Wireless Network - Which Vendor?

[chrisgoodrich]

Hi,

 

We currently have a Netgear Managed Wireless solution in our school which is not fit for purpose. Currently when 30 laptops are in use in one classroom in can take upto 15 or 20 minutes for them to login with a 3MB mandatory profile.

 

We are looking into alternative systems mainly Meru, Xirrus, Ruckus and Trapeze. What are your experiences with these products like? Will they manage high density quick enough? What would you recommend?

 

Thansk

 

Chris

[glennda]

There are many people on here who use ruckus (its probably the one i would go for but i'm stuck with a cisco system!) Contact Net-Ctrl on here they sell the stuff.

[Haptic]

I'll drop you a PM and arrange to get a demo kit out to you- lets face it until you see it within your school and with your users its a bit of a minefield of marketing claims and stylised demonstrations.

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[Steven_Cleaver]

I would also be tempted to look at Aruba used this at my last place and it was an excellent system with some really useful features, that I felt made it the best of the few systems I looked at including Netegear, HP, Meru, Xirrus, also as someone has mentioned Ruckus which a lot of people on the forum seem more than happy with but deffinately look at Aruba as an alternative.

[jamesfed]

Take a look at the Aerohive kit as well - worked out best for us because at the time it was one of the few Wi-Fi solutions that didn't need a controler to work (although you do still have one to perform updates and so on).

Works great with 802.1x (if thats what you are into) and coverage from their N class APs are great.

[Soulfish]

We're just looking at site coverage for a new build and we're talking to Ruckus, Aerohive, Meru and Extricom. I think all four have things they bring to the table, and all have their pros and cons. I think Aerohive have a very innovative product, being fairly new to market that looks like it works quite well. Ruckus I've used previously and is good value and has some features, while Meru and Extricom are both single channel architectures with their set of benefits. In some ways I do believe any of the four would work, some better than others, but it's trying to find the best fit for your environment which can only really be done with some real world testing.

[MatthewL]

We use Aruba and cannot fault it. Picking up some more AP's from the office tomorrow for networks to install, so simple to do and solid as a sock.

[MicrodigitUK]

Aruba is good but it has very similar problems to the Netgear system and that is all traffic has to tunnel back to the controller before it drops onto the network. And in dence environments this can be a big botal neck. P.s your netgear switch is just a rebranded Aruba 800 controller so on the plus side you would be at home with the GUI. Also you can evan load Aruba OS onto the netgear and manage Aruba ap's but not the new 802.11n ones. Edited April 21, 2011 by MicrodigitUK

[witch]

.......and solid as a sock.

 

When did you last do some washing!

[MatthewL]

Ooops lol, about 3 weeks ago I used the washer, first time I've managed it on my own LOL

[steveg]

Are you sure there is not interference or another problem with your existing network? 30 lots of 3mb doesnt sound like a lot to me, even when you factor in all the other data transfered during a logon. Whilst we don't have roaming profiles here, we do happily hang 30 netbooks off of one netgear ap on a managed system, and all access files off the network, go on the internet and print with very few problems. I know the netgear kit wont scale brilliantly, and the stuff like Ruckus is in a different league (got it at 2 schools) but you should be getting better performance from the netgear ap's than you currently are. Where I have the netear kit is only a small village primary School, but it copes with the 80 netbooks they have accross 6 classrooms.

 

Steve

[pantscat]

I looked at LOADS of vendors when I was buying my wireless system - I think the initial line up was HP, Motorola, Ruckus, Aruba, Meru, Xirrus and Cisco. Then through testing/product demos and discussions I narrowed it down to Motorola, Cisco, Aruba and Ruckus... then down to just Aruba and Ruckus.

 

In the end the Ruckus system "won" due to it's simplicity and slightly better coverage on my site here*. Cost-wise the two solutions were pretty similar, Ruckus being only slightly cheaper in the end.

 

 

* NB - Your mileage may vary... etc.

[WithoutMotive]

We've recently gone for (almost) full school coverage with a Meru system. A few problems but, overall, a good system and easy to manage.

[chrisgoodrich]

We've recently gone for (almost) full school coverage with a Meru system. A few problems but, overall, a good system and easy to manage.

 

Thank you all for our feedback.

 

How do your wireless systems cope with 30 + laptops logging on at the same time, how long does it take? What is the size of your roaming/mandatory profile?

[GrumbleDook]

One of the thing that amuses me in demonstrations from some wireless providers is how they will forget to mention that how you run your profiles and scripts can make more of a difference to login / logoff times ... they will say their product will fix slow speeds for you, but the network might not be where the problem lies. That is why it is often best to get test kit in for a few days and do your comparisons.

[CyberNerd]

One big thumbs up for Meru. We have total site coverage (I can genuinely walk from one end of the campus to the other without dropping a ping).

 

The great advantage of single channel systems such as Meru is that you can put as many access points as you require in a certain area/room without interference.

 

I would advise that you treat the AP's as any other switch that holds 30 connections - ensure that they all have 1gb/s uplinks to a decent core.

[m25man]

We have just started field trialling the Ubiquiti Unify system at one of our schools.

This will run for 3 months with 6 points running from a a single VM hosting the "Free" management controller.

This can also be downloaded as a VMware virtual appliance but we want to run it on the Hyper-v failover cluster just to see how things work out.

 

So far the initial installation was about as simple as it gets, blink and you miss it...

 

Then you deploy a few points using the supplied POE adapters or use the 802.11af compliant couplers.

 

Log into the web interface of the controller and you will see the newly deployed points as unadopted.

 

Select them and click Adopt...

 

That's it, the ESSID, VLan info, Power outputs and channel selection is done instantly and the controllers java based interface displays the AP's on your own floor plans with all of the client information such as MAC address, IP, SSID and current link speed/throughput.

 

Using all available 2.4Ghz channels and 20/40Mhz N capability we have had over 100mb throughput and a windows 7 laptop logged in with a standard user profile in about 14 seconds.

 

Now, at this point we have validated the performance using the Etherscope and see very healthy behaviour in what is a hostile environment in the busiest part of Londons West End the real fun will start when the kids come back after Easter and begin to give it a good pounding.

 

This is the best bit, at £200 for 3 APs including the passive POE adapters and the FREE controller software I think that the usual suspects lurking on this forum had better watch out.

I have every confidence in this kit, we have been using their bridges and point to point stuff for years giving 100mb links over several miles without ever loosing a ping but this is their first attempt at the enterprise wifi stuff.

 

With Dual Band Dual Radio units due later this year allowing N across both bands and radios simultaneously anything is possible.

 

So all of you over priced, over rated solution providers had better watch out, there is a new kid on the block and if nothing else will help cut some of them down to size in this current economic climate...

 

Reality bites, a $200,000 condo in a Disney Estate is now $65,000, why? because the Market is saturated with them and buyers have woken up and smelt the coffee!

Managed wifi solutions have been over priced for too long, with vendors selling us the same technology repackaged several times over.

I predict there will be tears from both vendors and those who have spent a small fortune on systems that just never lived up to the price tags.

[IanT]

I've used HP Wireless Solutions in my current role and last job.

 

HP ProCurve 760 Mobility Controller & HP ProCurve MSM422 Access Point

 

Solid as a rock!

[chrisgoodrich]

I really like the look if Aerohive. Has anyone got any experience of it? How does it work in your environment?

[sirsir]

Hi,

 

We currently have a Netgear Managed Wireless solution in our school which is not fit for purpose. Currently when 30 laptops are in use in one classroom in can take upto 15 or 20 minutes for them to login with a 3MB mandatory profile.

 

We are looking into alternative systems mainly Meru, Xirrus, Ruckus and Trapeze. What are your experiences with these products like? Will they manage high density quick enough? What would you recommend?

 

Thansk

 

Chris

 

We use Xirrus here, have done for 2 years now and no problems. We run a laptop per child scheme so we needed a beefy, reliable system. I can honestly say that I haven't had any staff calling me re. wireless problems ......

 

Tom

[hagridsbeard]

We've got site wide Meru here, but quite spaced out (38 APs for a 2500 staff/student school). It works well, but I'd advise you to be cautious if you have any RealTek WLAN cards (you're bound too) as they seem to have issues with the single cell.

 

Apparently Meru and RealTek are near to resolving it, but it has caused me a fair few headaches.

 

On non RealTek devices, it's honestly faultless.

[Zenden]

We have just started field trialling the Ubiquiti Unify system at one of our schools.

This will run for 3 months with 6 points running from a a single VM hosting the "Free" management controller.

This can also be downloaded as a VMware virtual appliance but we want to run it on the Hyper-v failover cluster just to see how things work out.

 

So far the initial installation was about as simple as it gets, blink and you miss it...

 

Then you deploy a few points using the supplied POE adapters or use the 802.11af compliant couplers.

 

Log into the web interface of the controller and you will see the newly deployed points as unadopted.

 

Select them and click Adopt...

 

That's it, the ESSID, VLan info, Power outputs and channel selection is done instantly and the controllers java based interface displays the AP's on your own floor plans with all of the client information such as MAC address, IP, SSID and current link speed/throughput.

 

Using all available 2.4Ghz channels and 20/40Mhz N capability we have had over 100mb throughput and a windows 7 laptop logged in with a standard user profile in about 14 seconds.

 

Now, at this point we have validated the performance using the Etherscope and see very healthy behaviour in what is a hostile environment in the busiest part of Londons West End the real fun will start when the kids come back after Easter and begin to give it a good pounding.

 

This is the best bit, at £200 for 3 APs including the passive POE adapters and the FREE controller software I think that the usual suspects lurking on this forum had better watch out.

I have every confidence in this kit, we have been using their bridges and point to point stuff for years giving 100mb links over several miles without ever loosing a ping but this is their first attempt at the enterprise wifi stuff.

 

With Dual Band Dual Radio units due later this year allowing N across both bands and radios simultaneously anything is possible.

 

So all of you over priced, over rated solution providers had better watch out, there is a new kid on the block and if nothing else will help cut some of them down to size in this current economic climate...

 

Reality bites, a $200,000 condo in a Disney Estate is now $65,000, why? because the Market is saturated with them and buyers have woken up and smelt the coffee!

Managed wifi solutions have been over priced for too long, with vendors selling us the same technology repackaged several times over.

I predict there will be tears from both vendors and those who have spent a small fortune on systems that just never lived up to the price tags.

 

Wow that really does look good. We have just ordered 6 APs to try them out too, how are you getting on with them? They seem almost too good to be true! one question, do they have a function whereby they reboot themselves when they cant connect to the controller/the network or do they have a self healing function (eg the two closest APs to a broken AP take over its workload?)

 

thanks for the headsup, i really hope these are as good as they sound as they seem to be an absolute bargain!

[m25man]

@Zenden thanks for the rep...

 

Have you got yours working yet?

Our trial is going well and I cant wait to get my hands on the Dual Band Units... evidently they plan to extend the firmware onto some external units as well which will be interesting.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[Zenden]

@Zenden thanks for the rep...

 

Have you got yours working yet?

Our trial is going well and I cant wait to get my hands on the Dual Band Units... evidently they plan to extend the firmware onto some external units as well which will be interesting.

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

got it in and up and running today, so far so good!! got a guest SSID running on a seperate VLAN which goes straight out to the web (thus avoiding our LAN which makes me happy!), have installed 6 APs as a trial and they were all adopted easily with no hickups and the Controller immediately picked up that there was a new firmware so i installed it right away I am very very happy so far, if things carry on like this we will cover the whole school with this thing. If it stays up and running and sturdy then I can see Ubiquiti really taking over, three Access Points for 180 quid and a free Controller is a rediculous bargain! I think it is worth a punt for anyone looking into managed wireless, buy 6 APs just as a trial and even if it fails you are only 360 quid down (when you consider the price of other wifi solutions this is a drop in the ocean!).

 

We did have one hickup though --> The access points are american standard so they need 24volt POE rather than UK 16v. We had bought a POE switch for it in advance (doh!). did you happen to find a 24v POE which can purchased in the UK?

[mac_shinobi]

solid as a sock.

 

It is if you try and dry the sock in freezing cold weather lol