Laptops for students

[dbrown]

... Sounds exactly like some of the teachers where I work

... not to have to devote hours of valuable tech support time mopping up after the inevitable spillage...

 

I have some sympathy with you. It is better to avoid problems if you can. But I have two fundamental principles:

Firstly, as far as I am concerned, I am there to do what teachers want. Right or wrong, easy or hard (even impossible?) - I can advise, but in the end they ARE the boss.

Secondly, the hours of tech support time are not mine, but the school,s. They can use them for whatever they want - that's why they pay me.

I do think some of my time is wasted by poor policies and management, but teachers have a very difficult job and can't get everything right.

When they annoy me, I try to remember that if they get stressed, they've still got to spend the day working with 30 kids: better for the kids if I get the problems and work on them quietly on my own. And moneywise it's probably better to waste an hour of my time than have a teacher spend 10 minutes of their time.

 

Just like anyone else I don't always enjoy my job and doing jobs I think unnecessary or a waste is one of the bad parts. But when I worked somewhere IT was run by the IT "support", I enjoyed that a lot less.

 

 

... It's about doing the best job for ALL users ...

I have to agree with this, but still say, it is up to the teachers, not us,to decide what is best for all.

 

As far as laptops for pupils are concerned, if they understand the issues and likely problems, they can decide whether that's the best way to spend their money. If they don't "waste" it on laptops, they may well waste it on something else: just look around your school at what they else spend money on.

(I was looking for computers for a new computer room recently and worrying about a 20% difference in quotes, when I noticed that in the overall plan, the benches they sat on cost more than the computers and the refurbishment of the room cost 10x as much. I stopped worrying! They went way over budget, but no one worried.)

 

Don.

[Gibson335]

I have some sympathy with you. It is better to avoid problems if you can. But I have two fundamental principles:

Firstly, as far as I am concerned, I am there to do what teachers want. Right or wrong, easy or hard (even impossible?) - I can advise, but in the end they ARE the boss.

 

Again, I can't fully agree with that. As NM it's my job not only to advise but to ensure that others can see the sense of that advice, and regards money yes of course it's theirs but why let them waste it if they don't need to? Of course, senior management NOT teachers decide those sort of things in the end, and of course they will often go their own way, but I don't think I'd be doing my job properly if I just left it at 'well, it's their money to waste, why bother?' And especially if that waste of money also involves a waste of your time and the time of the technicians. And of course it's the school's time being wasted, but surely we'd all feel better doing something productive?

[ticker]

Just a question on the laptop for student front, the new head here is very keen to see this system in place and I am starting to form a plan of action of how we could implement this. My question is if you are expecting X number of pupils to log on at an one time in your school have you had to either upgrade or purchase new equipment such as servers and switches to cope with all this extra demand on the network?

Is their any one in the Preston/Lancashire area that has currently got a laptop for student scheme running in their school that would be willing for me to come and speak to you about how you have gone about this?

[Gibson335]

Just a question on the laptop for student front, the new head here is very keen to see this system in place and I am starting to form a plan of action of how we could implement this. My question is if you are expecting X number of pupils to log on at an one time in your school have you had to either upgrade or purchase new equipment such as servers and switches to cope with all this extra demand on the network?

Is their any one in the Preston/Lancashire area that has currently got a laptop for student scheme running in their school that would be willing for me to come and speak to you about how you have gone about this?

 

It depends on how you're set up to begin with, because if you have wireless already but then suddenly a large x number more clients attach, then of course you'll be losing bandwidth. If you have no existing provision for them, then yes you'll have to do a lot of planning to get it right.

 

The one thing I always do is never assume your senior management have thought of everything. I know from experience that whilst they may figure on laptops, perhaps even recharger trolleys, they seldom consider licensing - MS, AV, even some faculty stuff if it's not site-wide - and of course this can add tremendously to the overall cost.

 

Some might think it's not our job to point this out, but I'd argue it's one of the main reasons we're there.

[tmcd35]

At my last school there was (roughly) 1800 pupils with a 2:1 computer-pupil ratio. About half the computers (a little more than) where laptops. As I recall there was 4 Domain Controllers but all the students profiles and home drives where on 1 server.

 

The problem was never with the network infrastructure, switches and servers. The problem was always with the Laptop:Access Point. Typically 30:1 but we tried were ever possible to get it down to 15:1. Even at 15 laptops to 1 AP logons where hopelessly slow and network connections unreliable. We never did find a satisfactory solution.

 

I think the solution is probably managed access points and managed wireless switches but couldn't afford to rip out their exisiting WIFI network and start again.

[ticker]

It depends on how you're set up to begin with, because if you have wireless already but then suddenly a large x number more clients attach, then of course you'll be losing bandwidth. If you have no existing provision for them, then yes you'll have to do a lot of planning to get it right.

 

The one thing I always do is never assume your senior management have thought of everything. I know from experience that whilst they may figure on laptops, perhaps even recharger trolleys, they seldom consider licensing - MS, AV, even some faculty stuff if it's not site-wide - and of course this can add tremendously to the overall cost.

 

Some might think it's not our job to point this out, but I'd argue it's one of the main reasons we're there.

 

We have currently got a wireless network that supports small numbers of wireless laptops in english, SEN and science but it wouldn't be good enough to support an extra 900 users. been looking at the ruckus system. i ask about servers and switches because we are going to update these the next financal year but knowing how much school demands change year to year i might as well build into this the extra users. so instead of getting 2 main dc servers i might have to get 4 servers, if you see my point.

Edited January 9, 2009 by ticker

[ticker]

At my last school there was (roughly) 1800 pupils with a 2:1 computer-pupil ratio. About half the computers (a little more than) where laptops. As I recall there was 4 Domain Controllers but all the students profiles and home drives where on 1 server.

 

The problem was never with the network infrastructure, switches and servers. The problem was always with the Laptop:Access Point. Typically 30:1 but we tried were ever possible to get it down to 15:1. Even at 15 laptops to 1 AP logons where hopelessly slow and network connections unreliable. We never did find a satisfactory solution.

 

I think the solution is probably managed access points and managed wireless switches but couldn't afford to rip out their exisiting WIFI network and start again.

 

We will probably get rid of the current W/L system and put in a managed solution

[Gibson335]

We have currently got a wireless network that supports small numbers of wireless laptops in english, SEN and science but it wouldn't be good enough to support an extra 900 users. been looking at the ruckus system. i ask about servers and switches because we are going to update these the next financal year but knowing how much school demands change year to year i might as well build into this the extra users. so instead of getting 2 main dc servers i might have to get 4 servers, if you see my point.

 

To be honest, finances often dictate this anyway. I'm all for load-balancing as much as possible, and even have our user data spread over 4 separate servers. In your case, whilst providing a wireless facility for that many users is a considerable job, it does always end up back at your backbone and servers. My advice would be to spread the load as much as you can afford to. Don't forget, also, that your data is likely to increase significantly, so not only do you have to plan ahead for future growth regards storage, but also your backup procedures may need addressing.

[jcs808]

OK. We've just taken a delivery of about 250 HP 2133 netbooks, under the laptops for students scheme.

 

By my adding up that comes to about £400 per unit, somewhat expensive given that the only real addons are office 2007 and an RM support contract, and I'm not sure what is covered there.

 

The only envolvment I've had is a somewhat confused telephone conversation before Christmas with someone from our LEA, who was under the impression that I would know something about the scheme.

 

Anyway all that aside, my question to you guys is have any of your schools been given any computers under this scheme, and what's your involvement? Are the kids allowed to bring them into school and connect to the network?

 

I think that to be expected to support another 250 computers and all the problems that come with them is a bit a p**s take.

 

Thanks all.

Edited January 13, 2009 by jcs808
Spelling mistake

[The_Aiist_Cube]

I think most of the students wont want them anyway because they already have better ones:D.

[ranj]

You are quite right to pick up the degree of contempt for some of the previous posts in this thread where the implications are that IT support staff have the right to undermine strategic decisions. I fully agree with you in providing a system which can be managed and used by all. I would, however, be very surprised if you have not experienced those who do treat the school systems as their own personal fiefdom.

 

At the end of the day, we are paid to put vision, strategy and policy into workable practice (for all involved) and to move forward. Where decisions have been made to put laptops into the hands of children, it should be a clear strategic decision taken to move learning forward. I consider it my job to ensure that this CAN and DOES happen in a rational and manageable way. If children can not benefit from our work, we might as well not bother.

 

I competely agree with some of the comments made here, a lot of techie's are worried that introducing completely new ways of working with IT is going to bog them down. I agree that this can happen if not planned correctly but you need to give it a shot on a smaller scale and if it doesnt work at least you have tried it.

 

I am looking into the future at the school I work at and the vision I hope is once our VLE is being well used the hope is some pupils can bring in the laptops that have been given to them (laptop for pupils scheme) and use the wireless network to connect to the internet only to access the school VLE. Similar to how its done in universities where a laptop which isn't configured/setup by the school but the pupils get filtered/locked down capability to the internet (VLAN?) and the hope is we promote anytime anywhere learning.

 

Before any of this is possible, as a network manager I would want to ensure that the infrastructure is capable to handle such a load and the school will support me if they think it is out of our scope or they can not provide sufficient funds for an infrastructure project.

 

Does anyone know how this is done, I believe with Cisco products its done with the Network Access Control. We have an Extricom system.

 

As network managers we should try to facilitate these new technologies because students and staff are effectively our customers, without them we wouldn't have a job and I believe its an injustice to our students to not better prepare them for the world of work or college.

 

One issue I see with laptops coming into school is charging them. I know the school are looking to purchase school lockers and wanted to know if there any solutions out there where you can integrate Power sockets into lockers for laptops to be charged in. Someone tell me if this is a ridiculus idea.. but I struggling to find ways where you could charge laptops in school.

 

Remember these are not school laptops and are the pupils laptops, so the school won't be responsible if the laptops are not charged for use in a lesson or to be used in school, but to assist students it would be good to have a solution of some sort where students could charge their laptops in school.

 

Have other schools put some sort of provision in for students to go and use their laptops whilst charging or are there any other solutions out there for charging laptops (Not laptop trolleys or standalone charging areas). Any solutions with power and lockers integrated?

 

Thanks

Edited February 1, 2009 by ranj

[PEO]

LFP is a nice idea, but a really bad idea.

 

We've been boged down with laptop repairs, insurnce forms, telephone calls to have replacement modems ets etc. We have days were we could do with an additional person to take care of them.

 

to sum it all up, one big head ake that we could all do without IMO.

[ranj]

Our school communicated to all parents when we embarked on the scheme that the IT department in school will take NO responsibility with repairing laptops from this scheme.

 

We have had a few issues where we have had to replace some DOA but the message seems to have got across.

 

LFP scheme is bad idea if the school takes responsibility for repairing the machines, it then bogs down vital technician time. Just make SLT aware that this cannot happen unless they are willing to pay for an extra pair of hands or two.

[jenny_urey]

Just been in a meeting where the suggestion was made to give each of our 250 Year 10's a laptop to use in school on the wireless and at home.

 

Is anyone doing this at their school?

 

Personally I think the whole thing would be painful at every level - damage, speed of access etc, viruses, illegal software etc.

 

Answers on a postcard?

 

Ive seen this come up in schools before - have you done a survey with year 10 to find out how many students have access to the internet at home? This means that majority have a PC (unless using handheld technology) and have the opportunity to access school data via VLE if setup. This may be worth doing prior to letting them know of your thoughts for free laptops... you may also find that students may not want them. People have mentioned on the forum about students breaking them, porn and viruses... though safety is also very important as a student carrying a laptop walking passed an opportune adult or older kids is an easy target... a damaged laptop is easier to mend than a traumatised or injured student.............. I certainly would not allow my daughter (yr 10) to take a laptop back and forth on her school bus.

 

Ive also heard stories of school who have laptops after getting the budget - then not able to give them away..

[jenny_urey]

USB Pens.. much more cost effective, less downtime for the techies concerned about the 'technical aspects', safer for the students keeping parents happy and less cost keeping bursar and head happy! Oh... and they can no doubt use them in their fully decked out multi USB, game friendly, 4Gb Ram, 500Gb laptops they may already have!