Laptops for students

[jcollings]

Just been in a meeting where the suggestion was made to give each of our 250 Year 10's a laptop to use in school on the wireless and at home.

 

Is anyone doing this at their school?

 

Personally I think the whole thing would be painful at every level - damage, speed of access etc, viruses, illegal software etc.

 

Answers on a postcard?

[gwendes]

Just been in a meeting where the suggestion was made to give each of our 250 Year 10's a laptop to use in school on the wireless and at home.

 

Is anyone doing this at their school?

 

Personally I think the whole thing would be painful at every level - damage, speed of access etc, viruses, illegal software etc.

 

Answers on a postcard?

 

To quote Zero Punctuation:

 

In short: NO.

In Long: 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO'

 

Personally I think it's a terrible idea too for the same reasons.

[jcollings]

To quote Zero Punctuation:

 

In short: NO.

In Long: 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO'

 

Personally I think it's a terrible idea too for the same reasons.

 

I agree but I think my hand may be forced on this one!

[LeMarchand]

Someone asked something similar here.

 

I've copied my contribution:

 

One of my schools implemented something like this for every child, but AUP-wise it was done-and-dusted without any input from me . If I was to write an AUP now, I'd want some sort of "3 strikes and you're out" clause (or immediate removal for serious infringements) covering P2P and pirated software etc along with porn. I'd also have a clause where non-warranty damage has to be paid for by the child's guardians, along with lost chargers and the like. I'd make it VERY CLEAR that such damage/infringements were serious matters.

 

Having had to deal with the various problems I'd suggest trying to convince them to supply the Linux version (depending on how the school sees the laptops being used) - at least that way the kids won't be loading on loads of games, and (depending on how I.T. literate the kids are) it might at least slow down the use of "frivolous" software. Failing that, I'm looking into using SteadyState on the laptops the school supplies, though this might not be feasible due to the comparatively low disk space on the EEEs. Ghosting is great, but I'm hoping to find something that a teacher can implement.

 

You might also want to look at getting in a stock of spare chargers and batteries...

 

All the above assumes that the machines will be the school's property, rather than the kids'. If the latter, you just need to cover anything that might cause offence at school.

 

Having spent the latter 1/2 of the morning (after spending the first 1/2 trying to track down one of the many in-need-of-repair-but nowhere-to-be-found machines) dealing with a -up computer that I had hidden an anti-P2P program on, only to find that someone had used a tool to discover what was preventing installation of Ares followed by a registry editor to cripple it (and prevent its re-installation), I can safely say that you need to lock the machines down tightly as re-imaging is all very well, but (unless you want to waste your time saving homework from the Gigs of downloaded music/films/worse) not an ideal solution.

 

P.S. Also set the power settings to turn off the machines when the lid is closed, as the little darlings rarely bother to shut down properly.

Edited September 30, 2008 by LeMarchand
Afterthought

[AyatollahPies]

You also need to make sure you aren't expected to deal with Wireless connection issues the kids may have at home.

 

You WILL get them!

 

[powdarrmonkey]

We have evaluated it - it took us all of about 4 seconds to throw the idea right where it belongs..

[Gibson335]

I worked at a school who chose to be at the forefront of AAL. Sharing the cost of the laptop with students is the worst part, because you can't stop them doing what they like with it...cue long queues every Monday morning...from what I understand, it really hasn't improved much...laptops in the hands of students equals nightmare for technical support!!

[LeMarchand]

You also need to make sure you aren't expected to deal with Wireless connection issues the kids may have at home.

 

You WILL get them!

 

 

...and the BT software that comes with their hubs often seems to cause problems with the school's wireless.

[bossman]

Aparently there is an investigation into wireless in education as there has been a report from the NHS of a 40% increase in brain related disease i.e. tumours, aneurysm's etc in children between the ages of 8 - 14 due, they think in part to mobile phone 2.4Ghz technology .

Further investigation revealed that at least 23% of age groups 8 - 14 asked in a survey conducted by the NHS had also revealed they slept with their mobile phones under their pillows switched on.

There has been info on the BBC website somewhere which I had been directed to which i think is a follow on from the documentary which ran about a year ago. If proved there will be a lot of concern from parents about this i feel.

Sorry to be negative about this.

[broc]

We have enough trouble keeping that number of laptops working in school, never mind allowing kids to take them home. You had better begin by asking for some serious additional funding for spares and technician time to keep them operational. You may also want to consider how the school will cope with large numbers of machines coming into school each day with flat batteries because the kids forgot to charge them up or their parents/guardians objected to paying for the electricity

[tmcd35]

Aparently there is an investigation into wireless in education as there has been a report from the NHS of a 40% increase in brain related disease i.e. tumours, aneurysm's etc in children between the ages of 8 - 14 due, they think in part to mobile phone 2.4Ghz technology .

 

We've installed swivel chairs here, so the kids cook evenly

[User3204]

Hmm.. Topical I have just received an email flyer from Syscap, who are offering this as a service. We had spoken to them a few years back, but we ran away because of the licensing issues.

 

Link from todays email: Learn Anywhere: The benefits

 

Sends you to here: Learn Anywhere for more information.

I think now, I would use all Open Source software, ubuntu anyone ?

[thesk8rjesus]

We've actually got a primary shool that we do the IT for and they've just all been given a laptop, the best thing to do is to not give the administrative rights and leave them as limited accounts, this is what we have done, and so far the only problem is that one kid put vista on the machine thinking if he didnt like it he could take it off again, NOPE HE COULDN'T

[Sylv3r]

We have ran lease2Own laptop schemes for a couple of years (not doing it this year due to extra support needed for the CfP scheme).

 

Parents / Students paid £20 per month over a 22 month period, this entitled them to a laptop with Microsoft Office, 3 year warranty and 3 year insurance. At the end of the 22 month period they was an ownership fee of £18 which gave entitlement from our school to the parents / student to take onto University with them.

 

They are charities out their such as the e-Learning foundation but you must be seen to providing facilities for a cohort and not just the minority. You could receive funding from the e-Learning foundation as well as a parental contribution to help fund this scheme.

[Theblacksheep]

We have 700 minibooks for students.

 

They are getting destroyed, most screen breaks where the children treat them like crap. If we had replaced the "careless" breakages so far, we'd be down over 8k.

 

25% of students really look after them and do work on them.

25% dont bother bringing them in.

25% aren't bothered either way.

10% destroyed through carelessness/ vandals.

10% hardware/general use failures.

5% actually destroyed them.

 

Most children try to install their own apps (linux handy here), most do no next to work on them and just use them for storing games/music/ pictures of themselves in typical bebo poses. They are also considered "broken" when they've deleted the school wireless password ("Inta-nets not workin")... Typical teacher ignorance will not help here either.

 

What little work they do on them, they dont back it up on the servers, who gets the blame when the laptop "deleted the work".

 

 

Our money should have been spent on IT rooms for each department. Infact our money would have been better used if it was given away.

 

 

 

p.s. I'd quit if they had admin access.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Theblacksheep

[Quackers]

Aparently there is an investigation into wireless in education as there has been a report from the NHS of a 40% increase in brain related disease i.e. tumours, aneurysm's etc in children between the ages of 8 - 14 due, they think in part to mobile phone 2.4Ghz technology .

Further investigation revealed that at least 23% of age groups 8 - 14 asked in a survey conducted by the NHS had also revealed they slept with their mobile phones under their pillows switched on.

 

My bet is its the aspartamne in a lot of drinks now (mainly diet drinks), chewing gum and the other 4200 products this poison is in. Brain tumours is the main thing studys with a non vested interest find this evil does, ie ones not funded by coca cola.

 

As for the original post, if it was me being forced into this, i would make disk protection from Windows Steady State a tool to try and reduce damage. But i see screens and power adaptors and keyboards and batterys being the expence.

[LeMarchand]

But i see screens and power adaptors and keyboards and batterys being the expence.

 

I forgot the way that keys "just fall off" .

[jcollings]

I forgot the way that keys "just fall off" .

 

Yes we get that now with our mobile classrooms. I've lost count of the times staff have argued with me that the keys fall off. In many years of using a laptop none of my keys have "fallen off"

[Pete10141748]

oh good god no (to answer the OP)

 

a laptop given to every pupil to use as they like?

I can't imagine a worse scenario to have to deal with on a daily basis...

 

If that was suggested here, I'd draw up a huge document,

detailling EVERY aspect of laptop lending/use/ownership/penalties/costs/replacements and so on, stacked full of policies for pupils to sign, parents to sign, rules and regulations......

 

hopefully that would put them off!

and if it didn't, at least there'd be a stack of stuff to help you

out agasint all of the inevitable problems that will come up witing

seconds of you giving the laptops out.

[LeMarchand]

What I find bizarre is that when heads from other schools visit to see how the scheme is going, they never bother to talk to me! Instead, they are given the "buzzword tour": inclusion... independent learning... ownership... responsibility (hah!)... etc etc.

 

Still, at least there seems to be some thought given to possibly replacing one class's machines with EEEs (I'm pushing for Linux ).

[User3204]

Ah, yes, I think another reason, I ran away from this last time was the support issue.

 

But I do remember that another company (who's name has escaped me), did a similar deal, whereby they would do all the laptop support issues. So the students had a phone number to call in case of issues. I think this is something you could arrange with the company you decided to buy the laptops from, although this would push the price up a little.

 

I had the Syscap guy call me up today, and he's sent some examples over to my email account.

 

See attachments, and, this is what he quoted as rough estimates:

 

 

Unit cost: 2 year scheme 3 year scheme

£200 £12.50 pcm £9.88 pcm

£400 £23.85 pcm £18.53pcm

£600 £35.20 pcm £27.18 pcm

 

Required parental contributions

 

Arrangement fee: £165 one off fee per school

 

(the formatting seems to have gone awol).

02 Syscap_LA_whitepaper_1.pdf

03a Syscap CS_StPauls_1.pdf

03b Syscap CS_Addington_4.pdf

[LeMarchand]

But I do remember that another company (who's name has escaped me), did a similar deal, whereby they would do all the laptop support issues. So the students had a phone number to call in case of issues.

 

That's what is supposed in the school I support. The very few parents who have tried to contact the so-called support line have been met with indifference/denial that they have any sort of support in place. Now I get all the problems, deal with those that I can, and feed any that I can't to the AO who wastes a lot of her hours on the phone being passed around various less than helpful people in an attempt to have them sort out the problems.

 

When they finally agree to do something, a lot of time is wasted as often it's just an easily fitted part (optical drive, keyboard, hard drive etc) that needs replacing - but rather than send a replacement with us returning the faulty part on receipt the whole laptop has to be sent back .

[7andY]

Umm...I'm not sure about all this negativity here! I feel I am here to advance our students' education, and if the decision is taken to issue laptops for students' school and private use, and a good case was made for this, then I would support it. The issues raised here are all good ones, but I feel a bit of positive thinking could make this work. Insist on Anti-virus, and anti-adware, which is regularly run by the Parent/Guardian. A fee for repairs not due to fair wear and tear, or laptop not fixed. An understanding that any software faults would be resolved by 'burn and re-build' - a ten minute job with Ghost and a USB stick - possibly even do-able by tech-savvy teachers, or even the students themselves - why not?? - it would solve the problem! I can see a case where a project like this would reduce the load on our Desktops, and relieve the maintenance requirement there. I also believe that this is going to be the way forward, whether we like it or not - so I'm starting by working out what my list of requirements is, before it's forced on me!! Oh, and I would insist they NOT be joined to our Domain - they can use our external home drive portal to get to their work (they can get an IP address from our DHCP server just fine), and printouts would have to done from a regular desktop, where we can keep an eye on it...

 

Cheers, 7&Y

[PEO]

Laptops for Kids is nothing but big nightmare. I have 5 in my office waiting for repair. damaged keybaords, screens smashed. software all screwed up.

 

it has taken a month for the insurance company and xma to get their act togeather. Im at the end of my teather with it all.

 

the basic idea is great but from a support side of things you have little control

[featured_spectre]

We do this with the eee laptops. We get the kids/guardians to pay £120 as a deposit, which covers warranty breakages / illegal software removal / virus removal etc etc. We stick the linux software on that comes with it rather than windows as quite simply, windows is far more prone to crashes etc etc. Anything non-warranty (IE malicious damage such as the screen breaking) is charged FULL price to the parents. They have to sign a contract agreeing to it, if they dont then the children dont get the laptop, its as simple as that. So far we have managed to charge £900 in breakages to parents and the ones that did it have not broken them since.