Dos_Box Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Sort of a mini-rant here, but why is it that VR, which IMO should be one of the next big leaps in gaming, taking so long to actually happen en-mass? It's been years now since the first PC devices were launched (Oculous for example) and the long awaited Microsoft partners mixed reality headsets which can do VR (albeit with restrictions) - https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4053622/windows-10-play-steamvr-games-in-windows-mixed-reality - hit the market late last year to not much fanfare. Given the usual pace of technological advancement when it comes to gaming and computing matters it does seem that this particular area is on a go-slow. Is this because that the computers required to run them from need to be quite high end, or that they can't get the price down to a level consumers would find easier to make the leap with? It's all a bit frustrating and I just wish they'd get a move on!
3s-gtech Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 The hardware to run them is now insanely expensive, unless you go for PSVR and the compromises it brings at that price point. PC parts prices have been elevated for so long it's actually damaging the PC gaming scene IMO. The price of the headsets has come to be more sane, but to run them on modern stuff is not. I can buy a PSVR, a set of controllers and steering wheel, and a bunch of VR games for far less than a capable GPU currently costs. The fact that it's not that inclusive doesn't help. Many people can't use them without feeling sick, which knocks the uptake as some don't even bother to try. You look like a bit of a berk/nerd using it, and it's not exactly sociable if you're gaming with friends. There are plenty of excellent titles, but the platforms need stand-out titles to look forward to, with decent advertising. I can't remember seeing any adverts for any of these platforms, and that's what sells to the mainstream (and casual gamers). 1
Dos_Box Posted February 27, 2018 Author Posted February 27, 2018 It doesn't help that VR capable gfx card prices are through the roof due to mining demands, which may be a reason for the lack of consumer take up. The Verge ran this not long back - https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/30/16949550/bitcoin-graphics-cards-pc-prices-surge saying that for a 1070 you are paying 80% more than intended! Without the demand from gamers for VR headsets due to being unable to upgrade home PC's, headset prices are unlikely to fall. It may also have an unexpected side effect of pushing PC gamers onto consoles which are much cheaper than the cards they would like to have. It's all very frustrating.
3s-gtech Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Mining for currency is due to decline pretty rapidly, which will mean big sell-off of cards. Wouldn't ever buy an ex-mining card though, so would be very wary of any used ones. At that time, new card prices should crash but it may be too little, too late. At least this has helped to prop up AMDs RTG - Vega wasn't as good as it needed to be but its mining capabilities have still allowed it to sell well. The retailers have price-gouged horrendously, and that has been pretty galling. I'm hoping that the continual push for high res mobile screens, with ever improving refresh rates, will help to drive the standard of VR tech indirectly, with great economies of scale. 120Hz QHD screens would be a good fit!
sted Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 i think the biggest issue is there hasn't been a killer app bar star trek bridge crew and job simulator/rick and morty i struggle to see a game i really want (that wouldnt work as well in 2d) and even though my laptop can run a vive for 3 games im not buying one. the bar of entry is way too high even without gpus being the price they are now on a pc its still not something your average pc world special can run there are a lot of cables, the vive in particular needs space to use it properly and if i had one the only "free" space i have big enough is the garage and its cold in there and id have to move the car to use it. even the psvr isnt cheap by the time youve added a camera and move controllers and unless you get the revised version you need to unplug it if you have a hdr tv and its still a mass of cables - - - Updated - - - I'm hoping that the continual push for high res mobile screens, with ever improving refresh rates, will help to drive the standard of VR tech indirectly, with great economies of scale. 120Hz QHD screens would be a good fit! but then you need even more gpu power to run it
foofighterjim Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 It is the usual chicken and egg scenario. Game developers don't want to risk making a game that nobody has the hardware to run, people won't buy hardware there's a limited number of games for.
Dos_Box Posted February 27, 2018 Author Posted February 27, 2018 And headset prices won't come down unless they are selling them in volume. If it is chicken and egg, then it's KFC chickens! 1
LeMarchand Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Mainly cost, but also most people don't have the space. I personally worry about strapping a screen that close to my eyes for an extended period of time.
DeGrimmy Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 I was lucky enough to try Elite: Dangerous on both the Oculus DK2 and the HTC Vive pre-launch kit (I helped out on the booth at games conventions twice) and I enjoyed the ability to look around the cockpit and such, but those dev kits were quite low resolution compared to the eventual launch product, and it was difficult to see detail. I've not yet tried a Rift or Vive since they launched and they are probably better resolution, but it's my experience of the dev kits plus the prohibitive price that is stopping me from considering VR as an option.
ITGuyNW Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 No one can buy the graphics cards they need!
caffrey Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 I've been a rift owner since they came out, it's gathering dust now. All the games feel like tech demos and they all feel like they have been made using unreal engine 4 making them seem so similar. I've never had a single experience that's made me go wow and I was so looking forward to it So many wave shooters, it's not even funny
Garacesh Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 In short, I think it mostly stems from 3 causes that all add up. It costs too much There's barely any games Most people don't actually care It costing too much is a humongous barrier to entry. Not only does the Oculus Rift cost £400 (and the Vive around £650 last I checked), the price of GPU's are still sky-high because of the Cryptocurrency boom. The cost to actually build a VR-capable PC is huge right now, probably about 2K minimum (assuming you need to buy monitor/peripherals too). That's a lot of money for, let's be honest, not a lot. Which brings me to my second point of there being no games. There's some, yeah. Elite has VR which is cool. The guys behind Serious Sam gave the VR edition away for free on Steam. There's VRChat. There's Euro Truck Simulator. And then there's.. well, that's about it. To the average gamer who doesn't actively follow VR, VR just doesn't really offer them much. Which marries nicely in with my third point: Nobody cares. Which sounds harsh, because the technology is incredible and I think it's awesome that VR at home is a thing.. But it's still basically just a gimmick. A lot of houses don't have the room for a VR setup because houses are tiny and people own furniture. VR is passive-cool. The kind of cool where you go "Huh, neat." and then move on. Mass-adoption will require considerably more advancement of the tech itself, and a considerably lower dent in the wallet to get involved. And those two things are polar opposites for now.
Pottsey Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 In short, I think it mostly stems from 3 causes that all add up. It costs too much There's barely any games Most people don't actually care I would add 2 more on there. 4, Technology and screens are nowhere near good enough. 5, VR is fundamentally flawed with the vast majority of popular game styles either not working in VR or not benefiting. The game styles that work really well are to limited or not popular like cockpit style games. As much as I love racing games and flying spaceships they are hardly big sellers.
sted Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 5, VR is fundamentally flawed with the vast majority of popular game styles either not working in VR or not benefiting. The game styles that work really well are to limited or not popular like cockpit style games. As much as I love racing games and flying spaceships they are hardly big sellers. im not so sure about 5 breath of the wild for instance could be epic in vr if done right any racing game could be done, open world games in general though granted controls might be an issue but not i feel insurmountable, any fps should work and in theory any 3rd person game should be doable by just "moving the camera" and altering the interface. in think the issue is what does it add and in most cases the answer is wow factor (which wears off id imagine (ive not used vr in this current incarnation)) and cost. i almsot see it like 3d movies/tv in 95% of cases dosent add anything worthwhile but if used well really does add something but unlike 3dtv the cost is way too high
2ilent8cho Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 I believe the PSVR is doing well, i still use mine.
Pottsey Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 im not so sure about 5 breath of the wild for instance could be epic in vr if done right any racing game could be done, open world games in general though granted controls might be an issue but not i feel insurmountable, any fps should work and in theory any 3rd person game should be doable by just "moving the camera" and altering the interface. in think the issue is what does it add and in most cases the answer is wow factor (which wears off id imagine (ive not used vr in this current incarnation)) and cost. i almsot see it like 3d movies/tv in 95% of cases dosent add anything worthwhile but if used well really does add something but unlike 3dtv the cost is way too high FPS and 3rd person don’t really work due to the disconnect of movement to what you see. Either you end up with endless games where you never leave 1 room or you have to fall back to poor methods like teleport zone to zone which is a giant step backwards. Or you try and allow movement which just doesn’t work in VR. Every FPS game that allows you to leave a box room in VR is terrible, much worse than none VR. Basically you are limited to moving in the area your VR it setup in or you have to fall back to poor methods which are worse than playing none VR. That’s why VR is fundamentally flawed. I don’t see VR being anything but a niche product as it’s only really suitable for a very limited amount of things. Yes Racing games and spaceship games are amazing in VR. But that’s only enough to make VR a niche product and not enough to go mainstream. As for the interface you can only alter is so much and most VR games have to have the interfaced over simplified to work in VR and simplified interfaces tend to make games more boring and similar to each other. VR just has to many game breaking limitations to become a big thing. Some of them like the screens can be fixed in years to come. Others like the interface and movement problems cannot be fixed any time soon.
gch Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 Samsung's Gear VR is OK for the simple stuff - Minecraft and educational kids stuff, but the big names don't seem to be able to strike that balance of gameplay and function. Either it's showing off VR nicely or it's a good idea for a game, but not both. I've not been tempted to go with Oculus or HTC yet, but saying that, as anyone tried Tomb Raider VR through Steam?
gch Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 Hehe, best use yet. They don't even flinch....my kids would be fighting the nurse off.
flyinghaggis Posted April 5, 2018 Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) I actually ordered a Playstation VR headset today. The recent price drop and having experienced WipeOut: Omega Collection in VR is the main thing that sold it to me. Plus I've got Eve Valkyrie and Resident Evil 7 which are also supposed to be decent in VR. I'd agree with the comment at the moment that VR works best in cockpit style simulation games. Wipeout in particular is amazing! I've held off previously primarily because the technology isn't really there yet but for a couple of hundred pounds I feel more comfortable giving it a try as I figure I can always sell it down the line without taking a huge financial hit if I get bored or want to upgrade in future. Also, now that's it's been out for a while you can pick up most of the games pretty cheap second hand. That also discouraged me from getting into it sooner as whilst they were fun most launch games were literally glorified tech demos being sold for £50 a shot! One of my friends is a bit of a VR junkie and over the last 6 months has owned an HTC Vive, PS VR and a Dell Microsoft VR Headset. Strangely, despite the lower resolution, I actually think the PS headset looks just as good and it's undoubtedly the most comfortable especially if you wear glasses. Ideally I'd like to get a PC compatible headset eventually but I don't really feel any of the current crop can justify their price tags. If I'm being honest I'm just buying it for a bit of fun for now to get a taste of what's to come in future. As others have said the technology isn't quite there for 'proper' VR yet in terms of the headset resolution or the head/hand tracking IMO. Plus being tethered by a power/video cable makes walking about awkward and really breaks the immersion. I'm sure in a few years time there will be some truly stunning stuff out there though once they figure out ways to workaround these issues. Has anyone else jumped on the bandwagon recently? Edited April 5, 2018 by flyinghaggis
flyinghaggis Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 Sony's PS VR starter kit is in sale at Amazon for £200 at the moment. https://www.amazon.co.uk/PlayStation-9827054-Sony-VR/dp/B00I9WWBCQ/ 2
flyinghaggis Posted August 25, 2018 Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) Actually, don't buy the starter kit. Buy the Starter Kit bundle with the move controllers and Wipeout Omega collection for £240! Absolute Bargain (Though obviously don't go getting yourself into financial difficultly buying video game hardware but if you have the cash to spare and a PS4 I'd seriously recommend it.........) https://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/tv-dvd-audio/gaming/virtual-reality/sony-playstation-vr-starter-pack-move-wireless-motion-controllers-bundle-10178512-pdt.html In terms of other VR games I've played over the past 6 months I'd also recommend :- WipeOut Omega Collection Superhot VR Battlezone Skyrim VR Resident Evil Rec Room (Capture the Flag and Battle Royale modes are amazing) I'm really looking forward to Firewall: Zero Hour which is out next week. Hopefully it turns out good. Anyone else jumped into VR recently? Edited August 25, 2018 by flyinghaggis
Boooo Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 I used my vive a lot after purchase. But now? Not used the last 3 months ..
gch Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 I'm tempted for the sake of Elite Dangerous (late to the party...) but will only get 2nd hand and sell on as soon as the novelty wears off. If there's no new tech coming to market we will make do with what we have for now. Anyone else try ED in VR? What's the verdict?
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