Choosing a car: Diesel v Petrol

[crc-ict]

Financially, probably do-able if that offer is common. Unfortunately charging is insurmountable with the current infrastructure. Also, what are they made from? Mme LeMarchand is leaning towards something along the lines of a Humvee to protect precious baby cargo.

 

I think I'd have some safety concerns. Having seen videos on YouTube of what happens to a punctured phone battery, I'm not sure I'd want to sit my children above 200-odd kgs of Li-ion batteries just waiting to be ruptured in a serious crash! I know sense says it's no worse than 50 litres of petrol, but something just sits uncomfortably with me.

Edited October 12, 2017 by crc-ict

[NB9457]

I think I'd have some safety concerns. Having seen videos on YouTube of what happens to a punctured phone battery, I'm not sure I'd want to sit my children above 200-odd kgs of Li-ion batteries just waiting to be ruptured in a serious crash! I know sense says it's no worse than 50 litres of petrol, but something just sits uncomfortably with me.

 

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/nissan/leaf/10939

[casey]

I think I'd have some safety concerns. Having seen videos on YouTube of what happens to a punctured phone battery, I'm not sure I'd want to sit my children above 200-odd kgs of Li-ion batteries just waiting to be ruptured in a serious crash! I know sense says it's no worse than 50 litres of petrol, but something just sits uncomfortably with me.

 

I followed a thread over on Speak EV about the owner of a Tesla Model X (I know, lottery win money for most of us!) who was involved in an accident which wrote the MX off.

 

It was hit from the side so hard that the alloy wheel shattered like a plastic wheel cover and the 2 and a half ton X was spun right around. Luckily no injuries, but the SWMBO of the Model X driver is absolutely adamant that she won't transport her child in any other vehicle.

 

I know it might be marketing hype but Tesla often tout the Model X as one of the safest cars "In the world" (Insert your own Clarkson impression here).

 

Anyway back on topic, I still don't think that the OP is going to find an EV cheap/economical/practical enough at the moment. In a couple of years maybe, but not yet.

 

Although I am very happy with my Renault Zoe and it is ideal for my particular usage I still find it a little restrictive on the rare occasion when I want to travel further afield due to range, I will be looking seriously at the latest, longer range, Zoe and the new Nissan Leaf when my PCP is up.

[Theblacksheep]

I followed a thread over on Speak EV about the owner of a Tesla Model X (I know, lottery win money for most of us!) who was involved in an accident which wrote the MX off.

 

It was hit from the side so hard that the alloy wheel shattered like a plastic wheel cover and the 2 and a half ton X was spun right around. Luckily no injuries, but the SWMBO of the Model X driver is absolutely adamant that she won't transport her child in any other vehicle.

 

I know it might be marketing hype but Tesla often tout the Model X as one of the safest cars "In the world" (Insert your own Clarkson impression here).

 

Anyway back on topic, I still don't think that the OP is going to find an EV cheap/economical/practical enough at the moment. In a couple of years maybe, but not yet.

 

Although I am very happy with my Renault Zoe and it is ideal for my particular usage I still find it a little restrictive on the rare occasion when I want to travel further afield due to range, I will be looking seriously at the latest, longer range, Zoe and the new Nissan Leaf when my PCP is up.

 

The X has the highest safety rating in every US safety category (and sub category) and the lowest probability injury of any SUV they've tested.

 

The 3 looks like it hasn't cut any corners on safety either.

 

The 200 mile Zoe is quite tempting!

Edited October 12, 2017 by Theblacksheep

[crc-ict]

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/nissan/leaf/10939

 

While they are the only benchmark we have to go on, like all tests of this type, the scores only relate to the exact types of collision that they simulate, and good scores can be designed for without necessarily raising the safety of whole item. There are instances of people dying in Euro Ncap 5 star cars in collisions that tests simply do not represent.

 

I have seen examples of analysis of lower-end motorcycle helmets which score well in tests because they are reinforced in the specific areas that the tests concentrate on, and are almost made of fresh air in untested areas.

 

Surely these tests will have to evolve to properly evaluate the additional and differing risks as new technology advances - for example risks of electrocution from severed cables from 200+ volt battery packs etc.

[zag]

This is only the beginning:

 

Council plans to start phasing out polluting vehicles including taxis, cars and buses from city centre area in 2020

Petrol and diesels vehicles will be banned from Oxford city centre under plans to bring in what officials believe would be the world’s first zero-emissions zone.

The proposals aim to slash air pollution in the historic university city, which has seen levels of the harmful pollutant nitrogen dioxide rise above legal limits in some areas.

Under the plans being put out for consultation on Monday, the ban would be introduced in phases, starting with preventing non-zero-emitting taxis, cars, light commercial vehicles and buses from using a small number of streets in 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/11/oxford-aims-to-cut-air-pollution-car-ban-zero-emissions-zone

 

As I said earlier, you would be mad to buy a petrol or diesel car today, whatever your budget. It will just cost you more in the long run.

 

2020 is only 26 months away

Edited October 12, 2017 by zag

[sted]

This is only the beginning:

Council plans to start phasing out polluting vehicles including taxis, cars and buses from city centre area in 2020

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/11/oxford-aims-to-cut-air-pollution-car-ban-zero-emissions-zone

As I said earlier, you would be mad to buy a petrol or diesel car today, whatever your budget. It will just cost you more in the long run.

2020 is only 26 months away

i disagree still it still costs me less to run my 1.6 turbo petrol than to replace it with a leaf say the leasing costs are more than what i spend in fuel range is still an issue and the cheapest leaf i can see on autotrader is 7k (ish) and you still probably have to pay battery lease on that. yes in the future electric cars may be the best option we arnt there yet and just in terms of infrastructure i dont see the investment needed in the next 5 years happening.

 

as to oxford if its like most cities you dont want to drive in them anyway just use park and ride problem basically solved

[3s-gtech]

As I said earlier, you would be mad to buy a petrol or diesel car today, whatever your budget. It will just cost you more in the long run.

 

You must mean '...when buying new'. Second hand, there's simply no way that equates.

[LeMarchand]

This is only the beginning:

 

Council plans to start phasing out polluting vehicles including taxis, cars and buses from city centre area in 2020

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/11/oxford-aims-to-cut-air-pollution-car-ban-zero-emissions-zone

 

As I said earlier, you would be mad to buy a petrol or diesel car today, whatever your budget. It will just cost you more in the long run.

 

2020 is only 26 months away

 

I read about Oxford. It's 6 streets in 2020 - assuming they get the infrastructure in, and we all know how often these public works complete on time...

[just_david]

I read about Oxford. It's 6 streets in 2020 - assuming they get the infrastructure in, and we all know how often these public works complete on time...

Isn't the center of oxford mroe or less pedestrian/bus only anyway?

 

I know my missus got a ticket there as she got lost and turned down a bus lane.

[GuyJD]

Isn't the center of oxford mroe or less pedestrian/bus only anyway?

 

I know my missus got a ticket there as she got lost and turned down a bus lane.

yeah I thought it was just public transport and pushbikes.

 

Didn't top gear have a race to somewhere in the centre of Oxford and had all sorts of issues with the roads because of it?

Edited October 12, 2017 by GuyJD

[sted]

yeah I thought it was just public transport and pushbikes.

Didn't top gear have a race to somewhere in the centre of Oxford and had all sorts of issues with the roads because of it?

i wouldnt take top gear as a serious source of information it was probably over played for entertainment

[GuyJD]

i wouldnt take top gear as a serious source of information it was probably over played for entertainment

What!?! How very dare you say such a thing.

[sted]

What!?! How very dare you say such a thing.

fair enough its not even entertaining

[crc-ict]

This is only the beginning:

 

Council plans to start phasing out polluting vehicles including taxis, cars and buses from city centre area in 2020

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/11/oxford-aims-to-cut-air-pollution-car-ban-zero-emissions-zone

 

As I said earlier, you would be mad to buy a petrol or diesel car today, whatever your budget. It will just cost you more in the long run.

 

2020 is only 26 months away

 

I'm sorry, but anyone who actually thinks that electric cars are a realistic and viable option for the majority of average people are living in cloud-cuckoo land.

 

Yes, it's a nice idea, and dare I say hobby-horse, for environmentalists, but those of us living in the real world can see it'll never work until the technology improves **much, much** more.

 

I can fill my car with diesel in 5 minutes and then travel for 600 miles. With an electric car, I'd be lucky to get 200 miles from a 60 minute 'refuel'. And in the likely scenario that I couldn't find a fast charger, that'd be more like 12 hours.

 

Until we get serious advances in battery and charger tech, they are only ever going to be suitable for short, city journeys or an interesting curio.

[mavhc]

i disagree still it still costs me less to run my 1.6 turbo petrol than to replace it with a leaf say the leasing costs are more than what i spend in fuel range is still an issue and the cheapest leaf i can see on autotrader is 7k (ish) and you still probably have to pay battery lease on that. yes in the future electric cars may be the best option we arn't there yet and just in terms of infrastructure i dont see the investment needed in the next 5 years happening.

 

 

I see a £5295 battery owned one, 2011

2012: £5795

2014: 6195 for lowest level trim

 

What would be helpful is if autotrader etc had fields for battery size, remaining capacity, lease of battery status, charging rate etc.

[casey]

There seems to be quite a polarisation of opinion between the 'EV brigade' and the 'petrol (and diesel) heads' here.

 

The truth is that EV's won't work at the moment for many people, especially those with no off street parking therefore they wouldn't 'be mad' to go for an ICE car now.

 

However there are a lot of people who say EV's will never work for them but then go on to quote 'facts' which are patently wrong.

 

I am lucky enough to have a drive and can charge my car from empty to full in about 3 and a half hours, if I get a new Zoe or the new 40kwh Leaf it will take about twice as long but I'd only charge half as often. And if you charge overnight you can take advantage of off peak electricity and drive off with a full 'tank' every morning.

 

In the summer I hired a Model S for a week and as well as charging at various Superchargers around the country I was also able to charge at home, it was slower but when you're asleep it hardly makes any difference. Also the range of something like a Tesla means you just drive it like any other car, 'range anxiety', for me at least, didn't exist. I know they are a very expensive car but battery sizes of more affordable vehicles are increasing all the time.

 

The other thing is unless you have an EV you are far less likely to notice the chargers that are about. People at my work ask me where I charge and when I say any one of the dozen or more around Plymouth city centre and local park and rides they are amazed there are any here. (I usually only charge when I park in the city because the bays are bigger and there's less chance of 'parking scars').

[MkII]

When my Zoe goes back in December this year I'm swapping to an ICE car. The deals aren't so good... £250 a month for admittedly double the range, but I can get a C300 Merc for just shy of £200 per month, and I won't spend £50 a month on petrol.

 

Buying my Zoe isn't an economic option... £5600 plus £90 a month for the battery. £3000 to upgrade the battery if I wanted to plus the damn £90pm on top of that. A far cry from the £134pm all in, no deposit on this Zoe. My wall charger will be wasted.

 

Favourite is 2nd hand ICE. Will see what's around when the time comes. Like to cart stuff around occasionally so don't like a new car. Freedom to do longer trips when I want. 22 mile daily commute so thinking Diesel.

Edited October 12, 2017 by MkII

[casey]

When my Zoe goes back in December this year I'm swapping to an ICE car. The deals aren't so good... £250 a month for admittedly double the range, but I can get a C300 Merc for just shy of £200 per month, and I won't spend £50 a month on petrol.

 

Buying my Zoe isn't an economic option... £5600 plus £90 a month for the battery. £3000 to upgrade the battery if I wanted to plus the damn £90pm on top of that. A far cry from the £134pm all in, no deposit on this Zoe. My wall charger will be wasted.

 

Favourite is 2nd hand ICE. Will see what's around when the time comes. Like to cart stuff around occasionally so don't like a new car. Freedom to do longer trips when I want. 22 mile daily commute so thinking Diesel.

 

I know what you mean abouth the costs of new EV's. A lot of people got Zoes and Leafs (Leaves?) at artificially low prices because of unrealistic GFVs through the PCPs they were offered.

 

But having driven an EV for nearly 18 months I would hate to go back to an ICE car. So as long as I can afford it I will be sticking with some sort of EV even if it isn't as economical as other cars.

 

I guess I'll be like those people who buy enormous 4X4s and only drive short distances on paved roads, a bit silly but that's what I prefer.

[mavhc]

Hopefully the government will get on with installing these lamp post chargers with that subsidy I posted about.

 

It's not for everyone yet, true, it is for way more people than people think though. At least 1 car of every house with 2 cars should be electric for a start. That's 1/3rd of households. The other 43% with 1 car are more complex, I guess half of them need lamp post charging at home. Also need incentives for workplace charging.

[just_david]

Hopefully the government will get on with installing these lamp post chargers with that subsidy I posted about.

 

It's not for everyone yet, true, it is for way more people than people think though. At least 1 car of every house with 2 cars should be electric for a start. That's 1/3rd of households. The other 43% with 1 car are more complex, I guess half of them need lamp post charging at home. Also need incentives for workplace charging.

 

how'd you get that 1 car of every house being electric though?

 

A Leccy car isn't suitable for either me or my wife (till a reliable 200m+ range comes in that is, on a car thats 3 years old (we never buy new))

 

Electric cars won't be viable till we have that 3 figure range and quick charging times, and a decent charging network that isn't just limited to city centers.

 

Not all houses are suitable for chargers either, some don't have room, a lot don't have bays near the house (thats a whole different rant though)

 

plug in hybrids though, don't get why they haven't had better take up. no range anxiety and zero emissions on a heck of a lot of trips.

[mavhc]

how'd you get that 1 car of every house being electric though?

 

A Leccy car isn't suitable for either me or my wife (till a reliable 200m+ range comes in that is, on a car thats 3 years old (we never buy new))

Fair enough if you both drive 200 miles per day, but that's not 95% of people with 2 cars. Hmm, 2014 you say... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201709089096912

 

Electric cars won't be viable till we have that 3 figure range and quick charging times, and a decent charging network that isn't just limited to city centers.

The fast chargers are usually at motorway service stations, all the new ones are 3 figures.

 

plug in hybrids though, don't get why they haven't had better take up. no range anxiety and zero emissions on a heck of a lot of trips.

 

Plug in hybrids only really started being sold in 2012, so not a lot of cheap used versions around yet.

 

We need a new poll: Electric or Plug in Hybrid?

[mikeprice]

Had a look at the charging stations near me

 

Basically 1 station here another there

 

which is fine if you are the only one to turn up - but if you turn up with naff all charge left and someone has just plugged in and gone off shopping for the 20 mins it takes to charge then you are left sitting there (in a pay-and display car park) for 20 mins (or more) until they come back

 

It's OK waiting in a queue of 2-3 in a petrol station as each fill up only takes a few mins - but if it takes 20 mins a queue is more of a problem

[MkII]

I get this for Widnes Cheshire:

 

NEARBY POINTS

Bristol Street Motors - Widnes 0.29 mi

Church Street 1.58 mi

Shopping City 2.97 mi

Lea Green Station 4.3 mi

Premier Inn - Runcorn 4.67 mi

Liverpool John Lennon Airport 5.12 mi

Cyprus Steet Car Park, Prescot 5.15 mi

Asda Westbrook 5.39 mi

Renault Dealership: Arnold Clark Automobiles 5.44 mi

Best Western Forest Hills Hotel 5.46 mi

 

Supply follows demand. Suppliers can easily and quickly roll out more, when it's needed they will.

 

ICE cars block charging points too. If you're stuck you can phone the network and they'll guide you to the nearest point according to your remaining charge.

[sted]

but here my issue with some of the placements

car parks in city centre fine makes sense as does hotels, airports and service stations on the motorway i can even understand why they have them at ikea but asda etc dosent make sense to me most people go to their local supermarket shouldnt really require any sort of top up and im going to guess if youre on the m62 say you dont want to divert to a supermarket to charge when you are just passing the area as yo will have naff all to do while you wait