How do you.....explain to a teacher what is legal and illegal.....

[kennysarmy]

Examples:

 

1. Can you download this BBC clip that someone has put on youtube and make a DVD of it for me?

 

2. Here is an audio CD someone from another school has lent me, can you copy it to the network so students can take copies or use in lessons?

 

3. Is it possible to save a clip from Channel 4 on demand?

 

Has anyone got or compliled a list of things like the above that are illegal?

 

I'd like to collate a list and email it to all staff so that they can see what they are often asking for is against the law.

 

Similarly there may be things that come to light that we THINK are illegal that are actually allowable.

 

Anyone jumped through this hoop before - I'd be grateful of you sharing your experience.

 

Thanks.

[roty80]

I tried to come up with an agreement on illegal material when I became System Admin at my old school but was overruled by the head. Teachers just complained to him that they couldn't do their lessons and he said 'do what they want, he'll deal with the consequences'.

[jcollings]

Examples:

 

1. Can you download this BBC clip that someone has put on youtube and make a DVD of it for me?

 

2. Here is an audio CD someone from another school has lent me, can you copy it to the network so students can take copies or use in lessons?

 

3. Is it possible to save a clip from Channel 4 on demand?

 

Has anyone got or compliled a list of things like the above that are illegal?

 

I'd like to collate a list and email it to all staff so that they can see what they are often asking for is against the law.

 

Similarly there may be things that come to light that we THINK are illegal that are actually allowable.

 

Anyone jumped through this hoop before - I'd be grateful of you sharing your experience.

 

Thanks.

 

I've just recieved a pile of leaflets from these people.

 

Childnet International - Music, Film, TV and the Internet

 

They look like they could be a good starting point.

[CyberNerd]

you should be ok with bbc and channel 4 stuff provided it has been shown on TV and you have an ERA liecnse

The ERA Licensing Scheme

[witch]

I tried to come up with an agreement on illegal material when I became System Admin at my old school but was overruled by the head. Teachers just complained to him that they couldn't do their lessons and he said 'do what they want, he'll deal with the consequences'.

 

This is very dodgy - my understanding is that as the person who actually does the deed, you are as liable as the one who told you to do it

[localzuk]

My rule is this - I am the person who makes the final decision on whether something is legal or not when it comes to getting me to copy something. It is me who would be breaking copyright law by copying it, and as such no amount of head teachers overruling me would make the slightest bit of difference.

 

So, if I discover that a disc isn't ours or we don't have copyright permission to copy it, I will simply refuse to do it. Much like I'd refuse if someone told me to steal something.

 

There's no simple way of getting teachers to understand copyright laws - as in most cases they simply don't care (in my experience).

[JJonas]

I agree with Witch on this one you are the one committing the crime not the Head.

[soveryapt]

My suggestion would be (as I have told staff here) if you want to download a clip from somewhere, ZamZar.com is a good place to start, but please be aware of any copyright infringement this may cause. Then follow it up with a 'if something that is in violation of copyright is found on any of the school hardward (which I feel should include USB Memory sticks as staff shouldn't be using their own) it will be deleted immediately with no warning.

 

Now, as to whether you follow that up or not is up to you, but instead you've given them access to a legal service, but if they choose to use it to illegally download material and use it within the school, then that is up to them.

 

The one thing I certainly wouldn't be doing is downloading the information myself, because of the reasons mentioned above.

[roty80]

I agree with Witch on this one you are the one committing the crime not the Head.

 

Hence the reason I no longer work there.

 

It was his way or you get pushed out. I fortunately managed to find another job before I was pushed.

 

The NM said he was told: I don't want to hear excuses, I tell you what to do and you do it.

Edited November 23, 2010 by roty80

[plexer]

If someone is asking you to do something illegal then you don't do it full stop, there is nothing they can say or do that will make any difference in fact let them sack you for it and then they will suffer the consequences of what happens after just make sure you make a note of everything.

 

Ben

[ArchersIT]

you should be ok with bbc and channel 4 stuff provided it has been shown on TV and you have an ERA liecnse

The ERA Licensing Scheme

 

Actually, you are not. To quote from ERA Licences and Catch up Television

and similar video on-demand services

 

Can I use programmes that are made available on Catch up TV services and similar video on demand services such as BBC iPlayer, ITV Player, Channel 4 VOD, Demand Five, S4C /Clic, You Tube, SeeSaw, MSN, Blinkbox and similar services under an ERA or ERA Plus licence?

No. The ERA Licence does not cover the use of programmes when they are delivered within these services.

 

Why not?

Go and look at the page to find out more! :-)

 

Jonathan

[AngryTechnician]

I don't have a pre-made list but I can answer all of your initial questions:

 

1. The recording can only be made by an ERA licence holder, or by a third party under contract by the licence holder. The recording must also be marked with:

 

• the name of the broadcaster,
  
• the date upon which the broadcast took place,
  
• and the title of the recording.
  

 

To provide sufficient acknowledgement all copies shall be marked with a statement in clear and bold lettering reading: "This recording is to be used only for non-commercial educational purposes under the terms of the ERA Licence" or such other wording or statement as ERA shall reasonably require from time to time.

 

Physical copies shall include the statement on the exterior of the copy, and/or its packaging.

 

When under the Licence copies are made and stored in digital form for access through a computer server, the statement shall also be included as a written opening credit or webpage which must be viewed or listened to before access to the ERA Recording is permitted.

 

Source: http://www.era.org.uk/doc/ERA%20Licensing%20Scheme%2009.pdf

 

 

2. As far as I know, none of the available copyright licences available to schools make provision for copying CDs (unless they are not covered by copyright, or you have express permission from the copyright holder). This is true even if the school owns the CD.

 

As a side note, even ripping a CD you own for your own use is not technically legal, as UK copyright law does not currently include a fair use provision such as that which exists in US law. (Indirect source: BBC NEWS | Business | UK 'has the worst copyright laws')

 

 

3. Even if it were technically feasible, this is expressly not covered by the ERA licence.

Source: The ERA Licensing Scheme

 

 

More information: A Guide to Copyright Licensing in Schools

 

On the topic of being instructed to do these things by SMT, this is just one more reason to be in a union. Nobody can be instructed to do something illegal in the course of their work (even in the Armed Forces you can legitimately refuse an illegal order), and your union's legal department will back you 100%.

[Butuz]

My position is simple. I won't do anything illegal.

 

If someone else wants to do it be it a trainee teacher or the head - they can carry right on but they can do it themselves if neccasary at home, I won't have anything to do with it.

 

Simples!

 

Butuz

[SpuffMonkey]

I always say "Yes, of course, no problem, just as soon as you can give me a letter from the copyright holder saying that's OK"

 

To be fair - a couple have actual managed to do this, but thats all in the last 7 years.

[pooley]

How do you.....explain to a teacher what is legal and illega

 

Usually with a big stick!!

[elsiegee40]

There is some useful material from Simon Finch of NGfL here: copyright « simfin that might help

[GREED]

Gotta love teachers... as long as I can teach my lessons bugger the law...

 

That is an actual quote of a teacher arguing with me on this same subject a couple of years back!

[CapEnd]

Am I the only one who is a little bit naughty on the copyright side?

[GREED]

Personal or professional?

[Face-Man]

This is off this point but there is no copyright on that...

 

Having seen a teacher instruct a TA to photocopy a book for every kid in the class this problem is nothing new. The dilemma is that now it is easy (relatively) and culturally prevalent (I blame my mate Buckie's mix tapes from the 1980's). Just with the photocopier and mix tape it is still illegal and nobody should undertake it as part of their duties at work. However the bigger picture is that the Law is not fit for the digital world we live in and governments and companies move to maintain the status quo rather than fix the problem.

 

Anyway for a different view on copyright and how it foils creativity check out

 

Larry Lessig on laws that choke creativity | Video on TED.com (check the Bush Blair love song half way in)

 

youtube and copyright

 

 

I especially like the thought of where would Disney be if it didn't use the out of copyright fairy tales to make its fortune last century.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Face-Man

[featured_spectre]

I ask for the "order" in writing, signed, dated and countersigned by another member of staff, with a copy of the copyright holders permission, if they do not have the last part then I say no.

 

Headteacher threatened to give me a disciplinary for not following instructions and insubordination, 1 call to my union put her straight.

[CapEnd]

Personal or professional?

 

Both...

[localzuk]

Am I the only one who is a little bit naughty on the copyright side?

 

Both...

 

I think that's pretty bad - you should not be playing fast and loose with the law in a professional or personal capacity!

 

That may be so, but who's going to know? I personally find it much easier to use a programme obtained from an iplayer downloading program as opposed to a teacher recording it onto a DVD, or setting up a freeview box and capture device.

 

The ERA can be a bit of a dinosaur at times. When I first contacted them in 2003 to talk about streaming media servers they had no idea what I was on about and had to write a new set of rules for it.

 

Just because it can be a dinosaur, doesn't mean you should ignore the rules set by it.

[sippo]

The amount of Music CD's that people bring in to put on the system is unbeleivable. I crack down every few months or so, then they reappear despite me telling them about copyright issues. I've also explained that we as a school are unlicensed to watch DVD's in classroom's. It still goes on 4 years after me telling them...

[SpuffMonkey]

Anyone here seen documentary-log.com site - had a teacher in today asking me to free it up - seems connect to a site called "graboid" which looked very dodgy - anyone know