cctv in a serverless school

[jblackburnHWGA]

Hi guys, do any of you have a "serverless" cctv solution? Does such a thing exist?

 

I have a new school being built and we're looking at internal cctv which will mostly used to track incidents. I'd love a serverless solution to match my serverless server room.

My googling and asking suppliers makes me thing such a thing doesn't exist or isn't worth it.

[DalekSec]

Is an NVR technically a server? We are serverless here but have 2 NVRs

 

Dahua, Unifi etc all have rack mountable NVRs or Standalone. Just need a lockable office/cupboard to put it in. Personally i wouldn't like a cloud based NVR, can't be cheap for storage alone!

[chazzy2501]

I was about to suggest dropcam but boy am I out of date! bought in 2014 and google are killing it in April.

[IT_CoffeeNeeded]

I am sure there is a cloud based CCTV system, but this would be a most costly long term solution compared to purchasing an NVR with CCTV cameras (Which most Schools have I think)

 

Also if the CCTV footage is stored off site you will probably need to complete a DPIA.

[lmrogers]

Verkada have a really nice solution without an NVR but the pricing is quite high. Also apparently Meraki have one as well but I was never sent any pricing for it.

[jblackburnHWGA]

I wouldn't personally consider an NVR a server but i don't consider the computer i have DNS and DHCP running off a server either

I think we're after a cloud fronted reachable NVR without the need to punch a hole in the firewall. Best of both worlds kind of thing. One i don't need to manage would be great but it'll end up with me anyway.

 

DalekSec what cctv are you using out of interest?

[3s-gtech]

There's obviously consumer cloud-based stuff, but from a commercial perspective I think the cumulative bandwidth requirements and security/DP aspects make this pretty muddy. It may be possible, but even if we were serverless (and we're not, we have ALL the servers) I'd still have an onsite box for this.

[psydii]

We have a serverless CCTV system, but you wont be able to buy it or any replacement components after November so I shall not be naming names.

 

Our CCTV system consumes about 720MBit/s.

 

How do we manage it? Well the cameras write out to "appliances" clustered around the site.

 

Not servers. Nope. It's serverless you see. (seriously, that was basically the pitch)

 

 

I'm not sure a true "serverless" solution is viable once you start to have more than a couple of dozen cameras, and you have a requirement to keep footage for more than a day or two, even if you only record on motion and each camera writes to its own local storage.

[ITGuyNW]

Verkada however I'd be concerned about cost and bandwidth

[psydii]

I wouldn't personally consider an NVR a server but i don't consider the computer i have DNS and DHCP running off a server either

 

Denying facts to make reality fit the collective delusion is a time honoured strategic management technique.

 

I benefit from / perpetrate some delusions myself, so honestly no criticism.

[DalekSec]

I wouldn't personally consider an NVR a server but i don't consider the computer i have DNS and DHCP running off a server either

I think we're after a cloud fronted reachable NVR without the need to punch a hole in the firewall. Best of both worlds kind of thing. One i don't need to manage would be great but it'll end up with me anyway.

 

DalekSec what cctv are you using out of interest?

 

We have 2 currently (long story)

 

Unifi - Easy to use and setup, cheaper

Dahua - Security Company setup, slower but has way more features.

[jblackburnHWGA]

We have 2 currently (long story)

 

Unifi - Easy to use and setup, cheaper

Dahua - Security Company setup, slower but has way more features.

 

I tend to steer clear of Unifi Dahua looks quite good and would be easy to install in house.

 

Konica Minolta quoted me for a system. To install, £75k. It had fancy AI and stuff so we can catch the sneaky vapours and the behind the hut fights.

 

The general census is there isn't really a serverless cctv solution mostly due to cost and available options. Maybe one day.

 

I'm open to suggestions of cctv solutions that have on site nvrs if anyone wants to share what they currently use. The more in house setup friendly it is the better.

[lmrogers]

I've had good success previously with Synology Surveillance Station and Hik cameras. That worked out to be pretty cost effective and we didn't have that many issues with it.

[jblackburnHWGA]

Does anyone use Paxton cameras? We're having Paxton throughout, external and internal doors. A keyless school even though there will be some doors with a key.

Just thinking if we have the door access then the cctv might be a good option.

 

Imrogers we a few Hik cameras now and an NVR for them. I agree they're actually very good for the price and ease of use. Are there any issues around using HIK currently?

[lmrogers]

Does anyone use Paxton cameras? We're having Paxton throughout, external and internal doors. A keyless school even though there will be some doors with a key.

Just thinking if we have the door access then the cctv might be a good option.

 

Imrogers we a few Hik cameras now and an NVR for them. I agree they're actually very good for the price and ease of use. Are there any issues around using HIK currently?

 

Depends who you talk to. I've just done a bit of a review of our current CCTV and spoken to various installers. There are a couple of different views.

 

1. Using Hik cameras is fine as long as you use a different NVR.

2. Using Hik is fine if you have a decent firewall and can block any in and out traffic from the WAN so the NVR can't call home as such.

 

Legislation as it currently stands doesn't stop the use of it in schools so a lot of installers are still installing it as it is really cost effective. Some installers have moved to using hik cameras and 3rd party NVRs. Others have moved completely away from it.

[JRA]

Denying facts to make reality fit the collective delusion is a time honoured strategic management technique.

I benefit from / perpetrate some delusions myself, so honestly no criticism.

 

Well I mean you could also deny you have them, then make yourself delusion-free! Management tip there.

 

 

I tend to steer clear of Unifi Dahua looks quite good and would be easy to install in house.

Konica Minolta quoted me for a system. To install, £75k. It had fancy AI and stuff so we can catch the sneaky vapours and the behind the hut fights.

The general census is there isn't really a serverless cctv solution mostly due to cost and available options. Maybe one day.

I'm open to suggestions of cctv solutions that have on site nvrs if anyone wants to share what they currently use. The more in house setup friendly it is the better.

 

I have some (mostly) Dahuas on a non-routing VLAN, some old Lilins also. Shinobi (Linux btw) does the storage, scrubs footage after a month (in before ICO) and it just records RTSP streams really with one NIC in the cameras VLAN and one in an accessible VLAN. Rpisurv (Raspberry Pi/Linux again) does for any live viewers (these record nothing) but not many of those around, again just spits out RTSP streams. No fancy AI stuff on the go but it is capable of more than I do with it. Been flawless since setup really.

 

I was, before going all home-brew, looking at the Synology solution. Reports from out there in the world did speak very highly of it.

[mavhc]

What does serverless mean? It seems a pointless, there's always a server. What's in your server room if not servers?

[jblackburnHWGA]

Depends who you talk to. I've just done a bit of a review of our current CCTV and spoken to various installers. There are a couple of different views.

 

1. Using Hik cameras is fine as long as you use a different NVR.

2. Using Hik is fine if you have a decent firewall and can block any in and out traffic from the WAN so the NVR can't call home as such.

 

Legislation as it currently stands doesn't stop the use of it in schools so a lot of installers are still installing it as it is really cost effective. Some installers have moved to using hik cameras and 3rd party NVRs. Others have moved completely away from it.

 

Thanks Imrogers, really use to information to know

[Oaktech]

The definition of serverless according to my Trust is no on site Windows domain.

 

My 'serverless' school still has a Unifi Cloudkey, NVR, Xibo server, police cyber alarm and phone map servers on site.

[Chris_Cook]

We also use Synology with a variety of camera manufacturers (Hilook/hikvision, Arecont, Axis, Sony, Synology, and a selection of no-name analog DVRs).

 

Hik cameras have great image quality - I've not seen many other cameras come close unless you spend a lot more money. At least not from the more acceptable NDAA approved brands

 

The synology cameras are good and integrate really well. They are a bit more pricey, but should auto update the firmware from the NAS / DVR. The resolution is lower on paper, but good enough for general usage. The camera settings can be done from the synology software without logging into each camera directly.

 

Some systems now support edge recording which might be an option. This can be for redundancy or as the primary storage. You would still need some sort of central software to access unless you only have a couple of cameras.

[PotNoodleTech]

Sometimes the word serverless is not the best way of doing something. Sometimes doing it for the sake of it is not the best way of doing it.

 

I guess it depends how much you trust these far eastern manufacturers cloud systems.....I dont trust any of them it's been proven time and time again that manufacturers secretly leak as much data back home as possible I mean even giganto companies like sony have been caught out more than once and if they try it on imagine what all the smaller companies try on too!

[Net-Ctrl]

Verkada has been mentioned a few times - if you would like to understand their cloud based solution a little more - send me a PM. We can run demos, sent out trial kit and discuss the portfolio.

 

Price is higher than some others mentioned, like Hik, but the solution won't need NVR/DVR, comes with 10 year warranty, unlimited cloud storage. We have been design and installing CCTV solutions for 15 years and were really impressed with both the solution itself, and management.

 

In regards to bandwidth - When accessed remotely, a video proxies through the cloud and is cached to speed retrieval times and playback. This approach enables large numbers of simultaneous viewers without negatively impacting the bandwidth of your local area network (LAN)

[Norphy]

My reservations with Verkada are threefold:

 

1) Their salespeople are absolutely relentless. They do not leave you alone. Hopefully, however, that's mitigated if you go through a reseller.

2) They follow the same licensing model as Meraki so if you decide you don't want to pay for licensing anymore, your equipment stops working. One of their founders was the COO of Meraki, so I suppose that's not surprising.

3) They had a pretty significant security breach a couple of years back, where it was reported that hackers had access to more than 150,000 cameras from all over the world.

[mavhc]

There's an easy way to stop your cctv footage leaking on the internet, stop uploading it to the internet

[psydii]

 

Legislation as it currently stands doesn't stop the use of it in schools so a lot of installers are still installing it as it is really cost effective.

 

The clause(s) that would have blocked further installations (on Human Rights grounds) and the removal of previously installed equipment across the public sector (on national security grounds) were voted down in the second reading of the bill.

 

They, I believe, are still banned and to be removed from sensitive sites, the definition of which has been clarified (and to paraphrase: if your site handles material that should be officially marked SECRET, then you need to be removing Hikvision et al.), though this is separate to the Procurement act.

 

That said a National Security Unit for Procurement has been defined and is to be part of the body that assess the list of firms to be debarred under the more relaxed set of rules that actually became law. So Hikvision aren't quite in the clear just yet, but the case for them getting debarred is massively weaker in the Act than it was in the Bill just a year ago.