2010 - Not long now...

[steele_uk]

Did a search and didn't see this rearing its ugly head lately.

 

This is like a train wreck waiting to happen here. Our registers look fantastic, ( after they have been tidied a week later).

 

So, what are your plans?

 

1 .What product are you going to use to publish your data to parents?

 

2. How confident are you that the attendance data is accurate. ( In real time )

 

 

3. What data do you plan to publish in the early stages - AM/PM reg, all lesson attendance, behaviour?

 

Finally i haven't found a document from the DCSF that explains exactly what schools will legally be obliged to publish. Can anyone point me to anything?

 

Cheers

[powdarrmonkey]

What's happening in 2010??

[Mcshammer_dj]

What's happening in 2010??

 

by Sept 2010 all secondary schools will need to have plans to allow Parental access to childrens attainment and attendance online and realtime

[apoth0r]

Sounds like crazy pills in 2009!

 

Please elaborate! Sounds like some sort of parent information scheme! Crikey!

[Gatt]

This will be interesting getting all teachers to actually take their registers at the start of each lesson!

 

Though we are finally making headway with them and most are now at least taking a register!

[Edu-IT]

by Sept 2010 all secondary schools will need to have plans to allow Parental access to childrens attainment and attendance online and realtime

Have plans or have in place?

[Gatt]

Hmm 2010... oh thats when I get absorbed into the Collective

[GrumbleDook]

The real-time section of the agenda has sort of disappeared off the radar ... but will no doubt rear its head again eventually (when more suppliers have viable solutions perhaps).

 

We are putting together a paper in Northants based on repsonses from suppliers we have contacted about this and will hold an open day to allow schools to speak with suppliers.

 

Also remember that the agenda is not online reporting ... but Parental Engagement. The online reporting section is a part of it.

[witch]

We are still completely paper based - two networks - staff can't access Sims or anything to do registers. They probably wouldn't anyway!

 

We are currently looking at the parental access/VLE question but it is proving very difficult with a head who doesnt really care about IT or anything similar

[ben]

I found a FAQ document the other day on the BECTA website

 

From the document:

What do I have to do and when?

 

Secondary schools are expected to make the following information available to parents through secure online access by September 2010:

 

• Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
  
• Progress and attainment
  
• Special needs
  

All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012.

 

The full document can be found here

[Sylv3r]

We already have this live here for our parents.

 

Via the SIMS webparts. All parents have access to Student Attendance, behaviour and assessment information in realtime.

 

Staff are aware that parents can access information anytime and anywhere and they are accountable for any information they do or do not complete.

 

Electronic Registration was a little shoddy before we gave access to Parents now parents are pretty accurate and complete the registers right at the start of the lesson.

 

Staff also whilst filling in behaviour referrals do not mention other student names as they did before the external access - it is now Andrew and another student were caught fighting rather than Andrew and James.....

 

Our students also have access to their information so they can see that they are being tracked at all times.... I did have hesitations at first whether the number of behaviour referrals will start a competition between students on who can clock up the most but this has not been the case thankfully.

[mossj]

We have been provided with a We-Learn VLE by the LEA (which is also used by the rm/pfi machines we still have in school, although we are slowly imaging them across mwawawa) and this ties in with sims. This is what it should be doing by that date (we have nothing to do with it), nor do i want anything to do with it as it updates the user list so inconsistantly its unreal. Edited May 19, 2009 by mossj

[beeswax]

We've been using Bromcom's My Child at School for about 6 weeks now. It pulls all the relevant info from SIMS.

[Sivadam]

Quite a few of us have being doing this already via SIMS Learning Gateway. I thoroughly recommend it. It is working now and will be much better and more comprehensive over the next few months as the proposed upgrades arrive.

As stated above, Staff are now more accountable for doing things correctly and on time.

[towen]

We've been using Bromcom's My Child at School for about 6 weeks now. It pulls all the relevant info from SIMS.

 

I bet it was quite expensive

[CaterinaAnna]

We've been using Bromcom's My Child at School for about 6 weeks now. It pulls all the relevant info from SIMS.

 

We're having a few problems with how this and SIMs are communicating - they're not affecting many parents, but it is irritating.

On the plus side, the parents that can get in think it's great. Staff do too - even though they can't see it and they do get pulled up about inconsistencies/gaps in their registers more often.

[klawd]

Did a search and didn't see this rearing its ugly head lately.

 

This is like a train wreck waiting to happen here. Our registers look fantastic, ( after they have been tidied a week later).

 

So, what are your plans?

 

1 .What product are you going to use to publish your data to parents?

 

2. How confident are you that the attendance data is accurate. ( In real time )

 

 

3. What data do you plan to publish in the early stages - AM/PM reg, all lesson attendance, behaviour?

 

Finally i haven't found a document from the DCSF that explains exactly what schools will legally be obliged to publish. Can anyone point me to anything?

 

Cheers

 

1. We will likely write our own system, if forced

2. Confident it is inaccurate

3. Will publish nothing that has not been already "Processed" into a sensible format - We feel providing information without context is inviting problems.

 

As far as I read, the requirement for realtime access was scrapped. I also suspect the whole initiative may be dropped, or at least made not mandatory.

 

These things tend to dissapear on their own, if you hang back and let other schools/orgs spend the money and end up with a costly mess.

[MattMitchell]

1. We will likely write our own system, if forced

2. Confident it is inaccurate

3. Will publish nothing that has not been already "Processed" into a sensible format - We feel providing information without context is inviting problems.

1. I'm toying with the roll-your-own aspect,as it's my background; however a few schools in our LA are using SLG, and there's a convincing case for basing things around a package that will have strong LA support (creation of templates, standardised schemes, etc) and also that a successor in post can handle if you fall off your perch or run to another job/school/country.
   
2. Received wisdom is that most schools have at least one inaccurately recorded register group with probability P = 1 * y^2 (where y is equal to 1 on days ending with a y...)
   
3. I think it's a question of how you interpret the information, and how you present it to parents in a clear, jargon-free way. Attendance data is (IIRC) meant to be shown, but presumably "Your child has attended 80 out of 100 days so far this year" would be a better bet than "Your child isn't in Maths but then everyone knows <$mathsteacher> forgets to take the register".
   

As far as I read, the requirement for realtime access was scrapped. I also suspect the whole initiative may be dropped, or at least made not mandatory.

Are you sure on this? I know that the timetable for primary schools is a lot longer; I did get the impression that the actual reporting requirements haven't been formalised yet (hey, it's not like it's next year or anything...) so maybe the specifics will change.

 

The push for parental engagement seems qutie strong still, but the MIS developer guidelines mention termly progress summaries for parents as "desirable", so maybe full realtime isn't expected. I'm aiming things at a realtime = last known good setup, where any summary or analysis will display things up to the last collection point (termly, yearly, etc, depending on the scenario).

 

I think the uptake of VLEs will push realtime-realtime reporting forwards though: it won't look good if you can see live assessment results and targets from a VLE, but the latest teach assessment is over two terms old. Where parents *are* directly engaging, I think this will make realtime happen in a lot of schools anyway.

 

My main concern is that the data in the system is current and accurate; maybe if parents can see the information teaching staff record in the system live, it will force staff to enter data in a timely and accurate fashion! ;-)

[klawd]

1. I'm toying with the roll-your-own aspect,as it's my background; however a few schools in our LA are using SLG, and there's a convincing case for basing things around a package that will have strong LA support (creation of templates, standardised schemes, etc) and also that a successor in post can handle if you fall off your perch or run to another job/school/country.
   
2. Received wisdom is that most schools have at least one inaccurately recorded register group with probability P = 1 * y^2 (where y is equal to 1 on days ending with a y...)
   
3. I think it's a question of how you interpret the information, and how you present it to parents in a clear, jargon-free way. Attendance data is (IIRC) meant to be shown, but presumably "Your child has attended 80 out of 100 days so far this year" would be a better bet than "Your child isn't in Maths but then everyone knows <$mathsteacher> forgets to take the register".
   

 

I think you have a good point, we were waiting for the LA to get something together, which seems to be taking forever, and since they don't appear to be that bothered in implementing, neither were we. There are data protection and access issues I would rather someone else deal with, with direct access to information.

 

"Your child has attended 80 out of 100 days so far this year"

 

On its own that information is not very useful. What happened to the other 20 days?

Context is important.

 

 

Are you sure on this? I know that the timetable for primary schools is a lot longer; I did get the impression that the actual reporting requirements haven't been formalised yet (hey, it's not like it's next year or anything...) so maybe the specifics will change.

 

I'm not 100% sure. But I can see real issues with how realtime data would be collected. I have seen nothing yet that convinces me this would be possible on a large scale. (Our SIMS server is slow enough with 20 users, let alone access by possibly 1000+)

 

The push for parental engagement seems qutie strong still, but the MIS developer guidelines mention termly progress summaries for parents as "desirable", so maybe full realtime isn't expected. I'm aiming things at a realtime = last known good setup, where any summary or analysis will display things up to the last collection point (termly, yearly, etc, depending on the scenario).

 

The problem of "parental engagement" is not a technological one however, and making a mountain on information available is unlikely to solve that.

 

I think the uptake of VLEs will push realtime-realtime reporting forwards though: it won't look good if you can see live assessment results and targets from a VLE, but the latest teach assessment is over two terms old. Where parents *are* directly engaging, I think this will make realtime happen in a lot of schools anyway.

 

One thing I have noticed, is that the way schools report and what they report seems to vary quite a lot. When you have teachers arguing over what a level or sub level means, I find it hard to imagine a parent accepting or understanding a particular grade. Of course, this happens now to some extent, but opening up the data, also opens the floodgates to parents asking for justification on every point of data. I can't see teachers having the time or inclination to explain such details.

 

I can see the value in making reports available online (scrapping paper copies etc), and its something we hope do, in a very reduced format. But making things such as behaviour records available is a total no-go. Those records are not intended for parents direct consumption.

 

My main concern is that the data in the system is current and accurate; maybe if parents can see the information teaching staff record in the system live, it will force staff to enter data in a timely and accurate fashion! ;-)

 

"Timely" and "Accurate" and not something I see teachers that worried about.

[PhilNeal]

Klawd, I recommend that you get a health check on your server (unless its on its last legs) SIMS is not slow in any of the schools I visit.

[mrforgetful]

SIMS.

 

Sept. 2010 is ages away.

[MattMitchell]

Klawd, I recommend that you get a health check on your server (unless its on its last legs) SIMS is not slow in any of the schools I visit.

 

We've got a slight speed issue on our site - some reports can take minutes to open, and admin staff report the same "lock-up" problem sometimes on editing single records, although I do realise this can be a subjective thing. Our SQL server is quite substantial, but I'm going to have a look at the hardware side with ICT this term and look at bandwidth and profiling memory usage.

 

I'm presuming that SLG would run on an application server, with one queue on that end communicating with the RDBMS, rather than opening multiple connections as the number of web clients increases. Most apps that scale do that, and I'm assuming SIMS does the same!...

 

There are data protection and access issues I would rather someone else deal with, with direct access to information.

 

Becta are still ruminating on the whole authentication issue - whether to go with Government Gateway or UK Access Management Federation in order to provide seamless single-sign on (feel the buzzword power!). Certainly I would prefer a solution that allows authentication from a robust, accepted and officially sanctioned provider rather than knocking up my own scheme in Perl and praying that I meet the LA/DCSF official policy. The general impression I get from ICT is that if we have to have it, the LA will provide a solution and (hopefully) fund it. Certainly we get our SIMS support there, and this includes a lot of support in terms of data services, template creation for TAs, etc.

 

When you have teachers arguing over what a level or sub level means, I find it hard to imagine a parent accepting or understanding a particular grade.

 

Like the attendance information, I think this kind of thing has to be provided to parents in context - we're looking at other schools' models on things like termly/annual reports and the communication of "on target"/"above target"/"below" rather than a stark emphasis on numbers. Even teachers who are used to reviewing the grades and forming judgements seem to prefer the visual clues of traffic lights, and I think that something along these lines (but simpler maybe) could work.

 

I think a lot of this will get easier once the 21st Century Schools report card consultation is finished, as at least this will give an indication of the direction things are likely to take; similarly it looks like they're putting together a replacement for KS3 SATs and a target-setting framework and you know these are going to have implications for all the direct access stuff...

 

Overall, I think allowing parents to see at least some information is a Good Thing; we just have to make sure it's in a clear context with clear explanations and as little educational jargon as possible!

[Sivadam]

Matt,

Have you seen SLG in action?

If not then I suggest you do. It will be even better when the Upgrades promised by the SLG Roadmap are delivered.

[MattMitchell]

I've downloaded the brochures and case studies and one of my jobs for today is to try out the live demo for it! I'm a little concerned about the licencing costs associated (sharepoint server, maybe changing web server platform, etc) but it'll be interesting to see what SLG can do; and to be honest, a solution that *doesn't* require me to develop and maintain the nuts and bolts has a lot of appeal...

[Sylv3r]

I've downloaded the brochures and case studies and one of my jobs for today is to try out the live demo for it! I'm a little concerned about the licencing costs associated (sharepoint server, maybe changing web server platform, etc) but it'll be interesting to see what SLG can do; and to be honest, a solution that *doesn't* require me to develop and maintain the nuts and bolts has a lot of appeal...

 

You could run it on the free Windows Sharepoint Services and won't need to purchase the full blown Sharepoint product and associated CALS.