So... NHS Contact Tracing App

[caffrey]

Guidance says you don't need to, unless you do lettings etc.

 

Every bit helps though especially with site visitors \ contractors etc. There's too much of this exemption thing going on makes it all pointless

 

I've had to update my sign in system for track and trace so we have contact numbers

[jthompson]

Hopefully they'll also be able to adjust the algorithm for the Bluetooth proximity measure by linking test results to notifications.

 

I suspect that there'll definitely be a need for top-down tweaking of that sort, but would it even be possible to link test results to notifications, though?

 

Edit to add: with a decentralised privacy model?

[pete]

The "if you subsequently test negative, you still have to wait the full quarantine period" aspect is problematic:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54250736

 

What will this alert say?

The notification will tell the recipient to go into self-isolation for a fortnight - and trigger the start of the app's countdown clock.

But the recipient is not told who triggered the alert.

And the authorities cannot identify either party, although they can track how many people have been told to self-isolate.

Even if the recipient has no symptoms or a subsequent negative test result, they must stay at home for the duration.

 

I am aware the tests aren't foolproof and depend on the stage of infection, but compared to manual track and trace (where you can go back to work if have no symptoms and test negative), this is problematic and will lead to employee <> employer grief.

[mavhc]

You ask for a test via the app, so it sends back the test result to the app, and then the app says "do you want to share your positive result anonymously", at which point it would upload its list of random keys to NHS, and those keys would be downloaded by everyone, and compared to keys that phone has seen.

 

Then the app calculates for how long you were near that key, and if it's been close for 30 mins, approx, it tells you you've been near The Infected

[mikeprice]

Not compatible with my device

 

huh

 

great - if it only works on newish phones that should really limit the number of people who use it

which kinda limits its ability to actually work as well as it can

[AlexB]

Best guess is that it needs BLE to keep the battery use even vaguely acceptable.

[mavhc]

Works on my 3 year old Android 6 phone

[Localtechie]

As much as I'd like the app to be a success, I think I'll maintain my policy of not being a first adopter. I'm happy to let everyone else find out whether or not there are some extra privacy-phobic features in there designed to mitigate all the false positives. I'm as sceptical as ever of Bluetooth being anything but lousy for contact detection. I suspect the app will find success as a general information source for users (local infection rate, test booking & results, venue check-in/out) but garbage as a contact detector. The former also doesn't rely on a network effect.

https://github.com/nhsx

 

Why don't you check the source code and judge for yourself. FYI it doesn't even have the api calls for location neither file storage on android. The only thing I can see is camera to scan a QR code.

 

Much better then the ad supported games on apps using Facebook analytics.

 

I've installed it

[StevieM]

Doesn't work on my Doro.

[jthompson]

https://github.com/nhsx

 

Why don't you check the source code and judge for yourself.

 

Because I'm not going to understand it.

[smurfomatic]

Installed it too. Unlikely to pick up any issues for me - apart from work (where I'd hear about a case that affected me) there's only touch rugby training, and I'm the point of contact for anyone who gets a positive test!

 

However, there's always a chance I can have time off...I mean be forced to isolate at home and work from there instead

[chris11256]

Installed it on my iPhone 8 this morning & i've needed to charge my phone three times today so far. If this carries on tomorrow I'm deleting it.

[aicrd]

Seems the app doesnt work at all. Someone in my household tested positive so we decided to test it. They put in the results on the app and I left my phone on top of theirs for an hour.

 

App is yet to tell me to self isolate. The 2 devices are running iOS and Android so I wonder if that could be a factor? Bluetooth is enabled on both devices.

[mavhc]

How did they put their results in the app?

[smarties11]

I am aware the tests aren't foolproof and depend on the stage of infection, but compared to manual track and trace (where you can go back to work if have no symptoms and test negative), this is problematic and will lead to employee <> employer grief.

 

This isn't the case. You shouldn't even order a test if you have no symptoms.

 

If you are told to self isolate by track and trace, then you cannot go back to work until after 14 days. Even if you develop symptoms and test negative; you still stay at home for 14 days. If you develop symptoms and test positive, then you stay at home for 10 days after the symptoms started and anyone else in your household/support bubble self-isolates for 14 days and follows the same procedure.

[aicrd]

How did they put their results in the app?

 

You get given a code with a positive test result and then input that code into the app. That then should tell everyone you've been in contact with to self isolate.

[mavhc]

Installed it on my iPhone 8 this morning & i've needed to charge my phone three times today so far. If this carries on tomorrow I'm deleting it.

 

https://faq.covid19.nhs.uk/article/KA-01163/en-us?parentid=CAT-01028&rootid=CAT-01024

[mavhc]

You get given a code with a positive test result and then input that code into the app. That then should tell everyone you've been in contact with to self isolate.

 

According to the code it seems to download either once a day, or once every 2 hours I think, depending on some other criteria, so see what happens tomorrow.

[bald_pig]

Also, is it going to keep recording after you've entered the positive result? At that point you'd be self isolating, along with your household, so you aren't going to be in contact with anyone else.

[jmak]

Also, is it going to keep recording after you've entered the positive result? At that point you'd be self isolating, along with your household, so you aren't going to be in contact with anyone else.

I'd assume it will, although there is an assurance that they will never use the app as a way of checking that you do obey the instruction to stay at home.

 

You can also tell it to delete any of the data it holds.

[aicrd]

I've been isolating for a few days now but I only just got the app so I wonder if it does eventually pick up the fact I live with someone who has had a positive test will it tell me to isolate for 14 days even though I should only isolate for another 10?

 

If so, does that mean everyone I come into contact with when I return to work will also be asked to isolate? Really hope thats not the case because thats pretty poor design.

[mikes]

Won't work on my phone. Needs Android 6 or later, I have Android 4. It's a perfectly good phone that does what I need, do I need to throw it away? What happened to not creating waste? I would have thought the most vulnerable to Covid would be the older and the poorer, who won't have top end new smartphones.

[Norphy]

We’re on Android 11 now. Frankly, I find the fact that they’re supporting a version as old as 6, released in 2015, to be quite impressive. Android 4 is coming on for 10 years old at this point.

 

I’m also guessing that Google haven’t put the required APIs into Google 4.

[jmak]

I've been isolating for a few days now but I only just got the app so I wonder if it does eventually pick up the fact I live with someone who has had a positive test will it tell me to isolate for 14 days even though I should only isolate for another 10?

 

If so, does that mean everyone I come into contact with when I return to work will also be asked to isolate? Really hope thats not the case because thats pretty poor design.

You'd hope it would take into account when the test date was - although judging it by edge cases that only exist for a few days after launch would seem harsh, especially when what is on the app isn't legally enforceable. Might be worth deleting all the data before you go back to work as nothing is picked up will be relevant any more.

Won't work on my phone. Needs Android 6 or later, I have Android 4. It's a perfectly good phone that does what I need, do I need to throw it away? What happened to not creating waste? I would have thought the most vulnerable to Covid would be the older and the poorer, who won't have top end new smartphones.

Presumably it's most relevant for people who are exposing themselves to lots of different contacts and you'd expect them to be more likely to have newer phones.

 

No criticism of you running an old phone (mine is over 5 years old and still going), but it doesn't seem unreasonable to insist that the phone is still getting security updates when you're designing an app that gathers personal data.

[aicrd]

Amazingly my iPhone SE (1st Gen) works just fine with the app and its nearly 5 years old. I also just got the update for iOS 14 yesterday. Gotta give Apple credit for supporting devices like this.