Support Staff or Non-Teaching?

[bossman]

Midget: Sir hehe! you old bugger.

 

Maybe to you this is not much but how are we as professionals supposed to get the recognition we so deserve, not by letting an institutionalised bunch of half wits (not all i may add) who think they are so much better than us descriminate against us by using derogatary terms when addressing us to both staff and pupils.

[Ravening_Wolf]

I'll be honest, I don't care about the last name thing, and will introduce my self by my full name and if they call me my first name then so be it, I don't _really_ care as I'm used to first name terms in all of my previous jobs.

 

 

and i hate "sir" it makes me feel old.

 

I'm of the old school who believe that something as simple as using "Sir" or "Mr Smith" in front of students helps engender the beginnings of respect in students. Over-familiarity and contempt are not very distant in a classroom when using first names and the kids pick up on it very quickly.

[ITWombat]

@GrumbleDook

How did the teachers take to having a non-teacher as an assistant head?

One less place at the trough. They must have loved that

[Heebeejeebee]

When we re-organised our pastoral system a while back and made "non teachers" head of house effectively, one of our teachers had the nerve to say to governors that parents don't want to talk to monkeys, they want to see a real person.

 

I think they got a real bollocking but that's the type of level some staff think we're on.

 

Most are respectful but you get the odd pillock.

 

HBJB

[GrumbleDook]

@ITWombat

Some like it, some dont ... some see what I do and where I make a difference, some don't. Pretty much all are professional enough so that irregardless of whether they like the idea they get on with things and follow any strategies I am involved in. Part of the difference might be that I try to make sure that all staff are aware that the education of students is my primary foucs ... and that I am always prepared to withdraw technology when it is not appropriate ... I also try to ensure that staff are happy with technology rather than feeling pressured to use the latest gimmick.

 

Then again ... staff are aware that I still have an inferiority complex.

 

 

 

 

I know that everyone is inferior to me!

[ITWombat]

@ITWombat

Some like it, some dont ... some see what I do and where I make a difference, some don't. Pretty much all are professional enough so that irregardless of whether they like the idea they get on with things

 

I don't expect many people want to mess with a former soldier either

[PageZ]

An interesting thread this one....

I personally have an innate distrust of titles and have found over the years that all smt's attached various strings to various titles - the idea of 'non teaching' is no bad thing in my eyes. Let me qualify this - some years ago I remember seeing a 'new ' pay scale for a 'non - qualified teacher'. I presume that the advertising drive at the time was pushing those captains of industry who were sick of their highly paid, expense account, diners club card jobs would throw it all in and come and be a 'non qualified teacher' for 16 grand a year. As I recall - they weren't beating the doors down. However there seems to have been a push to get 'cheap teachers' in one form or another ever since. One look at the new style TA's and cover assistants should ring alarm bells with people as they are getting more and more responsibility put their way - but are the financial rewards there?

So thats another view for you - if you do teach and take groups then fine - but make sure that it is recognised in your contract and you are paid for it. If you are described as 'non teaching' then at least you are safe from being landed with covering 30 bored Y11 kids on Friday afternoon.....

 

Oh and yes - I am a qualified teacher.

Cheers

PageZ

[bossman]

PageZ:

I have been lumbered with 30+ kids from time to time and like the teachers i put on a DVD or let them have freetime to go on the one game site i allow them access to and they love it. Much better than the lesson that will have been prepared for them to do as it will be something made up just to fill the time.

 

Webman and I also help teach the kids in ICT when the teachers don't know what they are talking about. I love it and it feels great when the students thank you for showing them how to do something the teacher cannot.

 

I would say it would be great to be landed with 30 students on a friday afternoon than being landed with a request last thing on a friday which has to be finished before you can go home at least the teachers get to go home at 3.30 on a friday and have 13 weeks holidays a year instead of 22 days.

[sidewinder]

My payslip doesnt say anything about job title, for all it shows I could be a teacher. Oh, until you look at the net pay

 

Non teaching really doesnt bother me, thats what we are and in my school no-one uses it in a derogatory way. We have nearly 90 'non teaching' staff so it shows they are important

 

I even use it myself in AD and stuff - teachers, students, non teaching

 

To me thats the 3 important groups in a school. Obviously non teaching staff includes many, many diverse job roles, but they're all important. Yes IT is one of most important but you could also argue the caretakers are just as important in the running of the school

 

Our team is always referred to as the IT Team, not just part of non teaching, its only for simplicity we're placed in there

[PageZ]

PageZ:

I have been lumbered with 30+ kids from time to time and like the teachers i put on a DVD or let them have freetime to go on the one game site i allow them access to and they love it. Much better than the lesson that will have been prepared for them to do as it will be something made up just to fill the time.

 

My point is this - if you teach kids, you should be paid accordingly. I personally think that the new TA system is grooming cheap teachers. I also think that letting 30 kids loose on the 1 game site you allow (I hope its mine....) is not the same as being put down to cover 30 disgruntled year 11s in German with no computers available and work that you don't understand set for them. If you enjoy the teaching part - thats fine - do it, be timetabled for it and get paid for it properly.

Oh and the 13 weeks a year business - I am not even going to start on that one or mention, reports, parents evenings, meetings, open days, cross phase evenings, marking, moderating, writing new modules of work, revision clubs, booster classes, piggin Ofsted, etc etc....

Personally I think its swings and roundabouts - but Im sure you would probably disagree.

 

Cheers

PageZ

[Sylv3r]

We are known as Support Staff here and as Webman has said the payslip refers to Non-Teaching but within the LA they is also departments such as Non-Teaching salaries etc.

 

The deputy head here in charge of Support Staff wanted to change the term Support Staff within school to 'Associate Staff' the majority of support staff felt that this term was even worse than Support Staff and it was agreed that we would remain as Support Staff. Her argument from the outset was to show the whole school we were as one - but having groups within Teaching Staff and Associate Staff I am not sure how that was going to work any different to present.

 

We have recently carried out an external anonymous survey with all support staff invited to fill in their responses. I feel a lot of comments put down were wide of the mark from my point of view being the Network Manager but comments such as

 

"Need to be shown more respect"

 

"Shouldn't be treat like a child"

 

"Regularly ignored by Teachers"

 

They were others but I cant remeber them exactly but these are extremely worrying - the survey was completed by Admin, Cleaners, Technicians SLA's etc but surely the likes of the above comments if it is to be a one school culture should not be evident.

[bossman]

Hey guess what? Rang CC and complained in the right ear and have been told that next month i will be as will be others down as "Support Staff" it's a move in the right direction.

 

The down side is the job evaluation is not going to be to everybodies liking as the CC again have made a complete hash of things so i am told. Again it is the jobs for the boys brigade that have made the decisions and we will probably be lumbered with the lab technician title as these guys hav'nt got a clue becuase they are a mixture of ex headteachers and teachers who think they know what is best for everybody in education.

[webman]

Nice one Adrian! +1 for support staff

[john]

My chitty says IT Dept on it Shows that im a good dude, but I like to call us Admin Staff but under this brolly there is Bursar, Estates Manager, Cleaning Manager etc

[bossman]

john: just another few years and our CC might know what an IT dept is and what it does hehe!

[PageZ]

The down side is the job evaluation is not going to be to everybodies liking as the CC again have made a complete hash of things so i am told.

 

As I said - titles in education come with strings attached. Usually, they use a change in title to squeeze more out of people for the same money or to change your job so you have to work longer or get paid less. Careful.....

 

Cheers

PageZ

[gwendes]

@bossman - I still don't understand how there is a relationship between what it says on your wageslip and how you are addressed by teachers and students. No one else ('cept gf and IFA) sees my wageslip so you may feel like you are fighting your corner but really the only difference you are making is to the wording on some finance spreadsheet at the council offices.

 

@Ravening_Wolf - I couldn't disagree more. Respect doesn't come from the word you shout across the classroom to get a teachers attention. The majorit of staff and students refer to me as 'Giles' - I think this holds far more respect. It is very easy to hide behind 'Sir' or 'Miss' and very difficult if you are using the member of staff's real name - where the comtempt is coming from, from a name, I'm really not sure. What exactly do the kids 'pick up on very quickly.'? Your name? When you choose to be referred to by your name? God forbid. As far as I am concerned this is on a par with putting up a sign that says 'Do not look at this sign'

 

The is also nothing wrong with being referred to as a techie or technician. It isn't derogatory at all. You will create a bigger barrier between teaching and non-teaching staff if you have make a problem out of something so meaningless. In my experience headteachers are called 'Mr..', 'Sir' or 'Mrs..' and they are certainly not likely to be offended if they are not recognised - in a greeting - for their promotion to [Head]teacher

[Ravening_Wolf]

@gwendes - The problem is not the choice of name or title as form of address in the classroom, it is the inconsistency of staff when doing so. Teaching staff would never address each other by christian name in the classroom but the same people seem to think that it is ok to address me as such. Such inconsistncy shows up to the students here and they can see the clearly demarcated border between support staff and teaching staff which exists at my establishment.

[EeEk]

What it says on my payslip?? I have no idea other than the numbers are not high enough

 

What the kids/staff call me is of little importance to me..staff and kids call me techie, technician, Eric, Mr, Sir and I sure a lot more behind my back. I call the kids monsters (jokingly) , if I know their name then I use it, Oi you, but I don’t call them Mr, Miss etc so don’t expect it back.

 

Talking directly to teachers its first names, all of them even the head. Telling the kids to see a teacher is Mr X Mrs X or they wouldn’t know who I was talking about.

 

I do think a lot of what’s been described in this thread is of "support staffs" own making. I see it here all the time, support staff are more terrified of the head than the kids are. It’s like the peasant and the king of yesteryear. I don’t think forcing kids into the Mr, Mrs way does much to dispel that either, its just a power trip!!

 

At the end of the day were all equal, all just people, and I treat them all the same.

[sqdge]

I am not expected to go to the teacher's meetings, nor am I expected to go to Support Staff meetings. Also, I was told the other day that I didn't have to go to Non-Teaching Staff meetings either. So, now I just have meetings by myself...it's enough to give a man a complex.

[mattx]

I am not expected to go to the teacher's meetings, nor am I expected to go to Support Staff meetings. Also, I was told the other day that I didn't have to go to Non-Teaching Staff meetings either. So, now I just have meetings by myself...it's enough to give a man a complex.

 

I tell all the teachers I don't do meetings. Something that would go in my room 101....

I've been called ' Non Academic staff ' before... I laughed, I think there is only a handful of staff at my school who know my qualifications.

The kids in the Nursery think I am a magic man !!

I tend to steer clear of school politics but do enjoy a good gossip with some of the lady teachers who are always willing to make my stay in the staff room fun with tea and cakes.....

[sqdge]

I tend to steer clear of school politics but do enjoy a good gossip with some of the lady teachers who are always willing to make my stay in the staff room fun with tea and cakes.....

 

The school staff room IS currently my office, which means the tea, cakes, and gossip are now part of my daily routine!

 

Personally, I feel "Non Academic" is quite an insult.

[gwendes]

At the end of the day were all equal, all just people, and I treat them all the same.

 

Spot on. Does anyone really think that respect is garnered from the way you address somebody? It clearly isn't. All we are doing by keeping up this traditional 'Mr' or 'Sir' business is to teach kids that you treat one person in one way and another in another. The really excellent private schools, the ones at the top of every league, use first names only...

 

State schools will catch up and it will be a good day when they do. Also, I won't have to remember two names for every member of staff...

 

Personally, I feel "Non Academic" is quite an insult.

 

I suppose it depends how academic you are. I wouldn't be insulted but I could see how that might offend. 'Non-teaching' however... well... read my other posts...

[sqdge]

State schools will catch up and it will be a good day when they do. Also, I won't have to remember two names for every member of staff...

 

I know of a couple of state schools where the teachers, and other members of staff, are addressed by their first name.

 

That isn't the case at my school - every adult is addressed as Mr., Mrs., Miss., or Ms. with one exception: me. For some reason I am referred to by my first name. Even my technician is addressed by her surname, but clearly I don't have the precense to warrent such a salutation.

 

Still, I can think of worse things they could be calling me.

[webman]

sqdge: Gently remind them of this by referring to them by their first name - they may soon get the message.