Wi-Fi Replacement

[mavhc]

You didn't come across the glaring issue where they spent a year trying to get a working firmware for their Nano AP?

[Primus]

You didn't come across the glaring issue where they spent a year trying to get a working firmware for their Nano AP?

 

We have Nano HD APs, we've had no issue with them.

 

I knew someone would come along with their "gotcha" - when you can find an alternative brand that has never had any kind of a similar issue then let me know - you can't and they all cost a lot more.

[mavhc]

Have they though?

 

So, let's compare, how much per AP, how many years is it supported for, any other costs?

 

I paid £250 per AP for Cambium XV2-21X, 1Gbps, Wifi 6 5GHz 2x2, 2.4 GHz 2x2

 

No ongoing costs.

 

End of Software dev: 3 years from End of Sale date, although critical bugs will be fixed

End of Support: 5 years from EOS

[Primus]

Have they though?

 

So, let's compare, how much per AP, how many years is it supported for, any other costs?

 

I paid £250 per AP for Cambium XV2-21X, 1Gbps, Wifi 6 5GHz 2x2, 2.4 GHz 2x2

 

No ongoing costs.

 

End of Software dev: 3 years from End of Sale date, although critical bugs will be fixed

End of Support: 5 years from EOS

 

Every single manfucturer has issues from time to time - that is a fact.

 

U6-Pro - £148.10 although that's 4x4 so the even cheaper U6-Lite at £100.80 is a better like for like example. No ongoing costs.

 

If you'd like to put a warranty on it you certainly can beyond the standard 1 year - we prefer to keep cold spares - still way, way cheaper.

 

For every XV2-21X you're deploying I can buy 2.5 of the equivalent Unifi AP - multiply that out across a reasonable size deployment and the difference is clear:

100 x XV2-21X - £25,000

100 x U6-Lite - £10,080

[mavhc]

Every single manfucturer has issues from time to time - that is a fact.

 

U6-Pro - £148.10 although that's 4x4 so the even cheaper U6-Lite at £100.80 is a better like for like example. No ongoing costs.

 

If you'd like to put a warranty on it you certainly can beyond the standard 1 year - we prefer to keep cold spares - still way, way cheaper.

 

For every XV2-21X you're deploying I can buy 2.5 of the equivalent Unifi AP - multiply that out across a reasonable size deployment and the difference is clear:

100 x XV2-21X - £25,000

100 x U6-Lite - £10,080

 

Excellent, do you know how long they're supported for?

 

Anyone got details for other systems?

[Primus]

The 95 x AC-Pro I put in in 2018 are still getting firmware updates...

[mavhc]

In Dec 2019 they announced some products were EOL in March 2021, so 1.25 years warning.

 

https://community.ui.com/questions/Select-UniFi-Access-Point-AP-Models-Obsoletion-Date-March-1-2021/65487283-ce9d-49f4-85b9-b6aa54659ef7

 

Also they don't appear to have a page with a lifecycle policy, and if you upgrade the controller they completely break.

 

Not sure when, for example, the UAP-Pro was sold from/to, but I see it on skinflint listed from Dec 2013 until about Nov 2018

 

So max of 7.25 years, min of 2.5 years

[Frodo_Baggins]

Don't know about Cambium's newer equipment but the Xirrus X2 and H2 AP's haven't been the best, swapping out for UniFi in Feb and a lot better (also had some older Xirrus frisbees at another school and again not great, don't get me started on their support...)

[Primus]

They did announce some products were going EOL but those products were not exactly new, they'd been available for quite a long time at that point. You can still use them provided you use the correct LTS version of the controller, obviously you're no longer getting firmware updates at that point and I'm not sure if there's any security issues with the existing firmware - I don't think I've seen anything.

 

I've had much longer out of those AC-Pros than I have out of an inherited Cisco system that was fitted to a new build and already EoL at that point.

[RedwayNetworks_Michael]

Don't know about Cambium's newer equipment but the Xirrus X2 and H2 AP's haven't been the best, swapping out for UniFi in Feb and a lot better (also had some older Xirrus frisbees at another school and again not great, don't get me started on their support...)

 

Yes the Xirrus stuff i dont recommend and totally agree.

 

The newer Cambium stuff is much better, if you would like to try just let me know and im sure i can get one sent out to you to play with. Of course if already made the decision to go Unifi it might not be worthwhile now but offer is there.

Anyone still using the Xirrus i would be recommending to move away now to either the Cambium platform or another solution.

 

I do agree with you on the Xirrus.

[psydii]

Wow I did briefly once wonder what happened to xirrus. I mean, once the Propogate/AutoCell stuff was out in the wild (initially through licencing deals, but later with Cisco getting the patents invalidated) products like xirrus arrays and Meru SCA were dead-ends.

[RedwayNetworks_Michael]

They did announce some products were going EOL but those products were not exactly new, they'd been available for quite a long time at that point. You can still use them provided you use the correct LTS version of the controller, obviously you're no longer getting firmware updates at that point and I'm not sure if there's any security issues with the existing firmware - I don't think I've seen anything.

 

I've had much longer out of those AC-Pros than I have out of an inherited Cisco system that was fitted to a new build and already EoL at that point.

 

I think alot is down to design, Cisco and Unifi are worlds apart if really looking like for like, admittedly worlds apart on price too but it all comes down to what you want i suppose.

 

For example alot of Meraki users like it due to the simplicity and ease of troubleshooting and to manage the wider network on the single dashboard.

 

I find alot go Cambium to not be stuck with ongoing licence costs but with the assurance they have the support.

 

Unifi i find the more technical guys dont mind as they enjoy spending time deep diving into troubleshooting.

 

I suppose its all down to preference and Budgets, if have Unifi then usually its due to no budgets and taking the Cheap option. But again everyone has there own reasons i suppose.

[DGardiner]

Also they don't appear to have a page with a lifecycle policy, and if you upgrade the controller they completely break.

 

The controller is replacable/upgradable i know recently i had a controller die and restored a cloud backup and continued as usual. Presumably the upgrade proccess is the same as the controller is just running the same app but more horsepower in the box for the extra functionality

[Primus]

The controller is replacable/upgradable i know recently i had a controller die and restored a cloud backup and continued as usual. Presumably the upgrade proccess is the same as the controller is just running the same app but more horsepower in the box for the extra functionality

 

I must have missed that odd bit of the original comment by May - I keep our controller updated, have done for years, never once had it break.

 

It's also not a traditional controller, most services work even if the controller is offline, it's mainly if you're using things like the guest portal that require it to be constantly on.

[Primus]

I think alot is down to design, Cisco and Unifi are worlds apart if really looking like for like, admittedly worlds apart on price too but it all comes down to what you want i suppose.

 

For example alot of Meraki users like it due to the simplicity and ease of troubleshooting and to manage the wider network on the single dashboard.

 

I find alot go Cambium to not be stuck with ongoing licence costs but with the assurance they have the support.

 

Unifi i find the more technical guys dont mind as they enjoy spending time deep diving into troubleshooting.

 

I suppose its all down to preference and Budgets, if have Unifi then usually its due to no budgets and taking the Cheap option. But again everyone has there own reasons i suppose.

 

The very expensive Cisco kit that was put into a new build school by a supplier that had the top level Cisco certification but was EoL before it even went in? Yeah worlds apart from the much cheaper Unifi kit we've ended up putting in that is actually supported and will be for quite some time to come as it's the latest U6 Pros.

 

There are clear differences between products but to suggest that my preference for Unifi is due to me having no budget is laughably out of touch - I have healthy budgets but I manage them and spend where appropriate, not just because of a brand name.

 

Suppliers have a very clear incentive to push the more expensive options...

[DGardiner]

I must have missed that odd bit of the original comment by May - I keep our controller updated, have done for years, never once had it break.

 

It's also not a traditional controller, most services work even if the controller is offline, it's mainly if you're using things like the guest portal that require it to be constantly on.

 

If youre using cloud keys gen2 the batteries have a habbit of swelling up and killing the POE. a propper usb-c charger does boot them back up though, its quite particular: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B017VXARME/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 this did it for us.

 

Wish theyd just remove the battery ive lost 3 now across 10 installs over the last 3-4 years, the recent cloud backup stuff though has gone a decent way to aleviate it though

[Primus]

If youre using cloud keys gen2 the batteries have a habbit of swelling up and killing the POE. a propper usb-c charger does boot them back up though, its quite particular: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B017VXARME/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 this did it for us.

 

Wish theyd just remove the battery ive lost 3 now across 10 installs over the last 3-4 years, the recent cloud backup stuff though has gone a decent way to aleviate it though

 

The beauty of Unifi is you have multiple options for running it. We run it in a VM - there you even have choices - Windows or Linux. We run one controller and have all 5 schools in it as separate sites - makes managing it mega easy.

[DGardiner]

Suppliers have a very clear incentive to push the more expensive options...

One of my go to suppliers used to ring all the time... cisco/meraki are in today can you spare 15 mins to talk to them cause i get a commission even if you dont buy... so yeah.

[DGardiner]

The beauty of Unifi is you have multiple options for running it. We run it in a VM - there you even have choices - Windows or Linux. We run one controller and have all 5 schools in it as separate sites - makes managing it mega easy.

I never touched the multi site stuff, we always just went with the cloud keys for ease of deployment, and its a cheap CCTV if needed.

[mavhc]

I must have missed that odd bit of the original comment by May - I keep our controller updated, have done for years, never once had it break.

 

It's also not a traditional controller, most services work even if the controller is offline, it's mainly if you're using things like the guest portal that require it to be constantly on.

 

Their EOL page said the EOL products will stop working if you upgrade the controller software

[RedwayNetworks_Michael]

One of my go to suppliers used to ring all the time... cisco/meraki are in today can you spare 15 mins to talk to them cause i get a commission even if you dont buy... so yeah.

 

I can say with extreme confidence this is not how all suppliers work and from reading this it sounds like a young salesman thats been constantly pressured and as you say pushing vendors rather than solutions.

 

I mean ive mentioned Meraki and Cambium, Cambium is hardly the more expensive vendors.

 

If someone wanted to buy Unifi from me then fine but we wouldn't support the unifi as there is no vendor support so it could bite us in the bum as a supplier.

 

Everyone has different requirements and as a supplier i see it as my job to help get the right one for your needs. This means listening to requirements and not jumping in with a vendor. I mean how could i honestly recommend anything without understanding the customer requirements.

 

I hate the bad sales companies that call end of months to hit target ect as it gives a bad name.

I know it does happen alot but this is not how everyone works.

[DGardiner]

I can say with extreme confidence this is not how all suppliers work and from reading this it sounds like a young salesman thats been constantly pressured and as you say pushing vendors rather than solutions.

 

Im not saying its a bad thing or complaining, supplier looked after me and got me nice deals and things at cost, id listen to a sales person every now and then.

 

Ive just been bitten at the top shelf end of it, Aruba - 13k solution, EOL after 2 years. Id rather buy 3k of unifi kit and if its broke replace it.

 

Its had its issues, but were now at a point where we know the system, worked out the kinks and saved a fortune. if it lasts half the expected life we still come out ahead

[Primus]

Their EOL page said the EOL products will stop working if you upgrade the controller software

 

Oh I see you meant if you have EoL products you have to stick with their last controller release? Well yes, obviously.

[Primus]

I can say with extreme confidence this is not how all suppliers work and from reading this it sounds like a young salesman thats been constantly pressured and as you say pushing vendors rather than solutions.

 

I mean ive mentioned Meraki and Cambium, Cambium is hardly the more expensive vendors.

 

If someone wanted to buy Unifi from me then fine but we wouldn't support the unifi as there is no vendor support so it could bite us in the bum as a supplier.

 

Everyone has different requirements and as a supplier i see it as my job to help get the right one for your needs. This means listening to requirements and not jumping in with a vendor. I mean how could i honestly recommend anything without understanding the customer requirements.

 

I hate the bad sales companies that call end of months to hit target ect as it gives a bad name.

I know it does happen alot but this is not how everyone works.

 

You say that, but you said previously and again in this post that you won’t recommend Unifi - so if a school doesn’t have the budget for anything more pricey you’d tell them you couldn’t possibly help and walk away?

 

Or you could put some of your team through the Unifi certifications and support it yourselves. There’s definitely money to be made there. In the same way I’m now seeing companies offering more extended warranties for Unifi and holding stock themselves to allow for RMA - though as I’ve said we’ve got plenty of their kit and had only one RMA across it all.

 

I expect the margin in Unifi kit is a lot lower though.

[mavhc]

Aruba's EOL is 5 years after EOS, which is announced 6 months in advance