The French are mad...

[tech_guy]

Well, I think they are - trying to pass stupid racist legislation like this:

 

BBC News - Woman in face veil detained as France enforces ban

[Dos_Box]

It's not 'racist' (a religion is not a race), but as it is more a 'cultural' belief from certain areas of Islam. However I do question the wisdom of such a policy.

[teejay]

Or alternatively you could say it's protecting the human rights of the women who are forced to wear the veil by their husband/family.

I also wouldn't call it racist, people who wear the veil are from different races, but usually from the same religion.

Personally, no I don't agree with the legislation, existing legislation could be used to protect the women, however a friend who does voluntary work supporting vulnerable and abused women in this group supports it.

[witch]

Except that, if you read the Koran it doesn't say that women have to be veiled at all, just that they have to be modest and only expose face hands and feet. SO you could argue that the full veil is a choice and is in fact culture based rather than religion

[nicholab]

Well hoodies are not allowed in certain shopping centres. If it's a problem they have the free choose to go and live in country that is more suited to their requirements. Edited April 11, 2011 by nicholab

[mjs_mjs]

Well hoodies are not allowed in certain shopping centres.

 

BlueWater is one.

[beeswax]

libertie egalitie fraternite

[irsprint84]

Except that, if you read the Koran it doesn't say that women have to be veiled at all, just that they have to be modest and only expose face hands and feet. SO you could argue that the full veil is a choice and is in fact culture based rather than religion

 

Well I went out with a muslim girl years ago and know the koran quite well from her the only women who wore veils were Muhammad's wife's but only because he was a profet and thats the only reason and muhammad didnt preach to do the same

[DAZZD88]

If you go to some eastern countries, you are expected to dress in the manner that they are accustomed to i.e. the veils for women.

 

So why is it unfair that we should expect people to dress like us?

[irsprint84]

If you go to some eastern countries, you are expected to dress in the manner that they are accustomed to i.e. the veils for women.

 

So why is it unfair that we should expect people to dress like us?

 

Well in the Koran it does state 'while in rome' kind of remark

[DAZZD88]

@irsprint84, does that you mean you agree with my POV?

[irsprint84]

@irsprint84, does that you mean you agree with my POV?

 

I m a staunch liberal but people can believe in what they want if they dont bother me or change me so yeah I agree

[localzuk]

The problem with the belief that allowing veils is ok is that it doesn't work. Multi-multiculturalism continually fails. Other cultures don't often want to integrate, and adjust. They don't want to take up some of our traditions and replace their own. So instead of a nice integrated society, you end up with a massively segmented society.

 

You end up with estates where only Muslims live, or where only white guys live etc... So you just end up with tensions and eventually race issues.

 

By removing the 'extreme' aspects of a culture, it means that people who aren't Muslim will feel less like they're being looked down upon, and it'll mean Muslims understand the 'this is our country, we expect you to integrate' rule of living there.

 

The same idea applies to any cultural or religious belief IMO, they should not be getting in the way of the day to day integration of any people into a society.

 

And all of that is before you touch on the subject of women being subjugated.

[Butuz]

For once the French are totally sane in my oppinion!

 

Butuz

[Gibbo]

Except that, if you read the Koran it doesn't say that women have to be veiled at all, just that they have to be modest and only expose face hands and feet. SO you could argue that the full veil is a choice and is in fact culture based rather than religion

 

This is the same Koran which also doesn't mention stoning women, yet they still do it.

[Guest Guest]

OMG localzuk, we are in total agreement for once!

 

"When in Rome..." pretty much sums my view up - hence why I believe anyone who goes to live in Spain, France, etc should actually bother to learn the language and integrate into their culture.

 

A massive part of how we identify people is by their face, this is the same across the entire world and has been for all of history - we as a species are the only species to have evolved such a wide diversity of faces and facial gestures. As said hoodies are banned in a lot of places, so are bike helmets, so are balaclavas... and as it is a cultural belief and not a religious one why should veils be any different?

 

That is before you get onto the oppression of women. Many say it isn't oppression, but that they choose to do it. I'll bet that if you asked many women back 200 year ago if they felt oppressed by not having a vote they would answer no, it still doesn't make it right though.

[bossman]

@All:

 

A child when it is born recognises its parents by their faces so it is apparent that to all human beings seeing other peoples faces gives us all the confidence to approach that person, if that person is masked by whatever then our childhood upbringing tells us that something is not right with this scenario and therefore we feel uncomfortable with it and so avoid confrontation as in the flight syndrome or we confront as in the fight syndrome which is a basic animal instinct which we all have.

 

It would therefore be in everyone's interest if only to allow each other to understand and fully integrate with one another as a full multicultural society the fact that we could greet each other face to face in a modern cultural experience.

 

Its not a racist thing its old culture and with the world becoming smaller by the second it is a culture which hinders all the world from fully integrating and being as one nation "The Human Race"

[andyturpie]

Don't think this issue is as big as it is being made to be, us jocks have had to forfeit the skein dhu as part of the highland dress due to the offensive weapons act. I cannot for the life of me remember an outcry.

[plexer]

Don't think this issue is as big as it is being made to be, us jocks have had to forfeit the skein dhu as part of the highland dress due to the offensive weapons act. I cannot for the life of me remember an outcry.

 

Are you sure about that?

 

Ben

[plexer]

139Offence of having article with blade or point in public place

 

(1)Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

 

(2)Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

 

(3)This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

 

(4)It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

 

(5)Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

 

(a)for use at work;

 

(b)for religious reasons; or

 

©as part of any national costume.

 

Taken from: Criminal Justice Act 1988

 

Ben

[andyturpie]

I can't remember the burning of the St George's cross in protest to that decision.

[Busybub]

Taken from: Criminal Justice Act 1988

 

Ben

 

Wot's it say about a Jedi and his light sabre???

[Andrew_C]

The French are strong in the belief that society should be integrated and "French". That is what is at the root of their decision; in which light it makes perfect sense. Whether it will work, or cause friction, is another question.

[somabc]

libertie egalitie fraternite

 

Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité, ou la Mort - certains sont plus égaux que d'autres.

Edited April 11, 2011 by somabc

[featured_spectre]

Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, or Death , some are more equal than others...could not agree more.

 

French however are massively patriotic, and its not just the veil they banned, they gave the view, if one is banned, ALL are banned. You cant wear a skullcap if you are jewish unless in a synagogue, you cant publicly show the cross, or have a bindi if you are hindu (outside of religious ceremonies).

 

That is a sensible decision in banning it for all so that nobody can pull out the "religious oppression" card, and THAT the driving force behind the decision.