steveg Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 We are going to be replacing all (17) of the computers in our IT suite this year, but are on a pretty tight budget. One of the main things we want to use the suite for is video editing, so they are going to need to be pretty high spec machines. We intend to use Pinacle studio 12, unless anyone can recomend a better video editing package for primary school pupils? - We have tried movie maker but it isn't good enough for what they want. I have looked at the pc's offered by Dell, as we have been exclusively dell in the past, but they dont seem to be very good value at the moment, so I have looked into building our own, and for our budget can get the following spec: Amd phenom II x4 940 4gb Ram 160gb hdd DVD-RW 512mb Geforce 9400 graphics card Tower case and 500w branded psu Multi card reader Vista home oem. £406 per pc We already have LCD monitors, and 17 copies of Vista business upgrade. Our total budget to get 17 pc's and 30 copies of the video editing software is £7500 (and that is stretching it a bit!) Has anyone else built their own computers? I know they would only be covered by the component warranties, but we are well staffed and could support them in house. Any other suggestions would be welcome! Steve
matt40k Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 You can't use OEM license. As they are for system builders, not the end users. Way round it is to you, an individual\sole trader, to have build them, then "sell" them to the school.
powdarrmonkey Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) You can't use OEM license. As they are for system builders, not the end users. Here the school is the system builder, so that argument is null (though perhaps the rules have changed since I last built one). Way round it is to you, an individual\sole trader, to have build them, then "sell" them to the school. (I am not an accountant) I believe this may raise taxation questions for you. Edited April 28, 2009 by powdarrmonkey
OutToLunch Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 You can't use OEM license. As they are for system builders, not the end users. Way round it is to you, an individual\sole trader, to have build them, then "sell" them to the school. I think that's a very drastic interpretation of the terms. OEM software can be purchased and installed with new hardware, it's just tied to the lifespan of the hardware. If they are buying new motherboards and building the PCs themselves, I believe that meets the terms of being able to purchase an OEM copy to go with it and use it as install media.
localzuk Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I think that's a very drastic interpretation of the terms. OEM software can be purchased and installed with new hardware, it's just tied to the lifespan of the hardware. If they are buying new motherboards and building the PCs themselves, I believe that meets the terms of being able to purchase an OEM copy to go with it and use it as install media. No, you have to be a registered systems builder to use MS OEM licenses unless they are bought with a computer (ie. from dell etc...).
matt40k Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Yes, it was a very shady work round. Should be ok as you won't be making any money. However, again shady (i'll go sit on the naughty step for saying such things). When I previous look at it, our MS licensing guy said no, OEM you must sell the license with the hardware, you can't buy OEM and hardware and assemble yourself and use, as you're the end user. Not sure about what localzuk said about being registered, I think, you can for free. EDIT: http://www.microsoft.com/oem/default.mspx
localzuk Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Yes, it was a very shady work round. Should be ok as you won't be making any money. However, again shady (i'll go sit on the naughty step for saying such things). When I previous look at it, our MS licensing guy said no, OEM you must sell the license with the hardware, you can't buy OEM and hardware and assemble yourself and use, as you're the end user. Not sure about what localzuk said about being registered, I think, you can for free. EDIT: Microsoft OEM Partner Center Web Site Yes, it is free. But it is another hurdle. Also, remember that you can only buy OEM licenses from authorised distributors, namely these: Authorized Microsoft OEM Distributors
Jamman960 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 If its cheaper to build yourself I'd go for it, just make sure you choose a good sturdy case. Some of the cheap ones are awful to build and fall apart too quickly. Enlight do some very good cases. We haven't built our own PC's as yet but we're doing an after school club this term with the pupils to build 3 new ones... should be fun
Butuz Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 What about your Dell 3 year warranty? 3 years of trouble free computing? Butuz
lbradley Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 We are going to be replacing all (17) of the computers in our IT suite this year, but are on a pretty tight budget. One of the main things we want to use the suite for is video editing, so they are going to need to be pretty high spec machines. We intend to use Pinacle studio 12, unless anyone can recomend a better video editing package for primary school pupils? - We have tried movie maker but it isn't good enough for what they want. I have looked at the pc's offered by Dell, as we have been exclusively dell in the past, but they dont seem to be very good value at the moment, so I have looked into building our own, and for our budget can get the following spec: Amd phenom II x4 940 4gb Ram 160gb hdd DVD-RW 512mb Geforce 9400 graphics card Tower case and 500w branded psu Multi card reader Vista home oem. £406 per pc We already have LCD monitors, and 17 copies of Vista business upgrade. Our total budget to get 17 pc's and 30 copies of the video editing software is £7500 (and that is stretching it a bit!) Has anyone else built their own computers? I know they would only be covered by the component warranties, but we are well staffed and could support them in house. Any other suggestions would be welcome! Steve where did you find the processor? i need a phenom for my PC at home.
powdarrmonkey Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 where did you find the processor? i need a phenom for my PC at home. amd phenom - Google Product Search
steveg Posted April 28, 2009 Author Posted April 28, 2009 Thanks for all the feedback, I'll look into the oem issue, but sure I can work a way around it. I agree that the 3 year warranty on a dell is nice, but it would mean a huge drop in spec to get a dell for that price. The processor was from misco, I think ebuyer also have them in stock. Steve
Dos_Box Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Give ICT-Direct a ring. I'll bet they have some warrentied kit that will be cheaper than your home brew, and from tier 1 vendors too ICT Direct - computer hardware for ict in education - primary, secondary, special needs schools and colleges
K.C.Leblanc Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I would factor in a few spare motherboards. It'll make your life easier with images etc. if you have to replace a mobo. Are you actauly asking Dell etc. to quote you or are you just going on the prices on their web site?
featured_spectre Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 ring around, Simon (from CP) quoted me for a PC thats higher spec than that, at roughly the same price, and it was going to be built for us. Fine the OS was not included but put XP on, put your vista upgrade on, sysprep the machine, then ghost the machine, job done!
OutToLunch Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I'm sure there is some confusion here over the difference between a single OEM pack of software and OPK media. Anyone who is building their own PC can legally use an OEM copy of Windows purchased with the hardware on it without any legal implications and without registering as a system builder. OEM system builder software packs are intended for PC and server manufacturers or assemblers ONLY. They are not intended for distribution to end-users unless the end-users are acting as system builders by assembling their own PCs. https://partner.microsoft.com/UK/40047531 Who Is a System Builder? A system builder is anyone who assembles, reassembles, or installs software on a new or used computer system. https://partner.microsoft.com/UK/40012170
strawberry Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Give ICT-Direct a ring. I'll bet they have some warrentied kit that will be cheaper than your home brew, and from tier 1 vendors too ICT Direct - computer hardware for ict in education - primary, secondary, special needs schools and colleges my suggestion too.
synaesthesia Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I wouldn't worry too much about the OEM thing. Although the above advice is very correct, MS have accepted the loophole about it being sold to end users, sometimes with or without non peripheral hardware. I had a long discussion about this with Ebuyer (morons) and Microsoft and it's just left very lax. As for building yourself - if you're not planning on leaving any time soon, and you have no quarms with diagnosing faults yourself (which you're probably already doing with warrantied kit) you will be enjoying more benefits - rather than 1/3 year warranty, you'll have lifetime guarantees on your memory, 10 years on most hard drives, 5-15 years on graphics card, lots of variable timescales which are typically a minimum of 5 years for the core components. It will however be worth looking into vista business and speaking to suppliers about bulk discount, I'd be fairly certain you'll get it at the same price as home premium. As a separate thought though, perhaps it might be an idea, your setup allowing, to put aside a couple of machines, throw in 8gb of ram each and a 64bit OS to really give you some video crunching juice? It's not something I've personally done as yet but thought it might give you an edge and whilst the ram is costing pennies (8gb = £70 to home users inc VAT, as a school you'll be claiming that back anyway) it might be worth consideration.
mb2k01 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Our total budget to get 17 pc's and 30 copies of the video editing software is £7500 (and that is stretching it a bit!) Has anyone else built their own computers? I know they would only be covered by the component warranties, but we are well staffed and could support them in house. Any other suggestions would be welcome! Steve I've done it before in my days as a technician - built about 17 too. The computers were fine, but it's the niggly things that bug you afterwards. If a componant goes down then you have to spend time and energy diagnosing and gettin in touch with the manafacturer (if you buy 17 identical componants you stand a chance of maybe getting a bad batch - i did on hard drives - really sucked!). I thought long and hard about doing this again one summer for a batch of 45 but decided against it with my new managerial hat on. The fact that I can buy a batch that have been custom built, tested, and come with a 5yr next day on-site business warranty for the same money or even less than what I could build them for was a no-brainer! My advice..... don't do it!
mossj Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 how good are the pcs at the mo? are they expandable? If your going to custom build then why not look at using the components you already have? I.E I'm betting the case/pcu/mobo will all be good, and you can still use that ram... so that way all you need is a graphics card, bit more ram, better cpu but as i said depends on your current spec.
steveg Posted April 28, 2009 Author Posted April 28, 2009 Thanks for all the input. The current machines really arent upgradable - they are p4 1.8ghz, and now have 768mb ram after we upgraded them a couple of years ago to make them last this long! They are all small form factor dell's, so can't take standard expansion cards etc. I think I will have a look at a few other suppliers to see what they can do. Do ICT-Direct sell any higher spec kit? Most of the stuff on their website seems to be older cheaper stuff. Anyone got any comments on Pinacle studio 12? I've had a play with the demo and it looks ok to me, just wondered if there was any alternatives that may be better or cheaper? Thanks 1
Hacksawbob Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 If your strapped for cash how about ubuntu studio? try and slap it on you existing P4s and rack the memory up to the max they'll take, maybe spend the saved cash on an external capture box's what have you got to lose! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PackageList uses openmovieeditor [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ljEb1PdEdM]YouTube - Linux Video Editing with Open Movie Editor[/ame] I'd like to hear from anyone who has experience using this not tried it my self yet or a mac mini? you could scrape together some monitors movie authoring is something it does pretty well Apple Mac Mini 2.0Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo 1GB/120GB/SD/NVIDIA Geforce 9400M Desktop PC MB463B/A - PC World Business Online Store UK - Buy The Best Deals Online.
john Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Give ICT-Direct a ring. I'll bet they have some warrentied kit that will be cheaper than your home brew, and from tier 1 vendors too ICT Direct - computer hardware for ict in education - primary, secondary, special needs schools and colleges 3rd'd Got some very nice HP machines from him and would love about another 200 of them to replace all the other stuff we have in the place
Batman Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 If you buy your cases from Kelway they may be happy to stick the COAs to them for you, this would get round it I think. hehehe....
dhicks Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 The current machines really arent upgradable - they are p4 1.8ghz, and now have 768mb ram after we upgraded them a couple of years ago to make them last this long! And what are you planning to do with them once you have new machines? -- David Hicks
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