Programming at GCSE - poll

[BJG]

This is kind of connected with the "Oftsted/ICT Poor" thread. The IT teaching staff were in a huddle this morning discussing this and wondering what programming language to teach. Would be interested to know what you people do...? I've included a few choices from the Tiobe index, but maybe that's not relevant here...?

[featured_spectre]

Perl or bash

[pete]

Officially: Scratch / Smalltalk (yes, really).

 

Unofficially: whatever the kid's interested in at a lunchtime club. But that's a very unofficial setup. You don't talk about unofficial lunchtine club because you might attract lackwits. Kids with aptitude find out about it on the grapevine.

 

Also, where's Perl?

[Hightower]

Our staff teach the kids how to program in Dreamweaver, FrontPage, and Medi8tor here. What? They are programming languages! STFU, they ARE programming languages! They aren't? Well that's not what the staff have told me.

[3s-gtech]

We don't, and I wouldn't class PHP as a programming language - but VB is a good start, certainly. I'm looking into rolling up the tools to deploy Visual Studio for students at the moment.

[webman]

I wouldn't class PHP as a programming language

 

Why not?

[Hightower]

I wouldn't class PHP as a programming language

 

Can't see why not?

[CyberNerd]

We don't, and I wouldn't class PHP as a programming language - but VB is a good start, certainly. I'm looking into rolling up the tools to deploy Visual Studio for students at the moment.

 

huh. PHP is way more useful than VB in the real world.

Think of how many people who use VB and move onto PHP (lots) compared to people to move from PHP to VB.

[broc]

What seems to be lacking in schools when teaching programming is any real focus on programming methodology & system design. The choice of language is largely irrelevant once you have mastered these skills, although you have to be able to select the appropriate language for the task in hand. Programming languages come & go as technology & fashion move forward, but the basics don't change.

[apeo]

Dont teach any programming here and with current staff we wont be anytime soon.

 

Isnt it strange that early on GCSE in IT was learning programming (I could be wrong) but now its how to be a user.

[3s-gtech]

That was a fudge. I guess it's because it's a server side scripting language - I see programming as creating something, compiling it, client side. Obviously PHP should be taught - but we seem to do so much with web development already that it almost seems like missing a trick there - PHP could be properly integrated into web development; with programming lessons embracing another language.

[webman]

That was a fudge. I guess it's because it's a server side scripting language - I see programming as creating something, compiling it, client side. Obviously PHP should be taught - but we seem to do so much with web development already that it almost seems like missing a trick there - PHP could be properly integrated into web development; with programming lessons embracing another language.

 

PHP is easy to learn, and can demonstrate both basic and more advanced 'programming' concepts (including objects), while being useful as well. Not that other languages can't do that - they can - but PHP shouldn't be discounted just because it's classed primarily as a 'scripting' language.

 

I agree with broc and he makes a very valid point. I also believe that students will enjoy it more if it's relevant and useful at the time.

[CyberNerd]

That was a fudge. I guess it's because it's a server side scripting language - I see programming as creating something, compiling it, client side. Obviously PHP should be taught - but we seem to do so much with web development already that it almost seems like missing a trick there - PHP could be properly integrated into web development; with programming lessons embracing another language.

 

php doesn't need to be server side, or even solely for web devm - that's just its widest use. You can create traditional gui application with QT and php if you really wanted to.

[webman]

You can create traditional gui application with QT and php if you really wanted to.

 

As well as PHP-GTK and WinBinder for Windows.

[Vortex566]

Everyone should be taught Ruby and then Ruby on Rails.

[mavhc]

If you're not writing web apps there's not much point programming these days. If I were picking something I'd start with Python, then add Django.

 

Got some people using Scratch here, they've made some playable games. What people should do is advanced logo.

[philwaud]

Can I ask, what are the options?

 

I dont mean what languages, I mean, what GCSEs give the oppurtunity to teach any kind of programing?

 

Phil

[mrbios]

As of next year our schools introducing computing as a seperate aspect to ICT and starting it straight from year 7s. Currently it's only being taught to 6th formers who choose the computing option.

 

This is the list of programs that will be in use for year 7 - 10:

Scratch

Small Basic

Kodu

Possibly but not certain on greenfoot as well

 

Year 10+11s and 6th formers will be introduced to Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate focusing mainly on visual basic but allowing the brighter ones to do projects in C++ or C#

 

Luckily the head of ICT here is well in to the whole programming aspect of IT, it's what he used to do in a previous job etc and he's a very passionate teacher (probably the only truly GOOD teacher i've ever seen). He's been running a computing course for the past 2-3 years here now for 6th formers and 2 of our students have gone straight from here in to working for a company called Renishaw who now work with us towards apprenticeships, and it's generally the best of his students that comes to help us out.

[irsprint84]

This is kind of connected with the "Oftsted/ICT Poor" thread. The IT teaching staff were in a huddle this morning discussing this and wondering what programming language to teach. Would be interested to know what you people do...? I've included a few choices from the Tiobe index, but maybe that's not relevant here...?

 

vb.net express, simple and free for students!

[CAM]

Not sure what they do now but our old head of IT had them coding game in some C# derived language. They had a compiler with some pre-made functions the kids could use to make development easier.

[Sylv3r]

We do a bit of Visual Basic with selected students in an extra curricular club. Not something we run for all KS4 students but certainly something we are starting to look at and possibly A Level.

[Andie]

What seems to be lacking in schools when teaching programming is any real focus on programming methodology & system design. The choice of language is largely irrelevant once you have mastered these skills, although you have to be able to select the appropriate language for the task in hand. Programming languages come & go as technology & fashion move forward, but the basics don't change.

 

I agree. I started with computers in the days of DOS commands, and even BBC Basic. Taught myself the rudiments of scripting and Basic programming. It still really helps to know command syntax and structure and processes. Even if you don't fully know the language, you can usually have a stab at something when you understand the principles.

[tom_newton]

Much as I love Perl, it is not a great teaching language, as the syntax is too wooly. Python, possibly. VB discourages thinking and being able to build "something from nothing". PHP... again, a bit wooly. Other than the "indenty oddness" of Python... i'd go for it every time.

[CyberNerd]

Much as I love Perl, it is not a great teaching language, as the syntax is too wooly. Python, possibly. VB discourages thinking and being able to build "something from nothing". PHP... again, a bit wooly. Other than the "indenty oddness" of Python... i'd go for it every time.

 

The 'indentity oddness' of python works to its advantage as a teaching language. The fact that python enforces a strict structure actually teaches how to write readable code. I'm sure you'll appreciate that badly indented Perl can be illegible.

Edited December 15, 2011 by CyberNerd

[tom_newton]

The 'indentity oddness' of python works to its advantage as a teaching language. The fact that python enforces a strict structure actually teaches how to write readable code. I'm sure you'll appreciate that badly indented Perl can be illegible sometimes.

 

Only sometimes?

You're right, altholugh I find people who learn python sometimes struggle when they first get lumbered with {}, and moving between text editors can be a pain (soft/hard tabs for example) still, its a price worth paying for well indented code?