was inempt at running the system along with the rest of the infrastructures. Anyway, I spent both half-terms replacing it Windows 10 and Server 2019 OSes. One thing I will say is if you do things the RM way, then you shouldn't really experience any trouble with their system. Unfortunately, despite my predecessor using a third-party company to do the installation on behalf of RM, I feel like it wasn't done properly and he didn't do much with it, either, than perhaps tinker with it and learn how it all works.
Zammo Posted December 8, 2021 Posted December 8, 2021 I think I have said this before, but I have never seen on edugeek (or heard in person) of a single school removing CC4 and regretting it. It simply doesn't happen. It's a bad product that fails to deliver in some pretty fundamental ways and costs a premium.
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