Replacing ICT suite - help!

[jbreality]

Hi,

 

Our current ICT suite needs upgrading but we don't have a great deal of money. The current set up is:

 

31 x

Dell Optiplex 390

O/S: Windows 7 (64bit)

Processor: PROCESSOR, I5-2400, 3.1, 4C, SNB, D2, L

HDD: 250GB HDD

RAM: 1x DUAL IN-LINE MEMORY MODULE, 4G, 1333, 512X64, 8, 240, 2RX8

Graphics: Intel GMA HD Graphics 2000/3000

 

I have been recommended that we need (by my technician - bit of a blocker I think the phrase is)

 

As a minimum, I think you would need the following

 

250GB SSD

8GB DDR3 or higher RAM

6^th Generation Intel I3 orI5 processor ( as this is compatible with Windows 7 and works with Windows 10). Anything less will result in poor performance issues and 7^th generation processors and above are for Windows 10 only)

 

1GB or above dedicated graphics card would be advisable, but if not just the onboard should suffice.

 

I must confess I am not overly technical so just wanted some advice as let's just say the recommendations I have had in the past haven't always been too accurate.

 

We use them for the primary curriculum including some Mbots, 3d printing, scratch, kodu, Cospace software (really struggles), general word processing, 2Simple stuff, Microsoft office. We are also still running windows 7 as our technician says that the current hardware won't run windows 10 - most teacher laptops are i5 processors with SSD drives and 8gb ram and bought within the last few years.

 

Any advice would be great - spoke to some of your guys at BETT along with ICT direct and thought I would see if anyone is able to offer some impartial advice.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

JB

[Steve21]

Why does it need upgrading? As in what issues are you having?

 

Those specs should be more than enough for any standard programs (apart from CADCAM/VMs etc), and that would be resolved by an SSD upgrade normally.

 

No point in having a dedicated graphics card nowadays, unless you're doing really top end processing which from what's listed you won't be, the onboard ones in the new processors are more than enough.

 

Windows 10 will run fine on the specs you mentioned, You'd get better performance with an SSD upgrade but not sure it's worth binning what you have from what you've mentioned so far.

 

Steve

[atcoates]

Most cost effective upgrade would be an ssd with an adapter bracket for around £30 - £35 depending on supplier etc. Give them a good clean out whilst open and away you go for another 5 years! Always do a test on one pc and compare the performance gains. I wouldn't worry about any extra RAM either. Dell might not support Windows 10 on that machine but you may still find it works quite happily as long as you can find the drivers.

[newpersn]

SSD and Ram Upgrades. And those will run windows 10 fine.

 

We got Windows 10 installed on Dell 380 (Core2Duo 3 or 4GB DDR3 ram and 120GB SSD) and they run fine.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Hi @jbreality welcome to Edugeek!

 

Impartially, I reckon that spec is good as some schools go. There's a thread been going this week about a school with machines old enough to be graduating year eleven!!!

 

Not a fan of the optiplex 3xx series, prefer the 7xx, but the i5 is decent, the 4GB ram will do, it's be better of with 6 or 8 if you use a 64 bit image.

And yes an SSD would give them a whole new lease of life. the size you require will depends on the size of your image and what local storage you use. Most of my customers take a 120GB but 240GB drives are being sold more and more often nowadays

 

Your hardware will work perfectly on windows ten as it is, I've set up hundreds of machines to use W10 with specs identical to this.

 

A dedicated graphics card may help with some of the 3d stuff you're talking about, but a semi-decent one is fairly cheap. £25-40 should get you a perfectly serviceable card.

 

In short. Those PCs are decent and a few minor upgrades would have them performing better than ever before. No need to replace them!

Edited April 27, 2018 by ICTDirect_Dave
Spelling 'have' correctly

[localzuk]

Personally, if you've not got much money, I'd do the following:

 

Upgrade the RAM to 8GB. Stick an SSD in each.

 

That's pretty much it. They've got at least another couple years in them IMO. I mean, I run an i5-2550k at home with Windows 10, which is the same generation, and it is a perfectly capable CPU - able to run even the toughest of software (I'm a *very* heavy user).

 

The spec you list is quite beefy now really. And you're looking at £450 a machine for that spec, and that's with a cheap brand like Zoostorm. Personally, I have switched desktop purchases over to i3s now, as we simply don't need the extra power of the i5. Can drop the price by a good £50 doing that, probably more.

 

One thing I would say - you really don't need dedicated graphics if buying new. Intel onboard is superb now for school use. If the upgrades suggested don't do enough for the robot stuff and 3d stuff, you can get cheap 1GB cards for £20 each that would do the job.

Edited April 27, 2018 by localzuk

[ReBoot]

I'm running Windows 10 Education on OptiPlex 380s with Dual Core processors and 2GB RAM (no dedicated grahics card) and standard hard drives. No problem building software for Windows 10 and they perform well for most common applications. Obviously they may have limitations for more game oriented applications such as Kodu or Minecraft but they manage the basics well.

 

What your technician is suggesting is quite a high (and expensive spec.). I don't believe there would be an issue running Windows 10 on your existing hardware. If the 380 is good for Windows 10 the later 390 shouldn't have a problem.

 

First thing I would do is install Windows 10 on a reference machine to evaluate performance and check drivers are available.

 

I would be 99% sure there would be no issues with Windows 10 on your hardware.

[Sonic007]

The question that needs to be asked is what are they going to be used for? If only for creating Word Documents, Publisher an dPowerpoints, and the odd bit of web browsing then you dont need half the spec of what has been quoted.

Do you have network storage or do you need the SSD's? You could have cheaper drives and save to network.

Basic onboard graphics will be fine for most applications too.

[Rob_D]

I agree with everyone else. Upgrade your Ram and stick in an SSD (120gb should be fine, unless you have a massive image,I wouldn't go smaller), and they'll run fine.

 

In fact we just upgraded our oldest pcs to ones running i5-2400's @ 3.1 ghz (with 8gb of ram and an SSD), and they fly along fine on windows 10.

[ReBoot]

I agree with everyone else. Upgrade your Ram and stick in an SSD (120gb should be fine, unless you have a massive image,I wouldn't go smaller), and they'll run fine.

 

In fact we just upgraded our oldest pcs to ones running i5-2400's @ 3.1 ghz (with 8gb of ram and an SSD), and they fly along fine on windows 10.

 

Agree on SSD size. 250GB is overkill and a waste of money if your workstations are redirecting folders to a server. I ran many Windows 7 machines using 40GB SSDs with no capacity issues.

 

64GB should do for most Windows 10 installations and if you want some extra headroom 80 or 120GB will do the job. Capacity makes a big difference to SSD pricing so install what you need and no more.

[sparkeh]

Got to agree with above, no need to replace that spec, you will be fine with win 10.

 

Again, an SSD upgrade would be a great investment. Personally I think 120gb is a good balance of price and space. And I wouldn’t be that concerned about RAM upgrade, I mean more is always nice but if you are strapped for cash I think that the SSD is your priority.

[FN-GM]

It doesn't always make sense to keep old machines. Sell them and get something new. Keeping old machines you have loads to replace some time in the future all in one go. Having a bit of both is good.

[markwilfan]

I think the op is saying don't go for 7th gen as it won't run win 7 and have no migration plan yet.

 

I agree with everyone else though. SSD and ram. I use an i3 2nd gen at work. Does all I need at a quick enough speed. No point upgrading yet.

[rshortland]

I would agree with everyone else in that an SSD upgrade either 120 if your image size is small enough and a RAM upgrade to 8GB will give them a whole new lease of lifeand they will run Windows 10 just fine.

 

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using EduGeek mobile app

[MartinT]

We put 250GB SSDs and at least 4GB RAM in every machine. It works very well with W10 that seems to go into turbo mode with SSDs. Nothing should ever be saved locally, it should all redirect to network folders, so the space is fine even for 100 user profiles.

[gaz350b]

If your not going to replace the pc yet and go the upgrade option....... invest in some nice monitors. We have dell 23inch screens on all our pcs as standard and this has made a big difference. Plenty of room for dual applications on screen at once.

 

I did this as part of our last refresh cycle with the plans of not needing to replace them next time!

[mukz]

We are still using the 390s same spec with a 250gb ssd. Working great and definitely working on Windows 10. We also have the 745,755 and 760 running perfectly fine too.

[Katy]

I've just replaced some 2nd gen i3s with new PCs, but the old i3s got SSDs and new monitors and in turn replaced some 10 year old core 2 duos. The spec you've already got still have plenty of life in them once they've had SSDs installed.

[jbreality]

Thanks everyone for all of the advice ... much appreciated. It sounds like the best plan is to upgrade the RAM and get some 250GB SSD installed - now just to convince the technician and company that we get ICT support through! Will also look into graphics cards so we can run some of the software that seems to be failing at the moment.

We do save to network servers but 250GB would give us a bit more leeway.

Budget wise we have allocated up to £13000 to redo the suite, less than we used last time to do it but it sounds like we will have enough to do those changes. My only slight issue would be I don't know how long it will be until we get some money again to redo it so needs to last a good few years.

Thanks again all.

[mukz]

5k would be too much as well.

To prove your case buy one as a test and show them

[FN-GM]

Keeping machines is all well and good but you won't be getting hardware level security updates. For example for the recent Intel vulnerability. You pay for all the upgrades and end up with machines with a hole in its security.

[strawberry]

Thanks everyone for all of the advice ... much appreciated. It sounds like the best plan is to upgrade the RAM and get some 250GB SSD installed - now just to convince the technician and company that we get ICT support through! Will also look into graphics cards so we can run some of the software that seems to be failing at the moment.

We do save to network servers but 250GB would give us a bit more leeway.

Budget wise we have allocated up to £13000 to redo the suite, less than we used last time to do it but it sounds like we will have enough to do those changes. My only slight issue would be I don't know how long it will be until we get some money again to redo it so needs to last a good few years.

Thanks again all.

 

Saving to local machines is not an option for obvious reasons.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Thanks everyone for all of the advice ... much appreciated. It sounds like the best plan is to upgrade the RAM and get some 250GB SSD installed - now just to convince the technician and company that we get ICT support through! Will also look into graphics cards so we can run some of the software that seems to be failing at the moment.

We do save to network servers but 250GB would give us a bit more leeway.

Budget wise we have allocated up to £13000 to redo the suite, less than we used last time to do it but it sounds like we will have enough to do those changes. My only slight issue would be I don't know how long it will be until we get some money again to redo it so needs to last a good few years.

Thanks again all.

 

Rough guide to costs.

 

240GB SSD with 3.5" caddy - £46(ish)

4GB 10600U Memory - £18(ish)

Optional GFX Card - £30 (ish)

 

Total - £94 per machine

Total Suite - £2,914

 

That's a massive saving vs buying new.

 

With those dells, the most likely thing to fail in them would be the PSU, they're about £30 each on the market so buy a couple of those in against any possible failures and you'll be just fine.

 

Finally, this IT support company who manage your PCs, if its your money they're spending on replacements, then surely just tell them this is the way you want to do it? You've done the research amongst a group of experts and the common suggestion is limited upgrades will be just fine. I'd put your foot down with this one

Keeping machines is all well and good but you won't be getting hardware level security updates. For example for the recent Intel vulnerability. You pay for all the upgrades and end up with machines with a hole in its security.

Unlikely to be a problem for long. Like HP Dell seem to be planning to backdate to 2nd gen core i any patches for the CPU vulnerability over time. In the meantime it's only a vulnerability if your machine is compromised in the first place.

[FN-GM]

Rough guide to costs.

 

240GB SSD with 3.5" caddy - £46(ish)

4GB 10600U Memory - £18(ish)

Optional GFX Card - £30 (ish)

 

Total - £94 per machine

Total Suite - £2,914

 

That's a massive saving vs buying new.

 

With those dells, the most likely thing to fail in them would be the PSU, they're about £30 each on the market so buy a couple of those in against any possible failures and you'll be just fine.

 

Finally, this IT support company who manage your PCs, if its your money they're spending on replacements, then surely just tell them this is the way you want to do it? You've done the research amongst a group of experts and the common suggestion is limited upgrades will be just fine. I'd put your foot down with this one

 

Unlikely to be a problem for long. Like HP Dell seem to be planning to backdate to 2nd gen core i any patches for the CPU vulnerability over time. In the meantime it's only a vulnerability if your machine is compromised in the first place.

Bit if there is something else in the future it could be vulnerable again.

[sparkeh]

Bit if there is something else in the future it could be vulnerable again.

Sure, but that applies to any of us, even with brand spanking new hardware you could be vulnerable to an unknown threat. You can't base purchase decision on this else you would never buy anything.