So... NHS Contact Tracing App

[unixman_again]

UK's Ministry of Defence: We'll harvest and anonymise private COVID-19 apps' tracing data by handing it to 'behavioural science' arm

[mikeprice]

I have seen a lot of things on the telly where people are saying that they can;t see any privacy problems with the app because all you type into it is the first part of your post code

 

Which is not the point where the problem lies - so it shows that the people commenting are quite happy to use the app and have thought about the privacy problem

 

but not actually done anything to see what the actual problem is

 

some of these people commenting have been proper government people and proper journalists

 

all a bit scary really

[mavhc]

Wait until you try to explain hmac bluetooth rotating security keys

[LeMarchand]

NSFW language on the leak of NHS Test & Trace data to C4: https://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2020/06/nhs-test-and-trace-leak/

[Andrew_C]

Read this evening that we can expect it to be up and running properly in September.

 

"proud of our response..."

[mikeprice]

Read this evening that we can expect it to be up and running properly in September.

 

"proud of our response..."

 

Did they mention a year??

[unixman_again]

Legal complaint lodged with UK data watchdog over claims coronavirus Test and Trace programme flouts GDPR

[Arthur]

Police planning their own contact tracing system over concerns about government's version

 

Police forces are planning their own contact tracing system over concerns the government's test and trace scheme could place officers in danger, Sky News has learned.

 

Under the plans, police officers who test positive for COVID-19 would not give their contacts to NHS contact tracers, but would instead inform their police force who would take over contact tracing to identify anyone at risk of catching the virus.

 

The plans, which are being developed by national police organisations, could see police forces take over all contact tracing for police officers and staff, according to a source close to the matter.

[mikeprice]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53095336

 

 

so - a U turn

 

no further comments for amphibious reasons

[FishCustard]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53095336

 

 

so - a U turn

 

no further comments for amphibious reasons

 

The right decision. Doing the right thing should almost always be commended, even if it is too late. Far better to have a working app for a second wave than push ahead with something that isn't fit for purpose (like they're doing Down Under).

 

Endless debate can be had around whether they should've done this to start with (no comment personally as I also like my current anatomy), but at least they've seen the light.

[Andrew_C]

"It will be overready by Christmas" - I've heard that somewhere before.

[jthompson]

Just release it for Android and leave iPhone owners in lockdown.

 

\s

[mikeprice]

Listening to the briefing I think they said that it just won't work on iPhones

 

 

But they have been 'trialling' it on the Isle of White for ages

 

and apparently it just can;t work

 

Now - I don;t want to be awkward - but when I was writing program for a living (which I did for 20 years) I used to start off by designing the thing and then looking for the most complex bits and the bits that possibly carried a risk

And then get them sorted and test the risks

 

and then test it properly (anyone who worked with me can shut up at this point!!!)

 

THEN the rest of the system would be done and finalised

then tested in isolation

then tested properly

then released for limited use

etc etc etc

 

so how come this hasn't come up before now???

 

 

 

OK - not being political - I am actually getting at the company that has been developing the damn thing

What in the name of $deity have they been doing??

 

you can;t expect the ministers to know the details of this sort of complex stuff

 

but the company should be ashamed of themselves for it getting this far

 

this blocker should have been spotted at the first hurdle

[mavhc]

You know what companies that win contracts have been doing, investing in the people who win them contracts, not programmers.

[jthompson]

There must be about a hundred different contract tracing projects on GitHub by now. You'd think given the desperate desire for this stuff that some kind of de facto standard, internationally compatible options would have emerged by now.... IF such a thing we're achievable using smartphone Bluetooth.

[Andrew_C]

You know what companies that win contracts have been doing, investing in the people who win them contracts, not programmers.

people who award them contracts

[Achandler]

Part of the issue (although it was known from the start), is to do with Apple refusing to allow Apps (that they didn't create and can use for their own malicious purposes, or the greater good...) from using low energy Bluetooth in the background.

 

Do we really believe Apple and Google aren't going to use the data to track people and how they interact with each other.

[FishCustard]

Google might, I doubt Apple would have a use for the data given their business model.

[pete]

Part of the issue (although it was known from the start), is to do with Apple refusing to allow Apps (that they didn't create and can use for their own malicious purposes, or the greater good...) from using low energy Bluetooth in the background.

 

Do we really believe Apple and Google aren't going to use the data to track people and how they interact with each other.

 

I trust Google to be mercenary with information they receive and that makes them stable and predictable. They're unlikely to lose it due to incompetence, or use it for actively malicious purposes because doing so would harm their profits.

 

Compared to a government led by a feckless serial liar who changes policy based on whatever he thinks might keep his party supported by Daily Mail readers, Google is the sensible choice.

[jmak]

Part of the issue (although it was known from the start), is to do with Apple refusing to allow Apps (that they didn't create and can use for their own malicious purposes, or the greater good...) from using low energy Bluetooth in the background.

 

Do we really believe Apple and Google aren't going to use the data to track people and how they interact with each other.

Pretty sure that it doesn't give them much more than they already have. They already know where you go and who else is there at the same time. I think the main thing this offers to test and trace is allowing them to contact people you've been near who you don't know, which I reckon will mostly be on public transport and potentially once restaurants and pubs open. Otherwise, you'll mostly be able to identify people who you've been near - and if you won't share that with test and trace, you probably wouldn't download the app either.

I trust Google to be mercenary with information they receive and that makes them stable and predictable. They're unlikely to lose it due to incompetence, or use it for actively malicious purposes because doing so would harm their profits.

 

Compared to a government led by a feckless serial liar who changes policy based on whatever he thinks might keep his party supported by Daily Mail readers, Google is the sensible choice.

My view on all things Google - it's a pretty straightforward transaction. They want to sell my data to people who want to buy things. I don't have to buy them. Once that data is going to government (of any party) there's a long history of them finding new ways to use it that differ from what you expected.

 

I'm probably kidding myself, but I trust Google more than Facebook as they still to go on for social engineering which seems more evil than just selling stuff.

[mavhc]

If you didn't trust google or apple why did you buy their phones? Not like there's any way to tell what data is being sent, closed source hardware.

[DrCheese]

Do we really believe Apple and Google aren't going to use the data to track people and how they interact with each other.

 

What data tho? They aren't holding anything beyond a list of IDs - They don't know what phones you've come into contact with at all - Only your local phone does.

[jmak]

If you didn't trust google or apple why did you buy their phones? Not like there's any way to tell what data is being sent, closed source hardware.

If that's a question for me, then the answer is that I think I know how they'll behave and it's a trade off I'm prepared to make.

 

I know I'm the product, but I'm pretty sure that they won't share my data accidentally or to any government. I assume they track my location (but I like using sat nav, so I've got to give that data to someone and the government can track mobile phone locations anyway). I'm sure they track websites I visit, but they have a damned good go at that whether you use Android or any other web browser as retailers are addicted to that too.

 

I know they try and associate data to build a profile, but again that's simply to try and sell me stuff. I respond to that by being aware of it and only buying things I really want (i.e. Items I look for rather than one suggested to me). I also use ad and cookie blockers as a back up. I also regularly clear all my Google history - not because it's creepy, but because I become aware that it's restricting search results and suggestions too much and the content I see is repetitive.

 

Taking it back to the topic, the government intended to capture a significant amount of personal data through the app and then store it centrally and not give you the right to delete it or to know what they might use it for in the future.

[mavhc]

Google records everywhere I go, and then remembers it for me so I can see my entire travel history, very helpful. Also it asks me whether I went into shops I went near and gives me google money for telling them.

 

Anyway, they're not going to track you using this app, that's the whole point.

[jmak]

Google records everywhere I go, and then remembers it for me so I can see my entire travel history, very helpful. Also it asks me whether I went into shops I went near and gives me google money for telling them.

 

Anyway, they're not going to track you using this app, that's the whole point.

I think we're agreeing [emoji6]