[sims] School Splitting new SIMs required

[TraineeGeek]

Hi,

 

 

Since August 2013 we have been 1 school (1 school number) with 2 sites (4 miles apart) but because the results of one of the sites was adversely affecting the other, the schools are splitting and we've been given a DFE number for the newer site.

We are now wondering what to do about SIMs:-

1) Can we run two school from one SIMs?

2) If not, how do we create another instance of SIMs?

3) How do we transfer existing BGA pupils to the new SIMs?

 

At the newer school we have a DELL/VMWare virtual environment with our current SIMs server virtualized and more than enough resources for a second MS SQL server. A 100Mb/s P2P will remain between the 2 schools.

 

Has anyone been through this kind of restructuring?

 

Many thanks

[howartp]

Are you completely splitting into two schools with two Heads, two SLTs etc... or are you one set of managements running two schools?

 

I don't now the SIMS/Capita answer, just asking prompting questions to help others who might know the answer.

 

Peter

[bobsmith]

You are in effect now going to be two seperate schools, but with a shared ICT infrastructure?

 

I think you'll run into the license issue - 1 school = 1 sims licence.

[TraineeGeek]

The same SLT will remain across both sites.

 

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Capita have just told me the same thing. Bob

[Gibson335]

If the two schools are to have separate DFE numbers then I think they are regarded as separated regards MIS as well. However, if the same number is used then you should be able to have a single instance.

[Banjo]

You might get away with restoring your exisitng SIMS DB onto the new server, applying the patch to change the school name DfE number, then making all the students not on that site leavers and remove the staff records that are not shared across the new 'federation?

 

Otherwise it's a massive job to start from scratch with a blank SIMS database if this has to ready for Sept?

[matt40k]

I think @bobsmith is right, I think they'll want you to buy a new license. Just remember, if they do, you have to (re) procurement a MIS system correctly, you can't just order another SIMS license. I would do it off the government framework - Information Management and Learning Services | Crown Commercial Service - its worth a look at the market even if you do end up keeping SIMS. If you do select SIMS, I think @Banjo idea would be the way forward, tho I suspect it'll cause some problems later down the line (can't think what exactly).

[PhilNeal]

Schools are not under obligation to go to a framework - the purchase price is well below the limits!

[matt40k]

Schools are not under obligation to go to a framework - the purchase price is well below the limits!

 

I have yet to see any procurement guidance that says you don't have to do due diligence for a many thousand pound purchase, especially for such as critical system. The specific framework point was more of a recommendation, but that said, from a external auditing point of view, I would be raising the question why you wouldn't be buying of a government framework for a MIS when your buying a MIS system that is required to meet government requirements that they have add layers of protection? If your answer is "its cheaper", I would be asking (from the point of view of the external auditors), why is it cheaper and what sacrifices has it become cheaper? I would assume at the cost of the layers of protection that the government has added in. Very odd for a MIS supplier to saying to avoid a framework, especially when they are on it already... unless I missed the marketing ads for Capita Legal Services

[jdoldridge]

We had this with our studio school. We had to purchase a second sims licence etc. and it has been a PITA to manage. The biggest issue was when staff needed to be in both sims instances at the same time. We ended up using remote app for the second sims instance to allow for this

[matt40k]

The biggest issue was when staff needed to be in both sims instances at the same time.

 

You just need to add /MULTIINSTANCE to the end of the SIMS shortcut. Sorry it might be too late, but it might help someone else who stumbles across this post.

[Banjo]

I think @bobsmith is right, I think they'll want you to buy a new license. Just remember, if they do, you have to (re) procurement a MIS system correctly, you can't just order another SIMS license. I would do it off the government framework - Information Management and Learning Services | Crown Commercial Service - its worth a look at the market even if you do end up keeping SIMS. If you do select SIMS, I think @Banjo idea would be the way forward, tho I suspect it'll cause some problems later down the line (can't think what exactly).

 

Ideology meets practicality I'm afraid. With key staff shared across both sites you aren’t going to want two run two different systems. If the satellite site keeps SIMS they can still use the existing 2015/16 TT for next year, and the timetabler can manage and administrate both sites.

 

In terms of costs – if the schools are happy with SIMS, then the total cost of change to a new system, even if it’s slightly cheaper per year to licence, may take 10+ years to recoup. Money doesn’t tend to be the predominant factor in why schools would want to change their MIS, but can act as barrier in schools adopting a new technology.

[matt40k]

Thing is, you never know, I've sat in meetings where managers have said it'll take months to do it, only for it to actually take 30 mins. You don't know how bad it'll be until you've actually done a bit of digging. It's pointless to just assume something without doing a bit of research first. It takes what a few hours to phone a few suppliers, maybe another few hours to look at each suppliers product, you never know, it might actually be easier then what you got. Staff might find it easier, you don't know. You shouldn't put up barriers of fear. I'm not saying ditch SIMS, just check it is still the best product for your school if you have to re-buy the license. If nothing else, it pushes Capita to give you a better price as they know they don't have you locked in.

[CAM]

You might get away with restoring your exisitng SIMS DB onto the new server, applying the patch to change the school name DfE number, then making all the students not on that site leavers and remove the staff records that are not shared across the new 'federation?

 

Otherwise it's a massive job to start from scratch with a blank SIMS database if this has to ready for Sept?

 

You might have to delete the students from the previous school. If you make them leavers your census will report that the students had been on roll at the new school when they have never passed through your gates. Any students who have lessons in both sites need to be dual registered. Regarding staff, that could make your School Workforce Census interesting!

 

Personally I'd start fresh and admit students normally using CTF files after making them leavers at the old school. It's a pain but you won't have ghosts darting around your system.

[bobsmith]

Personally I'd start fresh and admit students normally using CTF files after making them leavers at the old school. It's a pain but you won't have ghosts darting around your system.

 

Just to confirm, the original school is keeping it's DfE number, and the other site is getting a new one?

 

In which case students will be "moving" to the other school FROM the original - using the method CAM has mentioned above.

 

I feel this isn't something you can mess around with too much, it's important legal stuff.

[Scott_L]

Whilst I can’t help on the technical aspects of running multiple SIMs instances on one network, this might be an ideal opportunity to review your current MIS solution and ask if it actually positively contributes to school improvement and achieving your objectives? We all work in education for one reason, to develop and engage learners for their future. The answer might be yes, but this may also be because it’s all you know.

 

There are many other MIS suppliers out there and it is worth checking out what they can do for your establishment. Rather than making this about having an MIS over two sites and being able to manage it from one central location, it is worth considering how the MIS can improve the results of both sites by engaging the learners/parents in their own education.

 

An interesting article was recently written by Stephen Heppell “This is not scary, this is exciting” , hopefully most of you know who Stephen is, it may be worth the read if you’re considering your options, not only is data and information discussed, it goes on to talk about the environment the learner is in and how this has an effect on performance. I’d be interesting to know what you think.

 

A slightly older but still relevant independent piece of research was conducted by Graham Reed and is linked here: What is the MIS Challenge? | The Eduware Network

 

Scott

[TraineeGeek]

yes, that's correct, the newer school is getting the new DfE number.

[GREED]

 

A slightly older but still relevant independent piece of research was conducted by Graham Reed and is linked here: What is the MIS Challenge? | The Eduware Network

 

Scott

 

Wow, mentioned alongside Mr Heppell, honoured!

 

The research is still pretty valid even if you want to see who is our there and do your own research based on that. There is also an example, blank set of tender/procurement style questions which might help you get off the ground.