Parking - Am I in the wrong?

[Edutech98]

Parking where I work is an absolute nightmare, they have about 10 parking spaces with about 250 employees. Local car parks are not much better, unless you get in before 7:30 forget getting a space. So the only option is to park on the street which I hate but don't really have a choice.

 

Today I parked up and I was half on the road and half on the pavement. I do this as to not block traffic. The pavement is wide enough that even with me half on, you can still easily get a double pram through with probably enough room for another person stood next to it.

 

But this woman was complaining that when she walks with her friend, who also has a double pram, they need to go single file. It took me about 90 mins to get to work today, so I wasn't in the best of moods and basically told her tough I'm not moving it!

 

I work in quite an affluent area (I'm not, I'm a porper lol) so put it down to her being a bit of a snob/get my own way! (Sorry for my sterotypical thoughts!)

 

So should I have moved it and parked fully on the road? This would have meant I was blocking cars and they would have needed to indicate out to get past the parked car. I feel a bit guilty but keeping telling myself she was just a complainer that would complain about anything.

[Joanne]

if they couldn't get past at all then yes it's a problem, but if they can get past at mild inconvenience, it's better than inconveniencing the hundreds of cars that will pass your car while you are in work.... dunno.... maybe that's me as a motorist speaking.

[Boredguy]

The Highway Code: Revised 2004: 218. DO NOT park partially or wholly on the pavement unless signs permit it.

 

It will soon be a fine able offence in our town to park on the pavements

[3s-gtech]

There's been some interesting discussion on this recently, as parking gets more and more contentious in cities. From what I've read, you're perfectly able to park half-on the pavement so long as you don't block it for any users. Consider a wheelchair or pram, don't force anyone using the pavement into the road. If the pavement isn't wide enough to allow them through and park, then don't park there. Of course, if there are any yellow lines, parking half on the pavement is still a no-go. Your car still needs to not obstruct the highway - think of normal traffic flow and the emergency services getting a whacking great fire engine through.

244 You MUST NOT park partially or wholly on the pavement in London, and should not do so elsewhere unless signs permit it. Parking on the pavement can obstruct and seriously inconvenience pedestrians, people in wheelchairs or with visual impairments and people with prams or pushchairs. Law GL(GP)A sect 15

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/parking.html Should not and must not differ very greatly in law. Edited July 5, 2018 by 3s-gtech

[DJ-1701]

Technically I don't believe driving on the pavement is actually legal... parking is a grey area... but then, how did you get up there... but IANAL. Still, at least there was enough access for a wheelchair user.

[elsiegee40]

See Are the great pavement parking rows finally coming to an end? - BBC News

 

It depends on local bylaws

Although local restrictions exist, there is currently no national ban on pavement parking across England and Wales. One was included in the Road Traffic Act 1974 , but it was never enacted and was eventually repealed in 1991.

... Parking on the pavement is generally allowed except where there are restrictions or an offence has been committed

 

The bill mentioned in that article was withdrawn.

 

Whether you should park on the pavement is another matter entirely

[Edutech98]

It's defiantly not blocking anyone in a wheel chair or a buggie. The pavement is really wide, as is the road, so cars can get past without really moving around the parked cars and they don't even need to touch the other side of the road to do so.

 

I'd say you could have easily got a double pram through, and probably a single one next to it. Her point was that when she has a double pram, and her friend does too, they both can't get through stood together. I said that she wouldn't usually be able to walk side by side with two double prams on most pavements but she didn't take that point.

@Boredguy - I had a look at that but it seems a grey area from what I've read. The RAC says its banned in London but for the rest of the country, its just advisory?

 

The street is quite long, with probably 20-25 cars parked along it, if we all parked on the road it would really obstruct traffic. We've petitioned the local council for more car parks but nothing has come of it. Mon-Wed I get public transport in but Thu/Fri I need the car because I pick up/drop off the kids.

[TomHD]

I think you are in the wrong.

 

"So the only option is to park on the street which I hate but don't really have a choice."

 

By saying you hate doing it you are recognising it is not a positive thing and to say you don't have a choice is a weak position to take.

 

"I feel a bit guilty but keeping telling myself she was just a complainer that would complain about anything."

 

Again you are feeling guilty, reaffirming the situation's negativity and yeah the lady may be a complainer in general but a complaint is a complaint regardless of your opinion on it's validity.

 

This is 100% not personal, you asked so I'm answering

[JordanT91]

You'd struggle to fit two double-buggies side by side down an unobstructed path so I don't think you are doing anything wrong. Just don't be surprised if you come back to your car one day and there's a scratch down the side.

[christhetech]

We had an issue a few years back now, where the Local Authority that I worked for at the time decided that they were going to start imposing a charge for parking in the office car parks for staff, which they would deduct as a salary sacrifice. I decided at that point to give up my office car parking space and park for free on the public highway. The upside of this was that my employer could no longer ask me to transport expensive IT equipment in my car, because as far as they were aware, I was not in my car. It all came to a head when they asked me one day to take around £50k worth of brand new Cisco hardware to the other end of the borough. I told them that I would have to transport it on the train, as I do not use my car, due to lack of affordable parking. The parking charge idea was mysteriously dropped completely a few weeks after that little incident. It cost them a couple of hundred quid to courier the equipment across to the other site, as opposed to me just taking it in the boot of my car for free, as I had always done in the past.

[StevieM]

What would this woman and her friend do if somebody else came down the street, in the opposite direction, with a double pram? Would they walk single file or stand their ground, defiantly, refusing to let the other person through, à la Galton and Simpson?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly0LY5pO6sw

 

(Long and poor quality video, but still worth a watch, when you have time!)

[birchanger]

if they couldn't get past at all then yes it's a problem, but if they can get past at mild inconvenience, it's better than inconveniencing the hundreds of cars that will pass your car while you are in work.... dunno.... maybe that's me as a motorist speaking.

 

Depends on what you call a mild inconvenience. If it forces people in wheelchairs, invalid scooters and mothers with buggies to walk around the car in the road then the driver wants shooting.

 

We get this in my village. The lane is quite narrow, but vehicles can pass each other, with care in the case of the bus. The pavement, on one side only, is even narrower. People park on the pavement because they say it's to avoid inconveniencing traffic, but if you park half on the pavement or fully in the road it makes no odds: vehicles can't pass each other at the place where you've parked. So pedestrians, including those heading for the village primary school, are forced to walk round the vehicle in a busy, narrow, road but other drivers derive no benefit.

 

In any case why should a driver impose even mild inconvenience on pedestrians? The pavement is there for people who don't happen to be in vehicles - keep you car off it.

Edited July 5, 2018 by birchanger

[Edutech98]

@TomHD - But you can hate doing something, and still acknowledge that you are completely in the right for doing it.

 

For example when I visit my mother-in-law I hate parking outside a person's house, but acknowledge that I'm completely within my right to do it. The person doesn't own that part of the road, I know this, but I still hate doing it even though I pay road tax.

 

This is my position - Mon-Wed my wife drops the kids off at school, Thu-Fri is my turn. The earliest the child minder will take them is 7:15 which when I drop them off, will get me in work about 8:45ish.

 

Public car parks are filled up, on-site parking only has 10 spaces, I can't do public transport on them days because I pick the kids up. Cycling would be too far/to long.

 

We've petitioned more car parks but not gone anywhere. Literally all the roads are double yellow, I have no clue why this particular bit isn't, can only presume its because of how wide the road/pavement is.

 

They offer home working which I've requested for thu/fri, but you need to be employed for more than a year before you are eligible (4 months to go!)

 

So the alternatives are;

 

1) Get a new job

2) Park on the road and block the traffic (its not double yellow)

3) Park 1/2 and 1/2, not block the road, not block any wheel chair, not block anyone from walking, they only person that would struggle, is if two people each with a double buggie could not both fit through at the same time.

 

Can you think of an alternative? I would happily think about it - I feel guilty because I don't like upsetting anyone. But I still think I'm in the right, even though I feel guilty lol.

[Edutech98]

In any case why should a driver impose even mild inconvenience on pedestrians? The pavement is there for people who don't happen to be in vehicles - keep you car off it.

 

This might sound a bit hippy but should we not all try and be helpful to each other and try too live in harmony? I'd happily be mildly inconvenienced by someone if it was helping them out. I'd hate to live in a world where everyone refuses to be even remotely flexible to another person just because they feel its their right.

[LeMarchand]

What would this woman and her friend do if somebody else came down the street, in the opposite direction, with a double pram? Would they walk single file or stand their ground, defiantly, refusing to let the other person through, à la Galton and Simpson?

 

Well, @Edutech98 said:

 

I work in quite an affluent area

 

My experience in the 2 "posh" towns I occasionally visit is that you're expected to move out of the way for everyone who is considerably richer than you. To be fair, this attitude seems to be creeping across all walks of life. I'm seriously considering adopting the "Richard Ashcroft" technique.

 

[HarryMonkey]

You don't pay road tax, you pay car tax (Vehicle Excise Duty)

[Boredguy]

Also you need to remember that pavements (without drop kerbs) are not always designed to have the weight of a parked car on it.

If the road has no double lines, good visibility and your not blocking someone's driveway then parking fully on the road is perfectly acceptable.

 

Us fellow road users might call you names when we come across the car and a string of traffic, but that's normal (and extremely common in the village where we work)

[AMLinington]

Parking where I work is an absolute nightmare, they have about 10 parking spaces with about 250 employees. Local car parks are not much better, unless you get in before 7:30 forget getting a space. So the only option is to park on the street which I hate but don't really have a choice.

 

Today I parked up and I was half on the road and half on the pavement. I do this as to not block traffic. The pavement is wide enough that even with me half on, you can still easily get a double pram through with probably enough room for another person stood next to it.

 

But this woman was complaining that when she walks with her friend, who also has a double pram, they need to go single file. It took me about 90 mins to get to work today, so I wasn't in the best of moods and basically told her tough I'm not moving it!

 

I work in quite an affluent area (I'm not, I'm a porper lol) so put it down to her being a bit of a snob/get my own way! (Sorry for my sterotypical thoughts!)

 

So should I have moved it and parked fully on the road? This would have meant I was blocking cars and they would have needed to indicate out to get past the parked car. I feel a bit guilty but keeping telling myself she was just a complainer that would complain about anything.

 

Pauper*

 

Sorry.

 

But yes, unfortunately you are in the wrong. It is not YET illegal to park partially on footpaths, I believe there is imminent legislation that will make this a road traffic violation. This will affect LeHusband and I because atm we have to park one car on the driveway, and one on the pavement. We'd park in the layby opposite, but the douchecanoe on the corner vandalises people's cars because he believes he has the right to monopolise the layby with his 4 vehicles. Us and our neighbours have all had wing mirrors kicked off and our cars keyed. We just can't afford to have the driveway extended right now. We have the space but not the money.

 

That being said, I think MORALLY there isn't an issue here - having to walk single file when you have massive buggies is common courtesy anyway - what about pedestrians going the other way? Sounds to me like the women in question were self-entitled selfish snobs, and your solution morally was the best of a bad situation - if you'd parked in the road completely, you'd be hampering traffic flow, so by parking half on and half off, you are trying to reduce the impact of your parking on two fronts.

 

I don't really think there is a 'best' solution here tbh. Legally I suspect you'd be told to park in the road or park elsewhere, but from a social courtesy aspect, I think it's fine.

[Edutech98]

Pauper*

 

.

 

I actually googled pauper and still spelt it wrong! Should have just said a poor person

[TomHD]

So the alternatives are;

1) Get a new job

2) Park on the road and block the traffic (its not double yellow)

3) Park 1/2 and 1/2, not block the road, not block any wheel chair, not block anyone from walking, they only person that would struggle, is if two people each with a double buggie could not both fit through at the same time.

Can you think of an alternative? I would happily think about it - I feel guilty because I don't like upsetting anyone. But I still think I'm in the right, even though I feel guilty lol.

 

Park on the road, block the traffic, force the local authority to put a proper solution in place. I'm usually all for a utilitarian approach but I find it contentious to suggest that not blocking cars is more important than not blocking pedestrians. I know you don't feel like you've blocked anyone but the very fact that someone complained to you about it suggests otherwise.

[sippo]

Parking annoys me. People are inconsiderate where they park.

 

Only because you can fit a car on the pavement, doesn't give you the right to park there.

 

Park on the road. If you were allowed to park on the pavement, there would be markings.

[3s-gtech]

Blocking the traffic actually is an offence (of course, it's not blocked if it just has to move around your car), such as situations where cars park either side of a narrow street and actually obstruct the flow entirely. EDIT:

It's defiantly not blocking anyone in a wheel chair or a buggie. The pavement is really wide, as is the road, so cars can get past without really moving around the parked cars and they don't even need to touch the other side of the road to do so.

Edited July 5, 2018 by 3s-gtech

[TomHD]

Could OP clear up whether parking on the road will actually block traffic or just slow down the flow of it?

[witch]

Whilst I dont agree with parking on the pavements, around here they are double-yellowing road after road, and so the number of roads you can park on are reducing every day, meaning that people take their parking opportunities where they can, resulting sometimes in parking on the pavement. In this particular case, the OP has ensured that there is space to get through on both the road and the pavement, which is a good thing.

As for public parking, the LA are using the pollution argument to ignore the lack of it - they say, "take public transport" even though the provision of that is poor, it is expensive, and some times you just can't.

[Edutech98]

@sippo - my thoughts were you can park on pavement (outside of London) as long as their are no marking to suggest otherwise. Hence the council wouldn't spend money putting up markings to say you can park on the pavement, they would only put up signs to say you explicitly can't. I don't know if that's right - but that's what I'm getting from reading guidance etc.

 

@TomHD - That's what everyone who parks there has to decide - do I obstruct 4000-5000 cars a day, or do we prevent two people with double buggies from walking next to each other for a cars length. I personally don't think its particular controversial to go with the latter. Especially given that the pedestrian is given a good 6-7foot in space. I honestly would not park on the pavement if I didn't feel a wheelchair could easily get through.

 

If you parked fully on the road, if traffic was coming in both directions you would most probably need to wait for the oncoming traffic to clear. Small cars might be able to squeeze through, but anything big I reckon they would need to wait. It's a really busy road so 4000-5000 is probably a real understatement.