Wi-Fi Replacement

[gpjt]

I'm currently looking and have received quotations on a full site replacement being as our existing solution isn't fit for purpose anymore and we only have 9 access points to cover a school with over 550 students.

Quotes that have come in so far range from 22 - 26 access points and will hopefully give us a comprehensive full site coverage. Initially we have a site survey done to ensure that we could supply proposers with the full information they needed.

 

The 3 quotes we've received (waiting on a 4th) have offered:

 

Cambium XV21x/XV3 Bundle (Wi-Fi 6)

Arruba 2930F Switches/AP 505 (Wi-Fi 6)

Unify (chasing model and spec)

 

Does anyone have any experience with the above solutions? I'm looking for any information on how you've found the systems perform for you and would welcome any comments/advice.

 

TIA

[speakercon]

We currently have Unify (50 Waps) and it does everything we need it too. You can pick the U6-PRO's up for about £130 each and it's very easy to setup and manage using the (virtual) controller. Edited January 27, 2023 by speakercon

[mavhc]

Just installed Cambium, xv2-21x for £215 each, ex vat, for 28 APs

 

You can use their free cloud service, run it yourself, or pay more for more features.

 

Set up guest wifi with vouchers on one vlan, only problem is their doesn't seem to be a user level that can only make vouchers, there's read only and user who can do everything.

 

If you want full speed for your APs you'd need 2.5Gb PoE, I've just stayed with 1Gb and the cheaper APs

[Oaktech]

3 schools on Unifi... 500 students across 2 Schools on a single L3 routed VLAN and a flat 650 students school.

 

DO NOT get the Lite or HD versions unless you are puting an AP in every room. The coverage is awful. Go for the Pro or LR versions. At the 500 student school we've replaced a 12 unit Ruckus setup with 35 AP-AC-HD and it's still got holes we're patching as budget allows. We only didn't go Pro due to supply dificulties.

 

The other school replaced a 20 unit Meru setup with 25 AP-AC-PRO and the coverage is excellent and it does everything we want.

[ITGuyNW]

We've just had Cambium installed too, not sure if same model or higher.

 

Had no complaints so far, does class full of laptops with ease. Guest wifi works well.

 

The only thing I've seen is older laptops (hp elitebook 840 g1, Dell latitude E5450) struggle to connect to it if also using wifi-direct/searching for printers, so there must be a driver or cambium issue somewhere but we seldom use those laptops now so I've not looked into it proper.

[Aprice]

The Aruba would be my preference, we've got 84 of the AP505s at once of our sites with 2930M switches. Rock solid. We don't have Aruba Central at this one, just don't need it.

 

Also have a site with about 30 of the Unifi U6 Pros, which do the job at the end of the day. That said the price difference between the 505s and the U6 pros is less than you think. (provided you go to a propper supplier)

[psydii]

We have a slightly older (2017) Aruba IAP setup. Its great, and all support issues are dealt with promptly. Just received a replacement AP last week, and a couple of weeks ago had a bit of a glitch with airwave and that was resolved promptly. This support and warranty coverage was all included in the initial price.

 

We regularly have 800+ devices on the wlan, broad mix of staff laptops, shared trolley laptops, 1:1 dfe stock laptops, iPads, BYOD and hundreds of student phones (that absolutely can't be in school can they, because you're not allowed to have a mobile in school are you, dear student...)

[Net-Ctrl]

Hello - just be mindful that the survey you have completed will only be correct for the AP/solution used to survey.

 

Ideally, you would want a survey to be completed, at minimum a predictive survey, with the proposed AP(s) to confirm the location and count. Too many APs and you could congest your air, too few and you'll have blackspots.

 

Aruba, Cambium and Unifi will all behave differently. Also, consider density in areas - review the AP maps coming through. Ideally, you don't want a single AP doing any more than 3 classrooms, 2 is usually a preference, but it will of course depend on your build environment and user load. Consider PoE budgets in areas across your sites as well.

 

If you wanted to consider another brand, there is also Ruckus, that we can supply - but at this point you may be happy with what you're already looking at.

[Chris_Cook]

We've had Cambium for a while now, and its a great solution. Creating guest vouchers is dead easy - you just export as PDF and send to the printer.

 

We are also looking into options for other schools now, and Cambium + Aruba is on our list along with Meraki.

 

When we last looked at Unifi I think there was a limit on how many SSIDs you could have. Not sure if that's still a problem. Our unifi switches have been rock solid though.

 

We've also had/have Ruckus at schools. Its been a solid solution. The main issue we've had on older installs is getting matching APs that support the firmware of the controller and the other APs. Having to do a mail merge to generate guest vouchers is a pain, but is manageable.

 

I'd also really recommend a good site survey. No matter how good the solution is, you can end up with dead spots. Also consider your buildings walls and furniture. If you try and go to shallow getting signal through a wall, even a thin wall can be quite a problem. Also if people put lockers in the way, that's caused us headaches before.

[mavhc]

We've just had Cambium installed too, not sure if same model or higher.

 

Had no complaints so far, does class full of laptops with ease. Guest wifi works well.

 

The only thing I've seen is older laptops (hp elitebook 840 g1, Dell latitude E5450) struggle to connect to it if also using wifi-direct/searching for printers, so there must be a driver or cambium issue somewhere but we seldom use those laptops now so I've not looked into it proper.

 

I'd guess searching for printers is multicast, did you disable that?

[chris11256]

We've had an Aruba installation since 2019(36 IAP-315's) and they've been rock solid, pretty much set and forget, besides a firmware update every several months. We have one in every classroom, and two in the hall & dining area. This supports school laptops(approx. 130 across the Library & bookable trolleys) and then easily 400-500 BYOD devices a day.

 

Also have Aruba switches, in 2021 we replaced ancient 2510 & 2910's with new CX6200F in stacks, and they've been great as well. They do have more of a Cisco type CLI, but that's easier for me personally.

Edited January 27, 2023 by chris11256

[jamesrhart]

We replaced our WiFi about 6 months ago and stuck with Meraki for the replacement, Juniper were also strong contenders.

 

We have around 180 APs and around 650 students but we’ve got a large site and some old buildings with thick walls and then new ones with insulation that kills WiFi.

 

We went 1:1 Surface in September and everything worked perfectly for us.

[FN-GM]

In my previous position, we installed hundreds of Unifi Nano HD access points across 20 sites. At the time Wifi 6 wasn't a thing. They worked great and had no issues at all! Worked much better than the Cisco junk we ripped out. I would recommend running your controller on a Linux virtual machine, on Windows it runs in the user profile space.

 

The lite versions didn't use a POE standard, so the vast majority of switches couldn't power them without injectors. Not an issue with Pro or HD. This may have changed though, worth keeping an eye on this.

 

 

 

DO NOT get the Lite or HD versions unless you are puting an AP in every room. The coverage is awful. Go for the Pro or LR versions.

 

Has something changed in the new offering? When I last purchased Unifi the HD (Nano HD) were superior to the Pro (AC Pro) version. We had a single site using AC Pro and changed them to Nano HD to match the other sites and service improved.

 

 

When we last looked at Unifi I think there was a limit on how many SSIDs you could have.

 

WIFI 6 has a limit of 8. Although it is best practise with any WIFI deployment to keep the number of SSID to a minimum. I find people sometimes waste their SSID capacity, you can combine multiple networks into 1 SSID and then assign the VLAN on Radius authentication rules. For example 1 SSID could do "corporate" machines, staff & student BYOD but all be in different VLANS.

Edited January 28, 2023 by FN-GM

[Cw2k]

Aruba 505 have the built in virtual controller so you don’t need to run a separate control (with the current Aruba OS 8 lts). You get limited limited lifetime warranty (usually end of sale + 5 years).

Can be managed by Aruba central but that is an extra cost and overkill for most. Currently Aruba os 10 doesn’t support virtual controller so needs Aruba central). No suggestion that they will eol os 8 anytime soon)

 

Aruba 2930F have same limited lifetime warrant.

 

If you want Aruba ask you supplier to go for special bid pricing, edu discount can be significant. You have access to support while it is a supported device. You can pay for additional support but for many that is not needed.

 

 

UniFi have 1 year warranty, they tend to keep update going for a long time after that. You need to run a separate controller.

[XiJ]

All unifi’s bow use standard 48v PoE specifications. (The cross over was a mess, but that’s another story)

 

In our primary’s we’ve gone one per room on the lites - I’d agree range isn’t quite as good on the Wi-Fi 6 models. But still cheap enough to put in one per room to adjust for this.

 

We’ve never gone wrong with unifi tbh. Multi sites run from a Linux based controller.

[mavhc]

WIFI 6 has a limit of 8

 

Do you have a source for that? Can't see any limit

[FN-GM]

Do you have a source for that? Can't see any limit

 

 

https://evanmccann.net/blog/2021/11/unifi-advanced-wi-fi-settings#:~:text=UniFi%20APs%20have%20a%20limit,or%20eight%20dual%2Dband%20SSIDs.

 

 

UniFi APs have a limit of either 4 or 8 SSIDs per band, per AP group. Older models like the AC Wave 1 UAP-AC-Lite only support up to 4 per band. Most of the AC Wave 2 “HD” and Wi-Fi 6 models can have up to 8. This means you can have up to eight 2.4 GHz and up to eight 5 GHz networks, or eight dual-band SSIDs.

[RobD]

The more SSIDs you use, the more management frames it requires, which increases channel utilization meaning wifi 6 cant do its OFDM, would be my guess.

[mavhc]

https://evanmccann.net/blog/2021/11/unifi-advanced-wi-fi-settings#:~:text=UniFi%20APs%20have%20a%20limit,or%20eight%20dual%2Dband%20SSIDs.

 

Oh, a UniFi limitation, thought you meant the Wifi specification.

 

https://revolutionwifi.blogspot.com/p/ssid-overhead-calculator.html has the maths, basically increase your lowest connection speed (12Mbps is a probably good) , and maybe increase your beacon interval if you have a lot of SSIDs, default is 100

[psydii]

Wifi6e does additional funky things that make this even harder to generalize accurately... https://www.numerousnetworks.co.uk/noversight/optimising-wi-fi-6e-networks-for-apple-devices/

[mavhc]

6GHz in Europe is only half as good as the rest of the world

 

 

 

Another post that explains RNR https://www.extremenetworks.com/extreme-networks-blog/the-off-road-trail-to-6-ghz-ap-discovery/

 

Basically don't scan 6GHz, scan 2.4 and 5, and get a list of what 6GHz networks are nearby (ie on the same AP)

[RedwayNetworks_Michael]

I'm currently looking and have received quotations on a full site replacement being as our existing solution isn't fit for purpose anymore and we only have 9 access points to cover a school with over 550 students.

Quotes that have come in so far range from 22 - 26 access points and will hopefully give us a comprehensive full site coverage. Initially we have a site survey done to ensure that we could supply proposers with the full information they needed.

 

The 3 quotes we've received (waiting on a 4th) have offered:

 

Cambium XV21x/XV3 Bundle (Wi-Fi 6)

Arruba 2930F Switches/AP 505 (Wi-Fi 6)

Unify (chasing model and spec)

 

Does anyone have any experience with the above solutions? I'm looking for any information on how you've found the systems perform for you and would welcome any comments/advice.

 

TIA

 

Hi,

In regards to the vendors you are looking at i work alot with Cambium and also Aruba (less Aruba due to stock issues)

 

The Cambium solution i find great as a budget option, i dont call it a cheap option as it has full cloud management and also lifetime support for free so no licences required.

There is a licence option at the moment for their licenced version MSX. If you go with this option take the promo as works out cheaper for the 3 years licence for free,

 

Aruba is one of the bigger players like Meraki. Personally if going the cloud option id go Meraki as its just much more user friendly than Central.

Also with Aruba i would look at the newer CX range switches rather than the 2930F range as all switches are moving to the new CX platform so the older switches are going EOL.

 

Unify - i dont recommend at all, if for home use or small office maybe however i wouldnt put it into any schools i help as if there is any issues there is no vendor support for help. Its attractive as its cheap and some people do like it but thats usually before any issues.

 

I hope this helps,

[Primus]

Hi,

In regards to the vendors you are looking at i work alot with Cambium and also Aruba (less Aruba due to stock issues)

 

The Cambium solution i find great as a budget option, i dont call it a cheap option as it has full cloud management and also lifetime support for free so no licences required.

There is a licence option at the moment for their licenced version MSX. If you go with this option take the promo as works out cheaper for the 3 years licence for free,

 

Aruba is one of the bigger players like Meraki. Personally if going the cloud option id go Meraki as its just much more user friendly than Central.

Also with Aruba i would look at the newer CX range switches rather than the 2930F range as all switches are moving to the new CX platform so the older switches are going EOL.

 

Unify - i dont recommend at all, if for home use or small office maybe however i wouldnt put it into any schools i help as if there is any issues there is no vendor support for help. Its attractive as its cheap and some people do like it but thats usually before any issues.

 

I hope this helps,

 

Unifi is absolutely fine in schools, we have it in all of ours for switching and all but one of ours for WiFi (ideally the last one will be getting it for WiFi too), it's so cheap you can afford to have cold spares and we've never had any issues with it.

 

Out of 162 APs and 76 switches we've had only 1 AP die (someone threw water over the floor above and it came through so definitely not the AP's fault) and 1 switch die (died within 2 weeks of going in so I suspect the PSU was inherently faulty). Otherwise it's been rock solid and very cost effective.

 

When we looked after only 1 school we always had at least 1 cold spare AP and 1 cold spare switch, now we're looking after a MAT we've upped those figures but not massively.

[RedwayNetworks_Michael]

Unifi is absolutely fine in schools, we have it in all of ours for switching and all but one of ours for WiFi (ideally the last one will be getting it for WiFi too), it's so cheap you can afford to have cold spares and we've never had any issues with it.

 

Out of 162 APs and 76 switches we've had only 1 AP die (someone threw water over the floor above and it came through so definitely not the AP's fault) and 1 switch die (died within 2 weeks of going in so I suspect the PSU was inherently faulty). Otherwise it's been rock solid and very cost effective.

 

When we looked after only 1 school we always had at least 1 cold spare AP and 1 cold spare switch, now we're looking after a MAT we've upped those figures but not massively.

 

As i mentioned some people like it such as yourself and like you say you have not had any major issues with it before.

 

I answered based on my experience everyone will always have an opinion on what they use, im glad it works well for you

[Primus]

As i mentioned some people like it such as yourself and like you say you have not had any major issues with it before.

 

I answered based on my experience everyone will always have an opinion on what they use, im glad it works well for you

 

We've been running it for years across multiple sites with multiple different SKUs, it's not like there's some glaring issue we've not come up against yet.

 

Every school/MAT should do its due diligence and select products that best meet their requirements including budget.