No more free Java from 2019

[gerardsweeney]

On the off-chance that fellow C&G users are reading this

 

I've found that Open8 only works if I use the syntax

"C:\blah\jdk8u192-b12-jre\bin\javaw.exe" -jar -Xms512m -Xmx1024m "C:\whatever\SeemisCNG\launcher.jar"

otherwise, it doesn't work - log files complain about heap size.

 

I tried the same with Open11, but it stubbornly refuses to work (heap size recorded in the log), apparently no matter what size I set xms/xmx to.

[Primus]

Ubiquiti state that it is concurrent users not APs/Switches that are important; A design maximum is 1000 concurrent users: https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/217549368-UniFi-How-many-APs-can-the-Cloud-Key-handle- This obviously depends on your own system. We have 47APs - a mixture of LR, AC-LR, outdoor, AC-M - (guest/voucher portal SSID on VLAN, SSID on VLAN and SSID on main) and as far as AP management the cloudkey doesnt break a sweat, a switch or two might easily break the 1000 mark of course but 1000 is quite a high number for pure APs . The actual software is the same, the same flaky mongodb, same flaky firmware updates, same flaky method of adding an SSL certificate for the guest portal, it is just the hardware that might not be up to snuff for you.

 

As far as management goes it is friendlier than the java service, device firmware can be updated with the click of a button, autobackups can be taken and rolled back by the click of a button (or downloaded off the device for storage). Obviously AP firmware is the same as separate controller with the same options. If you want you can even integrate into the ubiquiti online portal (we havent, our cloudkey connects to the internet only to check for updates when I choose to as it is firewalled off - I manually enable in the firewall when I want to look for an update). Migration to the cloudkey was a doddle, there is a migrate export from java service to cloudkey import. For £70 it was a no brainer for us. If it dies then I can always import the last backup I have into an onsite java (as this is supported too).

 

It seems that Ubiqiuiti say different things in different formats as I've definitely seen Ubiqiuiti employees on their support forum saying 30-50 devices (APs and switches). I would say we ran a small offsite provision off a CloudKey and found performance very sluggish so when we did our main site we decided to host it on a VM and performance is spot on.

[Arthur]

This might be of interest...

 

www.edugeek.net/forums/downloads/201461-amazon-corretto-no-cost-distribution-openjdk-long-term-support.html

[mikemcsharry]

I noticed one of the PCs today flagged Java update.. When I ran it, the message came back 'You haven't used java for 6 months' and the Java update actually uninstalled Java. Been wanting to do that for ages.

[DrBeaker]

Hopefully this will be the start of the end of JAVA once and for all!

 

Good scam though you've got to admit - spend years of business, schools etc using your product for free, then start them charging for it.

[3s-gtech]

This will impact a product we use, but it’s installed on just one PC. I may be able to get it working with one of the alternative kits. Otherwise, I haven’t had it installed on any deployed clients since the XP days - it sits on one old laptop running XP for boiler management and RS232 work.

 

Our ancient TAC Xenta controllers really will need to be overhauled!

[mikkydoos]

I noticed one of the PCs today flagged Java update.. When I ran it, the message came back 'You haven't used java for 6 months' and the Java update actually uninstalled Java. Been wanting to do that for ages.

 

Its been doing that for a while.

[hardtailstar]

Its been doing that for a while.

 

Ive not had anything like that and ive done quite a few java updates recently.

 

Im sure they will start happening soon.

[DavR]

This will impact a product we use, but it’s installed on just one PC. I may be able to get it working with one of the alternative kits. Otherwise, I haven’t had it installed on any deployed clients since the XP days - it sits on one old laptop running XP for boiler management and RS232 work.

 

Our ancient TAC Xenta controllers really will need to be overhauled!

 

 

Pretty sure it's not going to stop working, or suddenly become chargeable for instances you already have installed?

 

I updated our lot to one of the latest versions of 8 before Christmas, and will just stick on that til it dies (hopefully).

[3s-gtech]

No, it’ll work, but as it’s public facing for us it would want to be updated.

[Arthur]

Pretty sure it's not going to stop working, or suddenly become chargeable for instances you already have installed?

It may not stop working, but Oracle is expecting payment because the JRE/JDK is being used in a production/commercial environment (see blog post and license terms below).

 

Switching to OpenJDK or Corretto before February is probably a good idea to avoid letters from Oracle's lawyers.

 

https://derflounder.wordpress.com/2018/10/19/oracle-java-jdk-openjdk-java-11-and-macos

 

With Java 8 approaching the end of its lifecycle, Oracle has made some changes to the Oracle JDK license that will affect Java 11’s JDK. As of Oracle Java JDK 8, you can use the JDK for free in the following circumstances:

 

• Development
  
• Testing
  
• Prototyping
  
• Production
  

As of Oracle Java JDK 11, you can use the JDK for free in the following circumstances:

 

• Development
  
• Testing
  
• Prototyping
  

Notice that Production has dropped off the list? If you use Oracle Java JDK 11 for production use, Oracle is now expecting payment.

 

If you don’t want to or can’t pay Oracle, what are the available options?

 

1. Keep using Oracle Java JDK 8

Oracle will continue to provide updates for Java 8 until January 2019, so a short-term solution is to keep using JDK 8 until support ends. This is only a short term solution however. If you want to continue using Java 8 past January 2019, you may need to start paying Oracle in order to get access to continuing Java 8 support.

 

2. Migrate from Oracle Java JDK to OpenJDK

In addition to its commercial offering, Oracle has an open-source Java available named OpenJDK. As of Java 11, Oracle will be providing functionally identical JDK builds to both the commercially licensed Oracle JDK and the open-source OpenJDK. For more details, please see below the jump:

 

An important difference between Oracle JDK 11 and OpenJDK 11 for Mac admins is the following:

 

• Oracle JDK: Oracle will provide an installer package for macOS
  
• OpenJDK: Oracle does not provide an installer for macOS at this time.
  

 

www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/terms/license/javase-license.html

 

License Rights and Restrictions

Oracle grants You a nonexclusive, nontransferable, limited license to internally use the Programs, subject to the restrictions stated in this Agreement and Program Documentation, only for the purpose of developing, testing, prototyping and demonstrating Your Application and not for any other purpose. You may allow Your Contractor(s) to use the Programs, provided they are acting on Your behalf to exercise license rights granted in this Agreement and further provided that You are responsible for their compliance with this Agreement in such use. You will have a written agreement with Your Contractor(s) that strictly limits their right to use the Programs and that otherwise protects Oracle’s intellectual property rights to the same extent as this Agreement. You may make copies of the Programs to the extent reasonably necessary to exercise the license rights granted in this Agreement.

 

Further, You may not:

• use the Programs for any data processing or any commercial, production, or internal business purposes other than developing, testing, prototyping, and demonstrating your Application;
  
• remove or modify any Program markings or any notice of Oracle’s or a licensor’s proprietary rights;
  
• make the Programs available in any manner to any third party (other than Contractors acting on Your behalf as set forth in this Agreement);
  
• assign this Agreement or distribute, give, or transfer the Programs or an interest in them to any third party, except as expressly permitted in this Agreement for Contractors (the foregoing shall not be construed to limit the rights You may otherwise have with respect to Separately Licensed Third Party Technology);
  
• cause or permit reverse engineering (unless required by law for interoperability), disassembly or decompilation of the Programs; and
  
• create, modify, or change the behavior of, classes, interfaces, or subpackages that are in any way identified as "java", "javax", "sun", “oracle” or similar convention as specified by Oracle in any naming convention designation.
  

[DavR]

It may not stop working, but Oracle is expecting payment because the JRE/JDK is being used in a production/commercial environment (see blog post and license terms below).

 

Switching to OpenJDK or Corretto before February is probably a good idea to avoid letters from Oracle's lawyers.

 

https://derflounder.wordpress.com/2018/10/19/oracle-java-jdk-openjdk-java-11-and-macos

 

 

 

www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/terms/license/javase-license.html

 

 

Interesting distinction, that I hadn't made before. Java 8 remains free in production, Java 11 testing only.

 

We made the right decision to stick with Java 8 for a few legacy applications then.

[Duke5A]

OK, so what Java SE 10? And I though MS licensing was hard to understand...

[Arthur]

OK, so what Java SE 10?

You can safely ignore v10.

 

www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/java-se-support-roadmap.html

 

Java SE 9 was a non‑LTS release and immediately superseded by Java SE 10 (also non‑LTS), Java SE 10 in turn is immediately superseded by Java SE 11.

 

[Arthur]

We made the right decision to stick with Java 8 for a few legacy applications then.

Would the lack of security updates for Java 8 be an issue in your environment?

[DavR]

Would the lack of security updates for Java 8 be an issue in your environment?

 

There is a risk there I suppose, but we're up to date as of December, and we're not using it heavily.

 

I'm waiting to junk one application tbh, then I should be ok to remove it from production machines.

[LeMarchand]

Only just had time to think about this, and have discovered we have at least one "must have" program that needs Java and my favourite disk space analysis tool does (I could find a different one). Would it be correct to say that the options are (if we have to have Java):

 

1. Stay on 8.201 and hope nothing breaks/becomes a security risk
   
2. Move to something like Corretto (assuming it works with what we need it to)
   
3. Pay Oracle
   

?

[Arthur]

Would it be correct to say that the options are (if we have to have Java):

 

1. Stay on 8.201 and hope nothing breaks/becomes a security risk
   
2. Move to something like Corretto (assuming it works with what we need it to)
   
3. Pay Oracle
   

?

Pretty much. I came across the following article yesterday on Phoenix Software's website which explains the situation well.

 

Java SE Subscriptions – Not just for 'legacy' Oracle customers

 

You will have probably already heard about the changes to Java licensing, but may be confused about how it might affect you …

 

In 2018, Oracle announced some Java licensing changes. These changes are coming into effect NOW.

 

In January 2019, Oracle released the last free public available patch and update of Oracle Java (SE 8u202)

Any further releases (April 2019 onwards) are now subject to a fee under the new subscription-based licensing model

 

Do I need to buy a subscription?

Yes, you will if:

 

• You require new releases of Oracle Java for commercial use from April 2019
  
• You need to use Oracle Java SE runtime (JRE) for running products not already licensed by Oracle
  
• Support is required (Support includes updates and patches for security vulnerabilities)
  

Java is a very secure environment if patched properly. If you do not need further versions, you can continue to use version 202, but your Java environment will become insecure quickly and may contravene security and government compliancy regulations. If anyone downloads anything released after January 2019 you are at risk of non-compliance with Oracle on licensing.

 

There are two types of Java licence – one for use on Servers and one for use on Desktops. These are Java SE Subscription and Java SE Desktop Subscription.

 

For Java SE Desktop Subscription

This is sold on a Named User Plus basis. So, all we need to know is how many users will use Java applications installed on desktop devices such as laptops and PCs.

 

For Java SE Subscription

This is slightly trickier as it’s sold on a per core basis where the cores are factored. You don’t need to worry too much however, we can work it out for you, we just need to know how many of what type of cores there are. The complication is more around virtualisation. If the Java is on VMware, we need to know how many cores there are in the entire physical infrastructure.

[FishCustard]

It's almost like they want people to use OpenJDK/Coretto/something else.

[jmak]

I didn't install it on clients when I reimaged last year and no one has complained about anything not working. However it is on our server to run the Unifi controller. Does anyone know whether any of the alternatives work? If not I think my best option might be to move to the cloud controller.

[jmak]

To follow up on my own query, it looks like some people are using Amazon's Corretto successfully.

 

https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Wireless/Oracle-now-charging-for-Java/td-p/2753437

 

Might play around with Corretto at home, but I'm planning on buying a cloud key for school as I don't want the hassle/blame when it breaks.