Staff Laptops

[mavhc]

> The logoff and logon process is how web filtering works, drives get mapped, policies for users v computers get applied etc.

> How would having laptops solve this problem?

 

By having one each, so you just log in once a month

 

> Desktops are quieter, more powerful, cheaper to upgrade, support more external displays etc.

 

Laptops support 2 displays minimum. Desktops 1. Laptops are usually quieter.

 

> Surely the cost of laptops versus PCs should be enough of an argument?

 

No, cost vs usage. If it's twice as efficient it's fine to cost 1.5x more.

 

> What about loss of data on a laptop?

Bitlocker

 

> What about loss of kit?

Insurance

 

> What happens if a teacher has their laptop and is off sick? That's then up to IT to solve the problem, which isn't right in my book.

 

Spare laptop

 

IT's only job is to solve problems users have, and ones they don't even know they have.

[Garacesh]

IT's only job is to solve problems users have, and ones they don't even know they have.

IT's job, half the time, is to save users from themselves. I don't want to sound like a derogatory BOFH but in my experience users often create problems for themselves by trying to be flash or inventive and not really thinking it through.

As you say, we should fix the problems users don't know they have.. Alternatively, we should strive to avoid the problems they don't know they'll have if X.. But we know

 

IT's job is to also weigh up cost vs benefit where technology equipment is used, and to do appropriate risk assessments for kit that we do buy.

You're right when you say buying kit at 1.5x the cost but getting 2x the use out of it is a good deal, I wholeheartedly agree, but that's really not going to be the case with laptops.

 

Also, logging on once a month? Please, lord, no! We want users to be shutting down their machines at least once a week if we get our way. Updates are a thing, you know? Especially when you consider, for example, software installed via .msi only updates on boot.

 

Also just because we can claim on insurance doesn't mean we want to. That's going to cost money, and it's going to increase the price of the insurance. I'd rather just buy kit that has less chance of going walkabouts, personally..

Edited January 14, 2020 by Garacesh

[hardtailstar]

 

What about loss of kit?

Insurance

 

 

My last job a teachers school laptop was stolen from her house whilst she was sleeping. The school insurance wouldn't pay out as it said that the teachers home insurance should be paying out. The home insurance wouldn't pay out because it said the school insurance should be paying out.

 

It took a year before they both agreed to pay half each.

 

Needless to say that after that, The insurance was scrutinised!

 

So Insurance isn't always helpful.

[mdrabble]

I had envisaged that Laptop would be configured as Domain/Azured joined laptops and locked down to prevent "home" software being installed.

 

GPO settings to move documents to One Drive - stop data from being saved locally in case of any issues, data would still be accessible.

 

Displaying to Screens/Projectors can be done via VGA or HDMI or even Miracast depending on what they are showing. - To be honest I haven't looked at this bit in any detail yet.

 

Damages would be paid from departmental budgets - hopefully to encourage staff to look after them and then to answer to HOD and me!

 

I am looking to order extra for occasion such as supply staff and trainees.

 

I would also have some portable DVD drives which can be booked out by staff should they need them to play DVDs - this will require some planning on their part!!

[mavhc]

Also, logging on once a month? Please, lord, no! We want users to be shutting down their machines at least once a week if we get our way. Updates are a thing, you know? Especially when you consider, for example, software installed via .msi only updates on boot.

 

That's why I've switched to Chocolatey, scheduled task to run the install/update script every day, and then hopefully WU will force a reboot once a month. Wifi + GPO Software installations is annoying.

 

Windows 10 is too stable!!!

[DrBeaker]

Well - seeing as last week when I went to swap back out a loan PC I'd put in one place, I'd found a teacher had taken it upon themselves to move a PC from another room to their classroom and not ask or inform m - after all what do GPOs, locations etc matter?

 

That gives me all the excuse I need to lock them down with security cables now. So it would be a NO from me to the laptops straight away.

[mullet_man]

We are only laptops here, it works great 99% of the time and it’s all I’ve known in all the schools I’ve worked in over the years.

 

Previously we had Dell laptops with docks in each room, we’ve now replaced with HP ProBook 450 G5 laptops and USB-C docks. The key is to have plenty of spares of both items as staff forget laptops or break them.

 

Am slightly worried about the USB-C port durability but so far so good, I’ve had to replace a few docks so far but from what I’ve read about usb-c is that the cable takes the strain rather than the port so it’s cheaper to replace a dock than a laptop.

 

We have a large amount of teachers so we do have our day to day issues, such as sound not working in some rooms and getting staff to restart laptops to complete updates is a problem but obviously sccm takes care of that and forces a reboot eventually.

[gumbygaz]

We went through this in the summer, and it's gone pretty well. We needed to update all the old PCs in classrooms so SLT thought now was the best time to look at this project. Ended up buying the HP x360 G1 - £480 each then we got £100 back with the cashback scheme HP are running.

These had USB-C so with the HP G4 dock it's just one cable for charging, projector, LAN. So dead easy for the teachers to swap rooms.

We left the old PCs monitor/Keyboard/mouse so they get full desktop with dual screen setup (first couple weeks was repeating "Windows Key+P" to duplicate/extend issues)

 

We've got Directaccess, so seamless use of the laptops from home etc

 

We needed to buy a few more as we underestimated the additional teaching needs. English/Maths Mentors covering lessons, teachers going off on maternity after being given the laptop and the bank of supply laptops we had (older ones that didn't support USB-C) have proved a headache for us support wise. Setting them up by manually removing cables from the dock and then going to the lesson after because the cover teacher forgot to put them back.

SIMS updates, I need to schedule at the right time when they're all here on site or they'll not get the update in time.

Some of the older monitors disliked the resolutions but thankfully the projectors have been fairly forgiving. Sure it'll be even better once rooms get a 1080p monitor and touchscreen panel (a long time off though!)

 

Personally I would have preferred staying with desktops. Much easier for me to maintain, and cheaper in the long term. We'll see if we can get the laptops to last the warranty, I suspect the USBC port will be the first things to go.

However, teachers love them, SLT love them. Means teachers can be more flexible & productive, e.g. can prepare a lesson in the dept office, close lid and open in the lesson and off they go. No delays in logging in, launching the number of ppts, website resources etc.

Meetings/CPD they can all be online in the meetings so less paper needed etc

 

We shall see how it pans out! Nobody's dropped one yet and only 1 teacher has forgotten to bring it with them (they get one of the awkward old laptops as punishment!)

[DrBeaker]

One point is no-one has mentioned yet - I thought you had to pay tax/declare if you had an "asset" like this through your employer? Same as a company car is a perk but a taxable perk I was always told?

 

Someone wiser than I may have more info on this.

[elsiegee40]

One point is no-one has mentioned yet - I thought you had to pay tax/declare if you had an "asset" like this through your employer? Same as a company car is a perk but a taxable perk I was always told?

 

Someone wiser than I may have more info on this.

 

If you have a company laptop and use it to work at home, no problem. The minute you put it to personal use it becomes a taxable benefit.

 

In practice, there’s a grey area where HMRC will let you get away with limited personal use.

[mavhc]

Given teachers cost £££/hour, spending an extra £100 over 3 years to make them more efficient is worth it.

 

SOLUS seems to update SIMS fine these days too. Just think, by the time Windows 11 is out the web based SIMS will be ready.

 

If you give teachers laptops then you don't have to worry about them moving desktops into different classrooms either.

[DrBeaker]

If you have a company laptop and use it to work at home, no problem. The minute you put it to personal use it becomes a taxable benefit.

 

In practice, there’s a grey area where HMRC will let you get away with limited personal use.

Interesting.

 

Would be interesting to see if staff paid to support school computers have to solve a problem on a school-owned device that's caused by improper personal usage of device. E.g. if their child has broken their school-assigned laptop when it's being used at home, does it warrant spending IT support time fixing it?

 

Seems to be too many headaches and ifs and buts with this laptop scheme though.

 

Setup RemoteApp or RDS and you've met that criteria or need to work from home.

 

Having fast desktops meets the needs cheaper than fast laptops, with a lower TCO, reduces the stress and hassle for teachers and IT teams. If a teacher forget their pass/key, would they expect the IT team to go around and open doors for you all day? But they'd expect IT to give them a temporary laptop?

 

Having a bit of kit like a laptop assigned to you is a privilege surely and that means you are responsible as a professional to bring that kit into work to do your job.

 

Each school will vary and it's interesting to see the varied setups of different schools.

[mavhc]

The "List of Idiots who forgot their laptops" sign on the door helps with that.

 

Remote computing doesn't stop keyloggers and screen recording apps on their client machine.

 

Laptops are easier to fix, people bring them to you, you can fix 10 at once. Plus easier to carry about, I'd rather set up 30 laptops than 30 desktops.

 

If someone breaks something they pay for the repair, pretty simple.

 

Computers are fast enough, no difference between desktop or laptop speeds unless you're rendering 3d graphics. The expensive human time of plugging in 1 cable and opening the computer to resume from standby exactly where you left it, that's what, 10 seconds, is way more important.

[dobbyit]

I need to source 2 all in ones for my teachers who are currently using laptops. They said its a nightmare they want a larger monitor, proper keyboard and mouse, not in the correct position using them. I thought it was a step forward, less cables, less energy less cost but hey im taking laptops back and putting in all in ones

[witch]

Gone off topic a bit

The OP said which ones would you choose? Anything good from ICT Direct IMHO. There will always be a problem re different species of laptop - you'll need new ones for new starters and they won't make the one you picked anymore etc etc.

It's a big outlay as you would need to do them all at once and budget for chargers, batteries etc

 

Our staff all have laptops. It is not great - issues with new laptops having no DVD drive, no VGA, all sorts of malarkey

Edited January 15, 2020 by witch

[mavhc]

The ICT direct laptops I looked at were 66% of the price, with 66% of battery life. If you're going for long lived new is usually better I think.

 

The business laptops still have VGA afaics, optical drives are dead, and thus usb/just put a dvd player in every room, they're only £15.

 

Of the laptops with USB-C charging https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=nb&xf=31_USB-C+Ladeanschluss everything under £600 seems to be ChromeOS only

[dhicks]

But if I did look at laptops for staff - what model would you opt for?

 

If the aim is to have staff move laptops between classrooms, I'd aim for something ultra-portable, 11"-sized screen, with a vertical stand and external monitor in desktop locations for users to plug in to (ideally via a one-connection-does-everything USB C cable). Our pupils use the Asus C101PA Chromebook Flip - £200 each when new several years ago, I'm not quite sure what the equivilant Chromebook / Windows is now, but you'd think there'd be something similar available for a similar price. They've lasted better than we thought they might, and are small enough to be stuffed in the front of a backpack. I use a 17" desktop replacement Dell machine in my office, and where it's nice having a capable machine for video editing (the chassis is large enough to hold two harddrives), it's a palavar to lug to and from the office as it takes up most of my backpack space.

[chaplic]

I don't question the people saying desktops are more reliable and have a longer life, but stunned that some teachers are being chained to a desk to use PCs

 

I rolled out a number of Ultranote IVs from PCspecialist. They are clevo based laptops and include all the ports you'd want, and fairly light and small. 256SSD and I3 processor, 8GB RAM runs everything fine. That said, I've been a little disappointed with reliability as I've had two fail on power adapter (basically if you wiggle it in the right direction you get power). Next time round I think I'd be minded to recommend enterprise grade rather than consumer grade laptops which cost far more, but are better designed for 5x8 working - or get the cheaper ones with a 2/3 year refresh cycle.

 

I'd probably order from VeryPC next time.

[DJ-1701]

I don't question the people saying desktops are more reliable and have a longer life, but stunned that some teachers are being chained to a desk to use PCs.

 

Where as someone that provides laptops instead of desktops, I am stunned by the amount of BER damage that is done to the laptops.

[Garacesh]

That said, I've been a little disappointed with reliability as I've had two fail on power adapter (basically if you wiggle it in the right direction you get power).

I try and avoid anything with a 'standard' DC pin-style connector because you always end up with this issue. It happens with other flavours too but it's pretty much guaranteed with those unless they're made ridiculously robust.

Unfortunately more and more manufacturers seem to be using them because they're slimmer and everyone wants to be the thinnest and lightest.. Which again I'd want to actively avoid. I'm not saying let's lump them with something the size of an Amiga, but you want something that's going to survive a good bit of rough-and-tumble if you're expecting to operate a 1:1-style scheme.

 

DELL's seem to be a happy medium.

[mavhc]

USB-C + magnet adapter?

[MartinT]

Lenovo E490 here for staff. There are desktops in the classrooms, too.

 

I'm contemplating replacing the desktops with docks.

[Garacesh]

USB-C + magnet adapter?

 

I feel like USB C is an awful connector for charging. I get that it's more than capable technologically, and it's nice to have dual-use of the port to be able to plug other things into, but I just feel like USB-C is too feeble a connector for a power supply. I want something meaty.. A connector that lets me use the laptop whilst it's on charge and the connector isn't going to wiggle itself loose over time. USB-C has great side-to-side resilience but it seems real easy to snap them with up-and-down movement (such as if you move your laptop a bit too far and the power cable pulls taut) .

 

Magnetic connectors should absolutely be standard though.

 

Edit: We got a batch of Lenovo refurbs in a few months ago and they're using this as a connector and that feels incredibly sturdy.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Garacesh

[mdrabble]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Had meeting with the head and she isnt again the idea of laptops but is concern about issues such as if staff forgetting laptops etc and connecting cables etc.....

 

I had pointed out that further investigations were needed as to best way for staff to connect to screens/projectors etc....

 

So think I may go to Bett this year to have a look at different solutions and also about information about Sharepoint. etc....

[john]

Magnetic connectors should absolutely be standard though.

 

Does anyone do them still? Apple dropped them a number of years ago and went Thunderbolt 3 / USB C whatever you want to call it.