SIMS .net and Open Office

[Mcshammer_dj]

Has anyone managed to get sims.net reports to work when using OPENOffice.org 2.4

 

Have ticked all boxes etc and am on May release but don't seem to be able to get this to work

[ICTNUT]

I have not tried it but seeing as all the reports and templates are based around MS Office I think you may struggle to get it to work.

[Butuz]

As far as I am aware SIMS.net requires MS Office 2003 for everything to work properly.

 

Andrew

[CyberNerd]

There is a detailed technical discussion of the problem with SIMS/OpenOffice here:

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/18628-capita-get-into-bed-uniservity-2.html

 

The upshot seems to be that SIMS basically does work with Ooo, but capita force documents to be opened in MSOffice

[PhilNeal]

Capita do not force the use of MS Office. Most outputs can go to OpenOffice.

[DMcCoy]

Does profiles work with openoffice then? As it doesn't work with 2007 yet!

[penfold_99]

Capita do not force the use of MS Office. Most outputs can go to OpenOffice.

 

Hi Phil,

 

Capita do force the use MS office, as you stated above MOST outputs can go to OpenOffice not ALL. Anything less than ALL denotes use of MS Office or MS Office Viewer is required!

 

I have detailed in this post http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/18628-capita-get-into-bed-uniservity-2.html#post185340 changes that are needed to allow ALL outputs to OpenOffice.

 

But apparently your "still investigate" the above post, more like stuffed in the bottom draw under the Microsoft-Capita Contract forcing Capita to use Microsoft technologies while paying lip service to Open Source so the OFT won't investigate a blatant case of State funding of Microsoft by the back door.

[Mcshammer_dj]

I have been looking at Open Office today. I installed onto my test system and install office 2003. All reports work fine. I then uninstalled office 2003 and installed Open Office 2.4. When I run reports I get a .com error . I have checked that the file extensions are set and I can open .rtf documents and .doc documents from a folder using open office.

 

I suppose I could look further but I am suprised that even such an easy test has failed at the first hurdle.

[penfold_99]

Mcshammer_dj,

 

the main issue as per the link on my other post is the use of .xml files.

 

If capita changed .xml to another format open office would work a lot better.

[Mcshammer_dj]

Capita do not force the use of MS Office. Most outputs can go to OpenOffice.

 

phil can you clarify this issue a bit please.

 

are you saying that there is nothing that should stop a report such as the birthday list for example from being able to be run in SIMS .net with the output being openoffice.org 2.4 and the writer package within?

 

When I raised this issue with the SIMS helpdesk I was simply told that Reports do not work with Open Office and that we would need to have Office 2003 or above.

[PhilNeal]

James, I saw your posting on SupportNet about you'd been told and am following it up.

 

SIMS including Profiles is tested and works with Office 2007. (The maco controls are different in Ofice 2007)

 

The outputs that work with OpenOffice are:

 

1. report generator
   
2. assessment manager
   
3. profiles - excluding graphs
   

 

We don't embed drop downs in OpenOffice so creating templates for profiles or AM is best done with Word.

 

Our standard reports were designed in Word which puts a header into the document which means that when you try to open it from IE it ignores the default program setting. (I'm afraid I don't understand this point!)

 

What is true is that as a company we aren't set up for handling OpenOffice as at the moment the demand is low.

[Mcshammer_dj]

Phil

Thanks for the response however could I get a further bit of clarification?

 

When you say:

The outputs that work with OpenOffice are:

 

report generator

assessment manager

profiles - excluding graphs

 

Are you saying that when we run a report Ie Birthday list we should expect that the report will run and then automatically start open office to display the output? or are you saying that data saved from a report can be opened using Open Office?

 

We accept that OPen source by it's very nature is difficult to offer any sort of support and always appreciate that any attempt to get this to work would normally be best efforts only.

 

We have our test rig configured now with open office as this could be a cost effective way to allow access to SIMS using terminal server in our schools where teachers would mainly be using attendance and assesment manager for data entry and reporting etc occasionally.

[DMcCoy]

James, I saw your posting on SupportNet about you'd been told and am following it up.

 

SIMS including Profiles is tested and works with Office 2007. (The maco controls are different in Ofice 2007)

 

The outputs that work with OpenOffice are:

 

1. report generator
   
2. assessment manager
   
3. profiles - excluding graphs
   

 

We don't embed drop downs in OpenOffice so creating templates for profiles or AM is best done with Word.

 

Our standard reports were designed in Word which puts a header into the document which means that when you try to open it from IE it ignores the default program setting. (I'm afraid I don't understand this point!)

 

What is true is that as a company we aren't set up for handling OpenOffice as at the moment the demand is low.

 

 

Having to turn ALL macro security off doesn't count as working for 2007. This is an unacceptable workaround.

[penfold_99]

Our standard reports were designed in Word which puts a header into the document which means that when you try to open it from IE it ignores the default program setting. (I'm afraid I don't understand this point!)

 

Phil,

 

If you have read my post, you should understand why xml file don't open in anything else

 

Hi Phil,

 

i believe your statement is incorrect, as all the xml files generated with SIMS.net have this

 

 

hard coded into every document. The line forces Internet explorer to open the xml in word.

 

I have tried to change the association of word.document in the registry

 

From

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Office\11.0\Common\Filter\text/xml

Word.Document = application/msword

 

to

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Office\11.0\Common\Filter\text/xml

Word.Document = application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text

 

this would allow xml file to be opened in open office but this doesn't work as internet explorer displays a blank page, it doesn't work with any other Microsoft product even write or notepad.

 

I have even changed xml files to be opened in firefox but as

 

 

is non-standard html/xml firefox ignores it.

 

The only work around is to open the file in word and save as a doc/odt file then this can be open office. But there is still a reliance on Microsoft word.

 

 

Have you looked into this? Given your answer

 

I'll have to get some help to answer your points around XML. I have realised that it is probably the .doc outputs that I have seen opened through OpenOffice.

 

What is true is that as a company we aren't set up for handling OpenOffice as at the moment the demand is low.

 

What would you constitute as High/Medium demand? No. of schools requesting it? etc

[CyberNerd]

We accept that OPen source by it's very nature is difficult to offer any sort of support and always appreciate that any attempt to get this to work would normally be best efforts only.

 

Open Source maybe, but the issue at stake is that SIMS won't output into an open Standard. The very standards that Becta say schools should be using. Penfold has given good examples of how Capita FORCE the use of MSOffice - some (complaints to the OFT) may say that this is evidence of how MS and Capita collude to keep the price of office suites artificially high. The fact that another workaround needs to be employed for 2k7 is just another reason why open standards should be adopted.

[penfold_99]

I have created a poll to canvas the view of edugeek users.

 

Should SIMS.net support OpenOffice to the same level as Microsoft Office?

 

Please use the link below to vote.

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/22094-sims-net-support-openoffice.html

[webman]

What is true is that as a company we aren't set up for handling OpenOffice as at the moment the demand is low.

 

If the demand was high enough, would you even bother to support OpenOffice? If so, how high does this demand have to be? (Eg. amount of school requests, Becta recommendations, law change?)

[Tonyoung]

Hi Phil,

 

But apparently your "still investigate" the above post, more like stuffed in the bottom draw under the Microsoft-Capita Contract forcing Capita to use Microsoft technologies while paying lip service to Open Source so the OFT won't investigate a blatant case of State funding of Microsoft by the back door.

 

As an occasional visitor to this forum I really appreciate the contributions from suppliers such as John Condon (Bromcom), Jenny Urey (Tasc) and most importantly from my perspective Phil Neal of Capita. If you have evidence of the allegation in the post regarding collusion between Capita and Microsoft let's hear it - if you don't then retract it. Anyone reading todays announcement around bank charges, and previously the investigation into BSF building contractors will know the OFT are not to be taken lightly.

 

I can't help but think that postings of this type will alienate our community from suppliers and Phil will find more important things to do with his time.

 

Penfold - put up or shut up.

[CyberNerd]

If you have evidence of the allegation in the post regarding collusion between Capita and Microsoft let's hear it -

 

 

Capita are using their dominant position in the MIS market to sell MSOffice.Phil 'says' openoffice will work but the capita support and evidence given by penfold show otherwise. In my view this clearly should be reported to OFT.

Competing products (OpenOffice) are being excluded from schools, as capita are keeping the cost of office solutions artificially high.

[Mr_M_Cox]

Every one needs to stop having a go at Capita.

 

The fact are we all have to use microsoft and capita and by making relations between the two and their users worse only leads to us losing out.

 

I suggest you keep your inflammatory remarks to yourself.

 

Penfold_99 - why start a war when all we want is an answer, go to your room!

[cookie_monster]

What is true is that as a company we aren't set up for handling OpenOffice as at the moment the demand is low.

 

I feel that's a bit of a chicken egg thing i bet if Capita SIMS fully supported OO then allot of schools would be VERY interested in moving, i know for a fact that many schools on here are held into MS Office due to Capita SIMS not functioning completely with OO.

 

I'm not having a go at Phil Neal i've found his input usefull many times but i'm calling is as i see it if it wasn't for SIMS we would be mainly OO here with a few MS Office admin clients.

 

 

.

Edited July 16, 2008 by cookie_monster

[CyberNerd]

Every one needs to stop having a go at Capita.

 

The fact are we all have to use microsoft and capita and by making relations between the two and their users worse only leads to us losing out.:

 

It is supposed to be an open market. The point of the OFT is so that the market remains open. You shouldn't just accept that we have to use it because that will ultimately stifle competition and innovation. Currently schools do not have choice over the MIS because of contracts between LA's and capita - thus any company trying to offer support for openoffice is excluded.

I do welcome Phil's presence on this forum, but his comments that SIMS does not force the use of MSOffice were quite misleading.

[localzuk]

We are very interested in using open office, but are being held back by the need for Office in SIMS.net. Switching from Office to OpenOffice would save us several thousand pounds a year, and would mean we could probably afford to buy some of the other modules in SIMS.net that we would like to use (for example, SIMS mobile).

 

Unless OpenOffice works 100% with SIMS.net, it cannot be claimed to work. You can't say that little bits of it work, because no school uses SIMS.net in that way.

[penfold_99]

As an occasional visitor to this forum I really appreciate the contributions from suppliers such as John Condon (Bromcom), Jenny Urey (Tasc) and most importantly from my perspective Phil Neal of Capita. If you have evidence of the allegation in the post regarding collusion between Capita and Microsoft let's hear it - if you don't then retract it. Anyone reading todays announcement around bank charges, and previously the investigation into BSF building contractors will know the OFT are not to be taken lightly.

 

I can't help but think that postings of this type will alienate our community from suppliers and Phil will find more important things to do with his time.

 

Penfold - put up or shut up.

 

Tonyoung,

 

If the community view about products is alienating suppliers then the suppliers has a serious problems! The suppliers should not run an hide from criticism they should engage in debate and together with the community create a better product.

 

If you have evidence of the allegation in the post regarding collusion between Capita and Microsoft let's hear it - if you don't then retract it.

 

There can argue that there is collusion between Microsoft and Capita.

As currently Capita solely use Microsoft Technologies.

• SIMS.net is written in .Net
  
• Uses MS SQL Server
  
• Uses IIS/MOSS for SIMS.net Learning Gateway
  
• Integration with Active Directory
  
• Integration with Microsoft Office
  
• Only run on Windows Platform
  

 

Because of the use of Microsoft Technologies it stifles competition in several areas Desktop OS, Server OS, Database Software, Word Processing Software etc. Schools are forced to buy into the expensive Microsoft upgrade cycle.

 

Some LEA's can also be included in this collusion, as many solely support Microsoft technologies and SIMS.net.

 

Becta have reported Microsoft to the OFT (19 October 2007) and so far nothing has happened, Microsoft has been reported to the EU Commission and fined but there practises still continue.

 

You could argue under EU law Microsoft should be excluded from all public tenders as they have been fined. In theory schools should be band from purchasing Microsoft software, but due to a loop hole they aren't.

 

Microsoft has gagged Becta from publishing the details of the three-year megadeal it agreed with Microsoft in April.

 

Microsoft gags UK schools - The INQUIRER

 

Even thou as part of the tender clause was the information could be release under a FOI request.

 

If there was an agreement between Capita and Microsoft, Microsoft would do every thing in it's power to keep it confidential and Capita would be bound not to say anything if it wanted to.

[cookie_monster]

You could argue under EU law Microsoft should be excluded from all public tenders as they have been fined.

 

I would like to see MS forced to play on a level field excluding them would be counter productive and anti competitive and i can only imagine the headach if schools suddenly couldn't buy their products and had to move to an alternative platform overnight.