Are ESS trying to make it harder to migrate away from to SIMS?

[Damon]

This wouldn't surprise me - I have 3 support methods for SIMS - Scomis, Edugeek then ESS, in that order! (and we don't use Scomis, it's just a really easy, useful and well googleable website with the info we often need)

 

It has to be said, when i've googled weird SIMS errors in the past, there's generally a result on Scomis' KB. Otherwise i'm prefixing my search with 'site:edugeek.net'

[coolhands]

Can someone just tell me though, which one for secondary school arbor or bromcom. Surely one is better than the other in general terms for secondary and I’d rather not listen to all the sales nonsense.

[nicholab]

I don’t know why some SLT are so addicted to SIMS and are unable to do a serious comparison of MIS choose with pro and cons. I worked at school in the West Midlands and that head force through SIMS when we were on Bromcom he did not allow IT to do a proper review of the options. I find it infuriating when so many of us have to jump through a process for so many things the biggest line item does not have this proper discussion making round it.

[synaesthesia]

Can someone just tell me though, which one for secondary school arbor or bromcom. Surely one is better than the other in general terms for secondary and I’d rather not listen to all the sales nonsense.

 

Not that simple - and it's not always about which is best, it's which is more suited. I've done SIMS to Arbor and currently doing SIMS to Bromcom and both are lightyears ahead in terms of functionality and convenience. Each needs boltons to some extent to keep up with some aspects like timetabling and data analysis, and from what I can see so far Bromcom slightly less so than Arbor but time will tell. It's a bit like asking which is better, Xbox or Playstation - it depends on the games you want to play

[dmj]

Can someone just tell me though, which one for secondary school arbor or bromcom. Surely one is better than the other in general terms for secondary and I’d rather not listen to all the sales nonsense.

 

Functionality aside, Arbor seem to have a 'better' tech stack in terms of their ability to scale and be a modern web platform.

[supportman]

Can someone just tell me though, which one for secondary school arbor or bromcom. Surely one is better than the other in general terms for secondary and I’d rather not listen to all the sales nonsense.

 

Bromcom traditionally had the secondary schools, but Arbor has caught up now with features. Both are great MIS compared to Sims.

[msi_school]

I don’t know why some SLT are so addicted to SIMS and are unable to do a serious comparison of MIS choose with pro and cons. I worked at school in the West Midlands and that head force through SIMS when we were on Bromcom he did not allow IT to do a proper review of the options. I find it infuriating when so many of us have to jump through a process for so many things the biggest line item does not have this proper discussion making round it.

 

Fear.

 

They will often have a Data Manager who has grown into the position from an office or admin route rather than a Data or IT route and they and the SLT are correctly aware of the depth, complexity and fragility of SIMS. They often have a "magic" report or process that they see as essential. This drives them to the incorrect conclusion that changing it will be difficult and problematic, especially if they have been told that their report or process will have to change.

 

They can not see that whilst the change needs to be managed properly the out come will be better, the biggest head banging moment I have had talking about a new MIS is to do with training you would think teachers could see the value in teaching a skill. In my mind giving the whole staff training in the new system will bring everyone to a good level of understanding and the whole staff will have a proficiency with the new MIS. The SLTs often disagree.

[supportman]

Fear.

 

They will often have a Data Manager who has grown into the position from an office or admin route rather than a Data or IT route and they and the SLT are correctly aware of the depth, complexity and fragility of SIMS. They often have a "magic" report or process that they see as essential. This drives them to the incorrect conclusion that changing it will be difficult and problematic, especially if they have been told that their report or process will have to change.

 

They can not see that whilst the change needs to be managed properly the out come will be better, the biggest head banging moment I have had talking about a new MIS is to do with training you would think teachers could see the value in teaching a skill. In my mind giving the whole staff training in the new system will bring everyone to a good level of understanding and the whole staff will have a proficiency with the new MIS. The SLTs often disagree.

 

That's pretty hilarious though, we moved MIS's a while back now and it took about an hour for our data manager to learn the new system of oData feeds and Excel. She absolutely loved it compared to Sims. She's now happily using Power Bi drag and drop to create some awesome stuff, again using the simple oData feed.

 

Our teachers had 10mins of training on taking registers and were up and running that morning.

 

Changing MIS is really not a big deal, especially when its just launching a website.

[AlistairB1983]

Fear.

They will often have a Data Manager who has grown into the position from an office or admin route rather than a Data or IT route and they and the SLT are correctly aware of the depth, complexity and fragility of SIMS. They often have a "magic" report or process that they see as essential. This drives them to the incorrect conclusion that changing it will be difficult and problematic, especially if they have been told that their report or process will have to change.

They can not see that whilst the change needs to be managed properly the out come will be better, the biggest head banging moment I have had talking about a new MIS is to do with training you would think teachers could see the value in teaching a skill. In my mind giving the whole staff training in the new system will bring everyone to a good level of understanding and the whole staff will have a proficiency with the new MIS. The SLTs often disagree.

 

This.

 

As a Data Manager, I've encountered too many other staff (both Data Managers and SLT) who are clinging on for dear life to 'how things have always been done', without stopping to ask whether they could be done differently/better.

 

Every other MIS makes processes quicker and simpler than SIMS. However the processes are often not exactly the same and people get hung up on needing EXACTLY this or that, rather than examining what the purposes of having this or that is, and whether the same result can be achieved by getting something similar, but not exactly the same.

[AlistairB1983]

Can someone just tell me though, which one for secondary school arbor or bromcom. Surely one is better than the other in general terms for secondary and I’d rather not listen to all the sales nonsense.

They each have their own positive and negative aspects, so it's up to you as an individual/school as to how important each of those positives/negatives are.

 

So you're not going to be able to get a single objective judgement as to which is better, as it's an entirely subjective decision.

[msi_school]

That's pretty hilarious though, we moved MIS's a while back now and it took about an hour for our data manager to learn the new system of oData feeds and Excel. She absolutely loved it compared to Sims. She's now happily using Power Bi drag and drop to create some awesome stuff, again using the simple oData feed.

 

Our teachers had 10mins of training on taking registers and were up and running that morning.

 

Changing MIS is really not a big deal, especially when its just launching a website.

 

Everyone who posted to EduGeek knows this because we all have jobs and interests that require us to use many different pieces of software and know that our experience is transferable between them.

 

The SLTs and Data managers who block the move from SIMS are not the same as us, they fear the system like the Adeptus Mechanicus, praying to the machine God and following a precise ritual least their souls get eaten. This is not a criticism of them as people it is just that they do not view computers like we do.

[Andrew_C]

an entirely subjective decision.

Isn't that the sort of thing that gets people sued?

[MrEprise]

Changing MIS is really not a big deal, especially when its just launching a website.

 

Many of our Teachers would love to move away from SIMS, even when you consider that launching it on an alternate platform can be rather clunky especially in this day and age. It's certainly doable but we probably shouldn't have to really.

 

Some Admin staff are a bit apprehensive but I think many would pick it up quite quickly if given a chance.

[Michael]

Out of curiosity, has anyone had any confirmed/concrete information as to how long SIMS.net on a local server in school will continue to be supported?

[PotNoodleTech]

Out of curiosity, has anyone had any confirmed/concrete information as to how long SIMS.net on a local server in school will continue to be supported?

 

I'd be willing to wager not much longer. I recon you've got a year, max, before your forced into it.

[nicholab]

Everyone who posted to EduGeek knows this because we all have jobs and interests that require us to use many different pieces of software and know that our experience is transferable between them.

 

The SLTs and Data managers who block the move from SIMS are not the same as us, they fear the system like the Adeptus Mechanicus, praying to the machine God and following a precise ritual least their souls get eaten. This is not a criticism of them as people it is just that they do not view computers like we do.

 

This seems scandalous that these people are allowed to keep wasting money for poor outcomes. Especially when everything we buy goes continuously examined for best value. It also show no trust in IT personnel that they will not let them make the decision. It some what like the defence budget having to keep nuclear weapons but the head of the military can’t get rid of them!

Edited October 18, 2024 by nicholab

[DrBeaker]

This seems scandalous that these people are allowed to keep wasting money for poor outcomes. Especially when everything we buy goes continuously examined for best value. It also show no trust in IT personnel that they will not let them make the decision. It some what like the defence budget having to keep nuclear weapons but the head of the military can’t get rid of them!

For years and years we were able to purchase the same standard and brand of various IT bits, cables etc from one supplier.

 

They were cheap enough, good quality and readily available so most times I went with them for cost, reliability etc and ordered quite a few of everything every time.

Did the same again and again and again. It worked...and so yeah made perfect sense to me.

 

Change in policies and processes etc means we can't do that anymore ... So now everytime a random supplier or random type of cable is purchased.... Thereby affecting the quality control and standards we'd worked soooo hard to establish in the first place.

 

But as you say.... "No trust in IT personnel".

[Dr_Zeux]

That's pretty hilarious though, we moved MIS's a while back now and it took about an hour for our data manager to learn the new system of oData feeds and Excel. She absolutely loved it compared to Sims. She's now happily using Power Bi drag and drop to create some awesome stuff, again using the simple oData feed.

 

Our teachers had 10mins of training on taking registers and were up and running that morning.

 

Changing MIS is really not a big deal, especially when its just launching a website.

 

Supportman - you do make is sound quite simple. I can only imagine you're not configuring the back end, and/or trying to setup/run reports, using assessment on a daily basis, etc.? We moved to Bromcom 2 years ago, and it's been a nightmare ever since! There are bugs with the software all over the place, and the support is mediocre, with some cases taking months to resolve. I still have a case, over 1 year old!!!! For reference, I logged/found 2 more bugs this week! Development ideas taking 3+ years to go anywhere... My biggest complaint is their comms (or lack of it) and how after the first year, you're just a statistic and they don't really seem to care about you at all... We have so many problems with our Virtual school, and no one at Bromcom is listening to them, they keep passing the buck to someone else - i'm not entirely surprised, no one seems to understand the Virtual school on their helpdesk and only 1 expert at Bromcom on VS who takes ages to respond to cases. But the main problem is the product is not fit for purpose and doesn't really work for a consortium, but they do not want to hear our complaints at all, they just want our money...

Edited October 18, 2024 by dbluston

[Dr_Zeux]

Can someone just tell me though, which one for secondary school arbor or bromcom. Surely one is better than the other in general terms for secondary and I’d rather not listen to all the sales nonsense.

 

I can't speak for Abor, but my advice would be stay away from Bromcom!

[Rob_D]

I can't speak for Abor, but my advice would be stay away from Bromcom!

Any particular reason?

[Dr_Zeux]

Any particular reason?

 

The Virtual school is where our consortium schools struggle the most, the software isn't really fit for purpose - attendance/exams/access arrangements/documents, etc. do not flow back and forth from partner to virtual school. This is really problematic and time consuming for 6th form. Daily tasks are duplicated as a result. The platform itself seems to be managed by developers that are outsourced in another country, and therefore updates are not tested thoroughly before released - the outcome being there are lots of bugs after a release. I'll give you an example, last year, after Quick reports were introduced, there was wave after wave of assessment problems/bugs - it was driving me mad! I complained to Customer care about it, and I did receive one response, then Customer care went quiet and didn't respond to my emails. But the bugs continued for months!

 

Our CSM left Bromcom in Oct 2023, but we weren't informed - I subsequently found out as emails just started bouncing back. So, no one let us know he was leaving and/or if he was being replaced. I later found out through one of our consortium schools that he was not being replaced. Though, we were discussing so many issues at the time - and the dialogue was actually really important, but was not passed on to anyone at Bromcom. The issues were simply forgotten. Their comms has been really poor.

 

Helpdesk are good on the phone, but resolving cases sometimes takes a really long time to resolve - i had a lot of cases last year that were taking months to get resolved. I actually complained on here last year about the number of cases that I had open that were over 2 months old, some 4/5 months. I still have a case that is now 1 year old and not resolved!!! Fundamentally, they're understaffed and they are constantly recruiting to keep up with demand - ever since we joined them, they haven't quite kept up with their staffing needs. In our first term with Bromcom, helpdesk didn't answer the phone for at least 1.5hrs - you were in a queue for this long! Overall, I spend too much of my time either troubleshooting or logging Bromcom issues, often a software issue.

 

Development ideas - finally someone has been employed to deal with the massive backlog of genuinely brilliant ideas, but there have been ideas on there rumbling on for 3+ years with over 200+ votes and the comments go on and on from customers. I think some are finally starting to be implemented into the product, but for example, simply printing a 2-week timetable on one page (arguably the most common function of a MIS) is still outstanding and something I voted for in Sept 2022 and has 200+ votes! Can you believe this is functionality is still so complicated and you cannot simply print a student's 2-week timetable (on one page) from the student's record by clicking a button!?

 

Lastly, the status update page - this does not actually reflect how often the system is down or how many performance issues are present. It's only updated if all schools across the country are down!!! There have been countless times that we've been affected, but there's no update on their status page - then you ring the helpdesk and they confirm there's performance issues or that other schools have also complained that the system is slow or down completely...

 

These are the things that spring to mind, but there are others...

Edited October 21, 2024 by dbluston

[Bromcom_Darren]

The Virtual school is where our consortium schools struggle the most, the software isn't really fit for purpose - attendance/exams/access arrangements/documents, etc. do not flow back and forth from partner to virtual school. This is really problematic and time consuming for 6th form. Daily tasks are duplicated as a result. The platform itself seems to be managed by developers that are outsourced in another country, and therefore updates are not tested thoroughly before released - the outcome being there are lots of bugs after a release. I'll give you an example, last year, after Quick reports were introduced, there was wave after wave of assessment problems/bugs - it was driving me mad! I complained to Customer care about it, and I did receive one response, then Customer care went quiet and didn't respond to my emails. But the bugs continued for months!

 

Our CSM left Bromcom in Oct 2023, but we weren't informed - I subsequently found out as emails just started bouncing back. So, no one let us know he was leaving and/or if he was being replaced. I later found out through one of our consortium schools that he was not being replaced. Though, we were discussing so many issues at the time - and the dialogue was actually really important, but was not passed on to anyone at Bromcom. The issues were simply forgotten. Their comms has been really poor.

 

Helpdesk are good on the phone, but resolving cases sometimes takes a really long time to resolve - i had a lot of cases last year that were taking months to get resolved. I actually complained on here last year about the number of cases that I had open that were over 2 months old, some 4/5 months. I still have a case that is now 1 year old and not resolved!!! Fundamentally, they're understaffed and they are constantly recruiting to keep up with demand - ever since we joined them, they haven't quite kept up with their staffing needs. In our first term with Bromcom, helpdesk didn't answer the phone for at least 1.5hrs - you were in a queue for this long! Overall, I spend too much of my time either troubleshooting or logging Bromcom issues, often a software issue.

 

Development ideas - finally someone has been employed to deal with the massive backlog of genuinely brilliant ideas, but there have been ideas on there rumbling on for 3+ years with over 200+ votes and the comments go on and on from customers. I think some are finally starting to be implemented into the product, but for example, simply printing a 2-week timetable on one page (arguably the most common function of a MIS) is still outstanding and something I voted for in Sept 2022 and has 200+ votes! Can you believe this is functionality is still so complicated and you cannot simply print a student's 2-week timetable (on one page) from the student's record by clicking a button!?

 

Lastly, the status update page - this does not actually reflect how often the system is down or how many performance issues are present. It's only updated if all schools across the country are down!!! There have been countless times that we've been affected, but there's no update on their status page - then you ring the helpdesk and they confirm there's performance issues or that other schools have also complained that the system is slow or down completely...

 

These are the things that spring to mind, but there are others...

 

Hi Darron,

 

I would like to take this opportunity to reach out and say that we at Bromcom do care about feedback and would like to arrange a call to discuss your queries and issues you are currently facing.

 

A member of the team will be in touch in the near future to arrange a call with you.

 

Thanks

Darren Moody

Bromcom Community Manager

BromCommunity - Connect your community.

[Bromcom_John]

they fear the system like the Adeptus Mechanicus, praying to the machine God and following a precise ritual least their souls get eaten.

How to tell everyone you are a fan of 40k without telling everyone you are a fan of 40k

[msi_school]

How to tell everyone you are a fan of 40k without telling everyone you are a fan of 40k

 

I like the image.

 

Our users think of us like this, but in fact it its the reverse of what we should be doing.

[AlistairB1983]

How to tell everyone you are a fan of 40k without telling everyone you are a fan of 40k