Paxton readers inside and outside the classroom...

[rad]

Quick question,

The SBM has initiated the install of the Paxton door mag readers to be installed both inside and outside the classroom doors. Basically it means students will in effect be “locked in”the classroom and only exit by using a card. At present I have no idea if students are getting the cards. The doors will be held open or locked.

 

We are changing the doors so they no longer have door locks.

 

Do other schools have the system in place like this?

 

TIA

[bald_pig]

I wouldn't...

 

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/free-school-locked-pupils-in-class/

[FN-GM]

I wouldn't...

 

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/free-school-locked-pupils-in-class/

 

An outstanding school close to one of ours does what the OP describes.

[Meldrew]

Presumably each door has an emergency exit button to press?

 

Meldrew

[PotNoodleTech]

Seems pretty risky. What if there's no one with a card in the classroom, what if the IT controller malfunctions/is down. What if all this happens during a fire drill.

 

There's a million things that could go wrong with that configuration that would end up with you guys in the newpapers and on TV.

 

Why not have the readers to get in the room and press to exit to get out, as is the norm?

[Katy]

All depends if it's done properly or not. Properly done it's fine, otherwise death trap.

 

By "properly done" I mean maglocks on relays connected to the fire alarm to release automatically and green exit break glass (which cuts the power to the mag lock, rather than just sending the "exit" signal to the Paxton box)

[3s-gtech]

If the catch side of the maglock is a Yale style lock (so mag latch) that should also be sufficient, as it requires no power or card to exit the room. This also depends on fire escape routes.

[pete]

, what if the IT controller malfunctions/is down.

 

Paxton control units (the boards that actually controls the maglock/reader/etc) cache card data locally and have battery backup. They periodically sync with the computer running the Net2 software, but don't require a connection to function.

[ITGURU]

Paxton control units (the boards that actually controls the maglock/reader/etc) cache card data locally and have battery backup. They periodically sync with the computer running the Net2 software, but don't require a connection to function.

 

If you want the maglocks to disable in the event of a fire alarm, there always has to be a connection to the server running the net2 software.

[woody]

If you want the maglocks to disable in the event of a fire alarm, there always has to be a connection to the server running the net2 software.

 

Not necessarily - as Katy said above, you can hard-wire a connection from each door controller to the fire alarm which will release the mag lock independent of the Net2 software.

[pete]

If you want the maglocks to disable in the event of a fire alarm, there always has to be a connection to the server running the net2 software.

 

Nope. All of our ACUs are connected directly to the fire alarm panel and will disable maglocks whether the server is available or not in the event of an alarm.

 

We wouldn't have installed the hardware if it couldn't do that, and we test the functionality periodically.

[ITGURU]

Nope. All of our ACUs are connected directly to the fire alarm panel and will disable maglocks whether the server is available or not in the event of an alarm.

 

We wouldn't have installed the hardware if it couldn't do that, and we test the functionality periodically.

 

Oh, that's different to how our installers did it then. They just put a relay link from the fire panel to the nearest ACU, then in event of trigger, it will alert the net2 server, and send the request to all the other ACUs to release the maglocks and open gates.

[Boredguy]

Oh, that's different to how our installers did it then. They just put a relay link from the fire panel to the nearest ACU, then in event of trigger, it will alert the net2 server, and send the request to all the other ACUs to release the maglocks and open gates.

Ah but what if the link between ACU and net2 server was disrupted due to a fire, how will the maglocks know to open. This is why our ACU's are also connected via relay to the fire alarm panel.

 

You should not rely on the server to be available in an instance like this.

[ITGURU]

Ah but what if the link between ACU and net2 server was disrupted due to a fire, how will the maglocks know to open. This is why our ACU's are also connected via relay to the fire alarm panel.

 

You should not rely on the server to be available in an instance like this.

 

True - however that is how they implemented it..but seems like it shouldn't be done that way!

[mukz]

True - however that is how they implemented it..but seems like it shouldn't be done that way!

 

We have it like you too @ITGURU but we have 5 doors serving as a trigger. Rather than just 1, we have 3 seperate buildings with a comms room in each so if a fibre/network went down in one location the others will still serve as redundancy.

[rad]

They are fitting the green boxes with break glass and linked to the fire alarm system.

 

It will be interesting how it goes down with teachers. As we in ICT were not consulted it means the network points are not near or don’t exist! Unsure when they will be all up and running but it will mean classrooms left unlocked until they are all set up.

[howartp]

We have it like you too @ITGURU but we have 5 doors serving as a trigger. Rather than just 1, we have 3 seperate buildings with a comms room in each so if a fibre/network went down in one location the others will still serve as redundancy.

 

We're currently like @ITGURU but working towards @mukz.

 

They're just finishing replacing the entire fire alarm site-wide (complete overhaul) but unfortunately linking to the Paxton units was "forgotten" when they wrote the spec, so we've got to wait for the project to be finished and signed off before we discuss modifying it!

[Edu-IT]

Quick question,

The SBM has initiated the install of the Paxton door mag readers to be installed both inside and outside the classroom doors. Basically it means students will in effect be “locked in”the classroom and only exit by using a card. At present I have no idea if students are getting the cards. The doors will be held open or locked.

 

We are changing the doors so they no longer have door locks.

 

Do other schools have the system in place like this?

 

TIA

I'm pretty sure with the Net2 system you can only unlock on a schedule so you are going to have to schedule each door to be locked or unlocked at the relevant times? Unless you've found another way to achieve the hold open? This can be done by a key switch. Seems a very overkill solution to have readers both sides of a classroom. I'd be interested to know the reasoning behind it. If it's to control behaviour then you'll just end up with smashed green emergency exit buttons every day.

[mavhc]

Why is everyone using maglocks and wasting power 24/7 when you could easily swap out the door lock for one that's battery powered and wireless, almost 0 installation costs

[Meldrew]

Why is everyone using maglocks and wasting power 24/7 when you could easily swap out the door lock for one that's battery powered and wireless, almost 0 installation costs

 

At a guess, I'd say that you can't guarantee that they release in an emergency, unlike wired systems. Only a guess though.

[localzuk]

Ah but what if the link between ACU and net2 server was disrupted due to a fire, how will the maglocks know to open. This is why our ACU's are also connected via relay to the fire alarm panel.

You should not rely on the server to be available in an instance like this.

 

What if a fire disrupts the fire alarm system, we should all have 200 independent fire systems in the school so every bell gets its signal separately...

 

At some point you have to accept that you are reliant on a centralised system of one form or another. Our fire brigade is happy with the setup where the Net2 server releases the locks when the alarm goes off, so we're happy with it - we have a relay in each building, connected to an ACU in that building.

 

However, to the op - you MUST have a backup way of exiting a room in case of a fire - eg. a local emergency override breakglass, or a handle that simply unlocks the door from inside.

[mavhc]

Problem with relying on a net2 server is it runs on Windows, so there's 1000 reasons why it may not be working when the fire goes off. Even if microcontroller code is all terrible, at least it's simple and rarely fails

[robk]

 

However, to the op - you MUST have a backup way of exiting a room in case of a fire - eg. a local emergency override breakglass, or a handle that simply unlocks the door from inside.

 

This is the key bit of info. Yes it means that lockdowns etc may be less effective than you might like, but does mean that in the event of a system fault evacuation can still take place.

 

From memory Paxlocks should open on fire, but they do rely on a internal battery so if the battery is flat... I also can't remember if they are reader on one side only therefore leaving is a standard door handle (meaning it fails safe).

[Edu-IT]

 

This is the key bit of info. Yes it means that lockdowns etc may be less effective than you might like, but does mean that in the event of a system fault evacuation can still take place.

 

From memory Paxlocks should open on fire, but they do rely on a internal battery so if the battery is flat... I also can't remember if they are reader on one side only therefore leaving is a standard door handle (meaning it fails safe).

Yes, the reader is only on one side. Inside remains a handle that can be used at all times.

[howartp]

I'm pretty sure with the Net2 system you can only unlock on a schedule so you are going to have to schedule each door to be locked or unlocked at the relevant times? Unless you've found another way to achieve the hold open?

 

You’ve lost me there.

 

Yes you can schedule the doors to be locked/unlocked.

 

Or you can schedule when student cards work/don’t work.

 

Or have a Rule so teacher can lock/unlock door with their card.

 

Or many combinations thereof.