Would you treat pupils the way you treat support staff

[blueday]

Interesting article, I'm sure a lot of people here would agree

 

https://www.tes.com/news/would-you-treat-pupils-way-you-treat-support-staff

[LeMarchand]

School librarians are often overlooked (no tag for them on this article!) but have so much to offer schools.

 

Guess who else isn't tagged?

[Lonix]

Still a good written article that doesn't just look at support staff as being hard workers, but touches on how some of us are highly qualified and can be ex teachers. It compares how the school treats students Vs us adults. That the very system/people that are expected to include and treat everyone fairly.. don't.

[DJ-1701]

But what I am asking for is one seat. One seat on the panel, when the subject is something that is not purely pedagogical. One seat around the SLT table for the person tasked with funding and resourcing our strategic plans and ensuring their compliance. One seat on the sector councils, review bodies and focus groups to represent that 52 per cent.

 

I can see one response being... 'But there is a seat for non-teaching, it's the PA taking the minutes.'

[fiza]

I can see one response being... 'But there is a seat for non-teaching, it's the PA taking the minutes.'

The article is written by a Business Manager. I thought they were already on SLT? Ours certainly is.

[TechMonkey]

The article is written by a Business Manager. I thought they were already on SLT? Ours certainly is.

 

That was the only thing that spoiled the article for me. Begging for just one seat at the table when every school I know has a Bursar, Business Manager or equivalent on SLT, whereas a mix of staff even on SMT would be useful. Estates manager/Head caretaker knows how the site runs and what can be accessed and what issues there are around the site, Office Manager/Heads PA knows about what capacity the office staff have for any extra work and know what knock on effect changes will have to admissions or exams or reception as well as being able to disseminate information to reception so they can inform parents and IT normally get pulled in to any plan and know the technical limitations of systems. Other wise you have one person running around everyone trying to find out what will work or not and the wrong information gets passed back.

 

The issue is Teaching matters get thought of as equivalent to the running of the school, what is taught is often discussed at the same meetings they discuss organisational things. Schools need to reorganise and recognise that the school is a varied organisation, and it needs to be done last week!

[DrBeaker]

I read this same one last night. I feel exactly the way the article said. Pretty unappreciated Al.

[Zammo]

I think its a shame that support staff in so many schools apparently feel this way. I am lucky in that in most schools this has not been an issue, apart from the pay & conditions when I was a NM line managing 3 people. But I knew the salary when I signed the contract.

 

What I will add though is this is not an issue unique to education. I have friends who work in IT Support for the Automotive industry and they get no better treatment compared to the designers, marketing and engineers, and absolutely no seat at the table.

[DrBeaker]

Think this.... says a lot OP. Not a mention about IT (the one's who were the enablers of said online learning platforms).

 

[Primus]

Think this.... says a lot OP. Not a mention about IT (the one's who were the enablers of said online learning platforms).

 

 

Whilst I agree with the sentiments of this thread that image says nothing like what you're suggesting. It's simply recognising ONE category of people, I've seen similar for doctors, nurses, delivery drivers, supermarket workers etc.

[DrBeaker]

Whilst I agree with the sentiments of this thread that image says nothing like what you're suggesting. It's simply recognising ONE category of people, I've seen similar for doctors, nurses, delivery drivers, supermarket workers etc.

 

Fair enough - Photoshop it for IT support for me then . Here's my crude attempt

The sheer lack of recognition especially during this Covid-19 crisis and how IT support has enabled all this to happen but still get no recognition, is felt by multiple IT people I speak with, especially so in schools. Which ties in with the OP's post as it only worsens how it makes some IT support teams feel - completely un-valued with no support - which ties in with mental health for staff, anxiety, depression, stress etc.

 

Other areas from delivery drivers to binman are being recognised, so why isn't IT? It's a valid question and relevant to the OP's thread.

[saggu]

Still a good written article that doesn't just look at support staff as being hard workers, but touches on how some of us are highly qualified and can be ex teachers. It compares how the school treats students Vs us adults. That the very system/people that are expected to include and treat everyone fairly.. don't.

 

I am one of them and feel exactly the same

[DrBeaker]

I am one of them and feel exactly the same

I'm no hero by any means. I do think the word is a bit overused these days.

 

I've certainly felt stressed and anxious during this Covid crisis moreso.

 

But a bit of recognition of what IT support teams across the globe in all areas achieved during the Covid crisis by whoever (government, management, etc) would be nice. Everyone else got noticed and recognition, so all we're asking for is the same. The article from OP pretty much reinforces how we feel.

 

Imagine a ship with 2x engines running it. IT support as engine #1 and Teaching as engine #2. They both have to work together to get the most power for the ship.

 

Engine #2 gets lots of maintenance and TLC to make sure it runs in tip top condition. Any issues with it are dealt with straight away.

 

Engine #1 however is underpowered and underated for what it's being asked to do. It needs spare parts due to system failures, but doesn't get them. Doesn't get any maintenance or TLC until it literally fails and stops.

 

But if engine #1 stops, engine #2 doesn't have the power to pick up the slack from engine #1 and eventually the ship stops.

 

Problem wise.... How would you solve the problem with engine #1?

[3s-gtech]

See, I feel I have been recognised and praised during this at work. Not overly so - just a mention in the staff meeting, the odd compliment about the systems I’ve implemented, positive comments in conversation, etc. I’ve been pretty ‘visible’ at work throughout, and I’m no shrinking violet, but I’ll counter that for me I have felt valued and that has been a good driver to keep working through the past six months with just one day off back in February.

[Jamman960]

It'd be interesting to see the history of support/teaching staff ratio's, I think a lot of this stems from the way teaching staff have often done things themselves initially and then eventually handed it out to admin/support staff - back in 2005 when I visited schools to install networks/workstations more of often than not I'd find that a member of teaching staff with a vauge interest in IT was responsible for everything IT related and didn't have a technician to rely on.

 

Even though I'm now the Network Manager I still report to the "Head of IT and Digital Strategy" who's one of our deputy heads and was originally the teacher with an interest in IT... I now get far more of a say in what goes on but ultimately he's the one that reports to the rest of SLT...

[Roberto]

It’s disheartening to see things like this. You guys ask for relatively so little and you often don’t get that.

 

I left Edu IT 18 months ago after 20 years at my last employer, for a broad range of reasons, but primarily because I was under-appreciated where I was. I recall a meeting with SLT where the IT director (a teacher) claimed the college didn’t have any ‘O365 knowledge’ on staff despite me having just told the whole of SLT that we already had it working (@norphy and I had got it going years ago) and despite me presenting a strategy for its use to SLT in that very meeting and despite a Microsoft employee tweeting her list of “50 people to follow in the O365 world” with my name appearing in the top 15.

 

This kind of treatment knocked my self-belief hugely. It isn’t an isolated incident either, both in terms of my former employer or the Edu IT sector as a whole.

 

My current employer, in the financial sector, has been the reverse of Edu. It’s funny but the same Edu director questioned if I’d like working in this sector because I was used to the “gentler, more people-focused” Edu sector. Fair point I guess, but since I’ve been here

 

• I’ve been given a pay rise and bonus already
  
• I’ve placed in a company award scheme that gives out fairly bigly Amazon vouchers.
  
• My partner and I have been invited to some very nice events (black tie dinners and the like)
  
• I’ve worked on really interesting international projects
  
• I’ve been taken out to dinner by divisional CIOs and COOs as thank-yous for getting projects done (one of whom flew in from Australia to do it - I’m sure he had other things to do too, but still they made the effort)
  
• When my partner and I ran a marathon to raise charity money, my employer matched what we raised
  
• We’re talking about a promotion for me
  
• My boss has identified my lack of self confidence, pointed how much they value my ability and committed to helping me fix that issue.
  

 

 

I’d go on, but I’ve made my point. Maybe my former director is an egregiously bad example but my experiences aren’t unique based on what I’ve seen here, so If you’re not a teacher (or possibly, even if you are) education is a toxic employer.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Roberto

[hardtailstar]

The sheer lack of recognition especially during this Covid-19 crisis and how IT support has enabled all this to happen but still get no recognition

 

I spent a whole week getting classrooms ready for our year 10s coming in, making sure all AV working, remotes with batteries.

 

Emailed the staff involved to say all working etc.

 

Did not get one email back of thanks or any face to face comments.

 

 

I've worked in EDU IT support for over 10 years and only ever been in one school that were supportive of support staff. Just a shame I was only there part time.

 

 

I'm over the need for being thanked for things now, its not going to change my work ethic, I will still put the same effort in and if I get thanked its a bonus.

 

Schools are set up for teachers to take all the credit and revolve around them. The same with football teams, nobody ever thanks the team doctor or stadium announcer when the footballers win the league etc.

[Sibrows]

So I've had jobs both in and out of Education, one of my observations more recently and with having some involvement at a trust level is a number of people who are great teachers don't make great managers or business leaders. And I think this is a by product of that reality.

 

I completely get the fact that education is the core business but there are a number of decisions that aren't considered from an impact on the business point-of-view.

 

To be fair to this very broad brush I'm using, its reflected in the comments above the training and structures aren't there be it HR, IT, Finance. A number of the Trusts need to be run like the corporate multi-site organisations that they are not just scaling up the 'lets just paper over the cracks and hope for the best' that they are.

[Lonix]

I’d go on, but I’ve made my point. Maybe my former director is an egregiously bad example but my experiences aren’t unique based on what I’ve seen here, so If you’re not a teacher (or possibly, even if you are) education is a toxic employer.

Are you seeking any additional IT staff?

Your story I've heard far more from the private sector, in fact the majority of IT people I know have all left education and I really am the only one left.

Even in education if you have the respect etc, it doesn't pay the bills and leadership (especially Academies) can pay staff more if they choose to do so. Unless there are valid reasons for objections by the directors/governors.

 

At the end of the day the teachers are going to protect teachers. We just get told to shut up and get on with it and stop whining. Meanwhile the same teachers moan about their working environment, pay and generally everything.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Lonix

[mavhc]

Imagine a ship with 2x engines running it. IT support as engine #1 and Teaching as engine #2. They both have to work together to get the most power for the ship.

 

Engine #2 gets lots of maintenance and TLC to make sure it runs in tip top condition. Any issues with it are dealt with straight away.

 

Engine #1 however is underpowered and underated for what it's being asked to do. It needs spare parts due to system failures, but doesn't get them. Doesn't get any maintenance or TLC until it literally fails and stops.

 

But if engine #1 stops, engine #2 doesn't have the power to pick up the slack from engine #1 and eventually the ship stops.

 

Problem wise.... How would you solve the problem with engine #1?

 

The problem is it's not 2 engines, it's a load of sails, which are visible, and how everyone knows ships work, and a new engine that's below decks doing all the work 24/7.

 

And the captain is 100 years old and only knows about sails, after all he grew up on a ship making sure the sails were in tip top shape at all times. Everyone likes to look at the sails, aren't they nice.

 

Now everyone's gone ashore, taken their sails with them, yet weirdly the ship is still crossing oceans, it's solar powered now.

[stevejp]

The problem is it's not 2 engines, it's a load of sails, which are visible, and how everyone knows ships work, and a new engine that's below decks doing all the work 24/7.

 

And the captain is 100 years old and only knows about sails, after all he grew up on a ship making sure the sails were in tip top shape at all times. Everyone likes to look at the sails, aren't they nice.

 

Now everyone's gone ashore, taken their sails with them, yet weirdly the ship is still crossing oceans, it's solar powered now.

 

The only thing wrong with your analogy, is that the sails still work perfectly well when the engines break down - which is the argument of many of the older generation of teachers. I use tech every day in my lessons, but would be absolutely ashamed of myself if I couldn’t teach a lesson without it.

[mavhc]

Just more slowly, and only in limited conditions

[stevejp]

Just more slowly, and only in limited conditions

 

Not disputing that, but the ship is still moving - ie, the kids are still being taught.