The Word 'NO'

[GRitchie]

Scary, isn't it.

 

I want to ask your opinions and advise.

- How do you say the word no (when referring to support requests that may not be possible etc.)

- How do you get people to accept the word no

- How do you take the word no yourself

 

 

I personally find it very difficult to say "no", or "that's not possible". I always try and find a work around or help people out, but sometimes I get more than I bargained for.

As a NM I feel it's important that I should be able to say no and have people accept that, when people don't seem to...

[Steve21]

Depends what it is. But generally unless it's someone who we talk bluntly between (business manager good example of this) then it's phrasing difference.

 

"We aren't licensed for that, if you want a quote I'll get you one"

"Our system doesn't currently support XYZ however we have plans in Summer to extend..."

 

Steve

[witch]

A blanket "No" will never get you where you want to go.

If someone asks you to do something - then I am sure you tell them that you will look into it. When you have, and found that it isn't possible, you go back to the person, say "No" but then explain, hopefully in simple terms, why you cannot do as they ask and what their options might be.

As for getting them to accept it - if you have done your research, then that is it, you can just quietly say that you can do no more. Then, and it isn't easy I know, you just have to keep repeating yourself - or go up the chain if you have to.

As for taking the word "No" myself - if someone can explain at least a bit of their thinking then fine, but if it is just a "No" for the sake of it - I certainly don't take it well

[GRitchie]

I'm in complete agreement there. And I try and be diplomatic about my answers where possible. But staff (teaching in particular) don't ever seem to take it as an answer. Or at least, not in my experiences!

[elsiegee40]

It helps if you have children. After many years of learning to get the concept of the word 'no' over to your offspring, you learn not to blow a fuse while doing it.

[mavhc]

Just say: Yes, that will cost £10000 and take 6 months

[GRitchie]

I'm only 19 @elsiegee40 so I hope that won't happen for a while:p

[elsiegee40]

I'm only 19 @elsiegee40 so I hope that won't happen for a while:p

 

Just do what you're told by your elders and betters then, whippersnapper!

 

My son may be your age and about a foot taller than me, but he knows when he's beaten

[Steve21]

But staff (teaching in particular) don't ever seem to take it as an answer.

 

Again that depends what it's in relation to. If for example it's a new piece of software they want, offer to send their line manager (budget holder) the quote. If they still say they want it, copy them in and send the request. Then their budget holder can be the baddy and say no.

 

If it's "I want XYZ website unfiltered" and they refuse, offer to talk to Child Protection/eSafety etc about why they can't have it.

 

May sound like pushing responsibility away but majority of the time it's not you that's saying no overall

 

Steve

[GRitchie]

Haha! That's how I feel I'm looked on sometimes by members of staff though...(!)

 

"He's much younger than me, he's not telling me that I can't do this, even if he is in charge of the IT support dept"

[strawberry]

If the answer is no that's fine but its how you phrase it. Make sure you explain your reasoning behind why its a no and if possible offer solutions even if they are ridiculous. Also offer a way forward and suggest how no can be avoided or a similar conclusion reached.

 

Of course if your talking to the staff rep then don't butter it up , just say no.

[difinity]

Just do what you're told by your elders and betters then, whippersnapper!

 

My son may be your age and about a foot taller than me, but he knows when he's beaten

 

Nothing beats the "mum look" !!

[Edu-IT]

Why fluff things up? Sometimes 'No' is all that is needed. Depends on the circumstances I suppose.

[mthomas08]

Scary, isn't it.

 

I want to ask your opinions and advise.

- How do you say the word no (when referring to support requests that may not be possible etc.)

- How do you get people to accept the word no

- How do you take the word no yourself

 

1. I would say how it is, if it's not possible I would say why. Not everything is possible with IT (sorry it's not regardless of what some may say). If a Staff member asked right now and said I'd like a live feed put on my screen of the moons surface like a street cam... well if NASA don't have that I don't think we will either. If things costs money I will add those exact quotations or estimations. If it's something that is possible like going cloud based I will simply weigh up the PROs or CONs and add my own recommendation. I will state the time to switch over, man hours required and down time if any. At the end of the day we can only do what we physically can and although we hold all the keys we don't hold all the decision making.

 

2. Google it, get companies to confirm. Another good example would be home access to SIMs.Net (not talking about the App or SLG) 1 Year ago it wasn't possible what so ever due to the system setup we had without additional costs. I would double check with my LM if we can be granted additional funds for this, then that's an official SLT no. I would also add if it's something we will look in to usually it's a max 12 month wait for the big things. Like new ICT suites etc.

Just now I've had to say no to another loan laptop for a Student because we simply are low on stock and unless I can order more spares, there is nothing I can do.

 

3. Doesn't bother me, I move on. As a kid I never got what I wanted and had to work hard for anything and everything. There was no silver plate in my life.

 

Sometimes it's not about the no but instead it's how you say it. If you simply say NO because it's not the truth, you simply don't want to waste your breath this doesn't help them feel confident with your ability to say yes. If you tell them it's possible but (insert work load, costs etc) they understand it. Even if it is a no, just say why it's not possible.

[pete]

Scary, isn't it.

I want to ask your opinions and advise.

- How do you say the word no (when referring to support requests that may not be possible etc.)

- How do you get people to accept the word no

- How do you take the word no yourself

 

Not possible absolutely (this will never happen because I can't break causality)? "Sorry, that's just not possible due to X".

 

Not possible now because $thing_more_important exploded? "I'm working on $thingy and it'll take $estimate, send me an email so I don't forget and I'll look later."

 

Not possible without X (where X is time, budget, more input from requestee, jail sentence)? "In order to do this, I'll/you'll need X. Can you provide that?" (aka "Do you have a budget?")

 

Not possible and I can't tell you why? (confidential). "Sorry, but I can't tell you the reason (or I can only be vague). Talk to $person about it (so long as saying that doesn't give it away)."

 

Not my responsibility? "You'll need to ask Bob about that."

 

Generally speaking I know most of the staff well enough to adapt my response to them.

 

So long as there's a reason and the person understands (and owns) the consequences of "No", I still get paid.

Edited January 5, 2016 by pete

[DalekSec]

I'm only 19 @elsiegee40 so I hope that won't happen for a while:p

 

Only 19, you obviously haven't got out of the 'Leeds are the greatest' phase yet,

 

ROTHERHAM TILL I DIE!! Looking forward to beating you again Saturday

[GRitchie]

Only 19, you obviously haven't got out of the 'Leeds are the greatest' phase yet,

 

ROTHERHAM TILL I DIE!! Looking forward to beating you again Saturday

 

Sigh... I feel sorry for you. You're 1 point from the relegation zone :-/

How is it down there?

You're just a small town in Sheffield, small town in Sheffieeeeld!

 

 

Back on topic :-

[mikeprice]

I would say that some people will always assume that you are just being akward when you say NO - however politely you say it.

In my experience (and I am 55 so my ages helps) if I just keep being as friendly and polite as possible - but still being firm and saying why it can't be done then they eventually stop.

 

I would suggest that you keep a log of the requests that you refuse and go through them with your line manager regularly - especially if it is getting to be a problem. this will ensure that

a) you are refusing the right requests

b) he/she knows what is happening and who is being a pain for no reason - this will protect you if they complain that you are obstructive - even if you never get to know it happened ( this happened to me in a previous job - a formal complaint was raised against me that was dismissed immediately due to me keeping the deputy head informed - I only found out about it years later!)

 

Anyway - good luck - keep up the good work

[bossman]

In answer to your questions:

 

1. How do you say the word no (when referring to support requests that may not be possible etc.)

If the request is for something that is not supported by your system and will cost then I always refer them to my line manager, if they have an ounce of common sense they will do all the work for you in saying "No" to the respective requester!

 

2. How do you get people to accept the word no

I always refer them to my line manager, if they have an ounce of common sense they will do all the work for you in saying "No" to the respective requester!

 

3. How do you take the word no yourself

You can only ask for what you require to do the job you are employed to do, if the answer to your request is "No" then the answer is "No" and if it is good enough for other members of staff then it is good enough for me! or You hehe!

 

It is all about setting precedent's, if a member of staff has requested something which, you or any other member of staff hasn't, then by granting that member of staff their request they have set a precedent and thus this constitutes the "Argument" about the action by example.

 

If a member of staff has a request which is defined by the school policies as not allowed, then tell them so, stating "It is school policy" blah! blah! de blah!

Remember your line manager also by stating "It is school policy but if you want to take it to my line manager then that is fine by me"

 

I have just had an instance where as one of our school policies decrees "Supply staff are not given access to e-mails" one of our HOD's has come to me asking for a supply teacher to be given access to e-mails, my answer was "Unfortunately due to one of our many school policies it will not be possible to grant this request" I then followed up with "If you would like to take it to my line manager I am sure he will help you with this matter" knowing full well he will quote exactly the same,

 

Its not my network its the schools! whatever they want they have to pay for it in either man hours or money or both!

If the system you have will not support whatever it is that they require to further enhance their teaching practise then once again it is turned to your line manager, this is what your line manager gets paid to do as part of his/her duties.

 

If in doubt always involve your line manager then they can make an informed decision based on your assessments and criteria and also the staff members.

 

So in essence I don't have any problems saying or accepting "No", I do what I am asked to do by my line manager and if what he asks is not feasible due to systems or finance then I point this out for them to make the decision, Simple!

[hardtailstar]

Only 19, you obviously haven't got out of the 'Leeds are the greatest' phase yet,

 

ROTHERHAM TILL I DIE!! Looking forward to beating you again Saturday

 

off topic....

 

2-1

 

You were unlucky, still three points for us

 

back on topic

 

Don't say no out right, explain reasons and if it just needs a bit of research let them know.

 

If its possible after research give them options, people will always respond better if you give them options to choose and may feel like it was their idea.

[TechMonkey]

Try not to to say it, would be my advice. Not that I always say yes but re-frame the response to be positive or at least less negative. That way if there ever is an instance when you have to put your foot down it has more impact and they know you mean it. pete's response are the kind I would be trying for.

[mrnoisy]

I make a point of starting with a No and working up from there, teachers are like spoilt children it brightens my day seeing their little faces when someone says no to them [emoji23]

[dapaulio]

I too find it difficult to say no. it is programmed inside us to help out as much as possible but having said that I have had to use the word no when it involves braking the law. you would be surprised of how many times a week I am asked to rip a youtube, bbc iplayer video.

 

When you are held responsible for the advice you give you find saying no relatively easy, that is if you know yourself and understand the reason you are saying no

[GrumbleDook]

In situations like this I like to remind people that there are standards published by the elders of the Tinterwebz and that is where I get my advice from.

 

RFC 1925 covers most of it pretty well, but I tend to quote Fundamental Truth no 3

With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

 

I tend to phrase it like this.

 

Oh, afternoon my friend. You have a few queries? Of course, come in and pull up a chair.

 

Yes, they are interesting ideas for what you need.

 

Well, I always like to quote one of the internet standards in situations like this ... and that is that with sufficient thrust Pigs will actually fly. My problem is that in this case, the thrust involves a lot of money we don't have, kit we don't have, time we don't have and expertise we don't have. Even if I could say that the reason you want to do X is a darned good one, I am hampered from word go with regards to doing something about it. If you can support me on getting rid of some of those barriers then we can see what we can do. Now, let's list what those barriers are.

 

Ah, this one is tricky because we need some legal advice about how to get the law changed to allow us to copy those files. And that one also needs legal advice as we are using sensitive, personal data and the ICO will want to fine us if we do it. I know the present Govt are trying to change the law to get rid of some of those powers, so we could look to fund a lobbying group ... but using school funds for that might not go down well in the news.

 

Ah, this one is easier ... we can speak with the science techs about some of these materials as we would need to work out whether super-cooling that AMD Athlon in the corner might get enough oomph out of it to run Windows 10.

 

This one is easy too. To change over to product Y we need to ditch product X first. If you can speak to the Head and then Business Manager about how we get out of the 3 year contract we signed 4 months ago then we could be able to get something sorted on that.

 

I think the next bit is going to be hard ... I need to have 8 more techies and we will all need a chunk of training, or we will have to outsource to a company that specialises in this area. It could mean that they take over running support for everything, which could make things easier. It could be more expensive, and then there is legal stuff for TUPE of existing staff ... or redundancies and the associated payouts. We will need good legal and HR advice there.

 

What? No, I am not taking the ... I am sorry, you will have to explain what you mean by that word. Actually, it is interesting that you should say idiot, as some people confuse idiots, savants and genius. Actually, I can't stick the laptop there, not only would it be too dark to then use it I am sure it would invalidate the warranty. No, don't go, we have some more barriers to identify yet ... come back ... we were making such progress ... I think we might even get world peace out of this!

 

Ok, perhaps I phrase it that way in my head ...

[GrumbleDook]

On a serious note, saying no is hard. Identifying why things have barriers and what is needed to overcome them is time consuming and you will find that the language you may use for it differs to that used by teaching staff or manglement.

 

Identifying the effort needed to do something helps school leaders to decide if the investment is worth it ... Leadership will work with you on that ... Manglement won't.

 

Sometimes it is about explaining priorities to others as well. No-one knows your job list as good as you, but having a general plan to show others the impact of their requests can be handy.

 

Evidence about why you are making certain decisions the way you are is also essential. It may be due to the Law, it may be due to technical solutions, it may be simply down to the laws of Physics! Get the evidence though, and be patient.